[Techno Kid]

The HE-400 isn't that hard to power and that's why with all these people saying an amp like the Valhalla doesn't have the power to push them good doesn't sound right imo.  My little C&C BH does a fine job pushing them and pretty efficiently also.  I know the Asgard 2 I ordered will work great with the HE-400 and I'm looking forward to hearing them and pair with my Colorfly C3 should make them sound even better.  I really want to get the CK4 which has better sound quality and it actually has a good sized screen.

 

[beaver316]

With more dynamic music like classical which is mastered quieter you're going to struggle to get to comfortable listening levels, even from the relatively efficient HE400.

 

[Techno Kid]

I really only listen to EDM like techno, progressive and trance and all they're sub-genres so I don't need such a clinical amp though there's nothing wrong with them, I really like something with a bit of flavor but I also like amps like the O2 that have a relatively flat frequency response.

 

[modulor]

Quote:

Then why don't people just these are fine unamped? Cuz they really are? Or do they start to scale with higher equipment? Are E17/Audinst not good enough?

Those will certainly provide adequate power levels because of the HE-400's efficiency, no doubt....but all orthos do benefit from more power.  Those are great choices to start off with because they are compact, all in once devices.

 

[Ohnoitztotoro]

Quote:

The HE-400 isn't that hard to power and that's why with all these people saying an amp like the Valhalla doesn't have the power to push them good doesn't sound right imo.  My little C&C BH does a fine job pushing them and pretty efficiently also.  I know the Asgard 2 I ordered will work great with the HE-400 and I'm looking forward to hearing them and pair with my Colorfly C3 should make them sound even better.  I really want to get the CK4 which has better sound quality and it actually has a good sized screen.

I can't speak for the valhalla but I know that not all amps can power the HE-400 as well as people may hope.  These headphones are definitely easier to drive in the sense that it will sound better connected to my computer versus other demanding headphones (still sounds not so good though). However I tried running these through a Little Dot MkII and remember being very underwhelmed because I would have to set the volume quite high and even then the sound seemed quite weak. After about a week or two I started to get use to the weaker sound and kept thinking this was just the way the sound signature was. I was very wrong though. 
 
I bought a vintage Marantz receiver a while later and realized that the HE-400 was definitely not being powered correctly from the little dot after plugging it into the Marantz. Sounded much better and the bass sounded as great as advertised. I had no clue what people were talking about when they discussed how good the bass was until I had these plugged into a different amp. So while I don't know much about the Valhalla, I can see how some people may say it doesn't power it well. It may drive it like my Little Dot amp did but  perhaps the sound still comes out weak through that amp.  

 

[Luic]

Quote:

I can't speak for the valhalla but I know that not all amps can power the HE-400 as well as people may hope.  These headphones are definitely easier to drive in the sense that it will sound better connected to my computer versus other demanding headphones (still sounds not so good though). However I tried running these through a Little Dot MkII and remember being very underwhelmed because I would have to set the volume quite high and even then the sound seemed quite weak. After about a week or two I started to get use to the weaker sound and kept thinking this was just the way the sound signature was. I was very wrong though. 
 
I bought a vintage Marantz receiver a while later and realized that the HE-400 was definitely not being powered correctly from the little dot after plugging it into the Marantz. Sounded much better and the bass sounded as great as advertised. I had no clue what people were talking about when they discussed how good the bass was until I had these plugged into a different amp. So while I don't know much about the Valhalla, I can see how some people may say it doesn't power it well. It may drive it like my Little Dot amp did but  perhaps the sound still comes out weak through that amp.  

 
Haha, I almost had the same exact experience as you, except my starting amplifier wasn't as nice as the Little Dot. Plugged my HE-400's into my roommate's setup with a receiver a few days ago, and it was so much livelier and fun sounding, especially with the improved bass. Hopefully the Project Sunrise II amp I ordered will go well with it.

 

[chewy4]

Quote:

The HE-400 isn't that hard to power and that's why with all these people saying an amp like the Valhalla doesn't have the power to push them good doesn't sound right imo.  

Just to let you know, Schiit is included with those people. Read the Valhalla's FAQ.
 
Due to their low impedance(which is actually about 50Ohms based on Innerfidelity measurements), they require more current to get to volume, rather than high impedance headphones that need more voltage. The Valhalla apparently doesn't have a lot of current, so its wattage into 50 Ohms is probably pretty low.

 

[Techno Kid]

I already bought the Asgard 2 so I'm done with the Schiit but I think I'm going to maybe get the Woo Audio WA6 also because I got my tax return today or I'm going to get one of the other headphones I want.  I might just cancel the Schiit order and just get the Woo WA6.

 

[M-13]

Lots of interesting discussions about amping. Just wanted to mention that Asgard 2 is pure class A, which means it runs at max current all the time. Other amps might offer more Watts (AB, not Pure A), but it's usually the first Watt that counts the most when it comes to sound quality. Or at least that's what I've gathered.
 
I only mention this because I'm also thinking about going Asgard 2, and I just wanted to share what I've learned from my research. I'm not an authority on this subject or anything of course. About a year ago my thought process was always thinking about more watts to feed my orthos, (which is why I got the Lyr, most watts per $ at the time) but now I'm thinking more about the quality of the current and the transparency of the amp.
 
Edit: also the Agard 2 has 80v rails and does 30volts peak to peak? I think Schiit could have easily made it give out 2~3 watts into 32ohms, but they decided to limit the current so they can run it at Class A with lots of headroom and transparency

 

[TexasBuck]

Quote:

I thought I was finished buying headphones after getting the Grado 325is. I guess I was wrong. I really want to try the he-400 out.

I used to own the Grado 325is but sold them after getting the HE-400.  You will already be used to the treble spike that some complain about so you'll likely love the HE-400.  Much more full sound, much better separation, better sound stage, better bass, even more detail.  The HE-400 do most of what the Grado's do well but don't have most of the weaknesses.  The Grado 325is has more pronounced mids and a little better bass impact.  Otherwise, everything favors the HE-400.

 

[Marleybob217]

Oh god, please stop me.
 
I just read someone commenting on the plastic-y mids of the HE-400 compared to the lcd2. And thought this might have something to to with the plastic frame of the HE400.
 
What if, we tried to cover the inner circle of the plastic with something non reflective. I'm willing to take the plunge, suggest some materials to me?

 

[TMRaven]

I can assure you they're not plasticy mids compared to the LCD2.

 

[davidsh]

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They're pretty quiet unamped.

Quiet you say? I get more than enough volume using my iphone 4 with the HE-500.

 

[Marleybob217]

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I can assure you they're not plasticy mids compared to the LCD2.

Well darn my ocd, the headphone has been taken apart and I'm trying it with paper...
 
Edit: I just finished the right driver, and I'm comparing the two drivers by panning all the way to the left and right. This isn't a very reliable way of comparing, but it's the only fast A-B testing that's possible. So far the modded cup has a lot less treble, and sounds a bit clearer, however I've earlier noticed a slight driver inbalance, that and I'm listening to a stereo recording...
 
So time to finish the next cup.

 

[jay567]

Quote:

Hifiman says they're fine unamped.    And quite honestly, I get enough volume out of them with an iPod at 3/4 or 4/5 volume for nearly all of my songs.
 
 
In all honestly, it's a matter of how critical and trained your listening is.  I remember a year or two back when I got the DT990 600ohm and was expecting a good change coming from my iMac's onboard to a little dot mkii plus hrt music streamer ii, I was very underwhelmed when I didn't hear much of a difference.
 
Fast forward-- after many critical listening sessions done between headphones and whatnot, I was listening to my AD700 through my iMac's onboard for weeks (I had my other gear out on loan to a friend).  When I received the Schiit Magni/Modi in the mail and plugged the AD700 into them, I could hear a difference right off the bat, and while I wouldn't call it night and day, it wasn't subtle either.  Also keep in mind that AD700 aren't very refined headphones to begin with.  The main difference was just how much more clear and resolving the Schiit stack was in the treble region.
 
Was this because the Schit stack was leagues better than the Litlte Dot and Music Streamer?  The near 0 impedance of the Magni probably helped a bit, but my bet is that they were all probably all close together in performance.  What had changed was how trained my hearing was.
 
 
On a fundamental level, this is what the hobby is centered around-- subtle differences that are all gradually providing more of a refined sound in the end.
 
If anybody thinks a certain headphone or source is WAY better than another, 9 times out of 10 it's because of a different coloration that suits their tastes better, and they're confusing the different coloration with refinement.

Thanks for the great reply.
 
The thing with me is that I do notice differences, but then I feel that brain burn in is the biggest factor when it comes to such suttle differences maybe because I do not have a trained enough ear and over time, the differences are too subtle for me. Only way for me to describe improvements using an amp for HE400 is very similar to when I used an amp on IEMs which is making the music 5% more musical and cohersive which I do appreciate but then again, is rather small and even the Jerg pad mod did more for me...
 
Man in all honesty, I regret spending cash on DAC/AMP for the HE400 lol