[Madmollusk]

Quote:

The HE-400 should be in at any moment.... GAH, the wait! That and my KSC75 to steal the clips off for use with my KSC35.

Edit: Got them in. Why in the hell did I EVER sell these? Dear sweet Jesus, how I missed that holographic sound.
These are considerably more clampy than the last ones I had. Better remedy this tonight.

I think the "holographic sound" is one of the he-400's most outstanding attributes--that and the amazing sub-bass. It's strange though. The he-500's sub-bass and imaging are almost identical to the He-400's (at least tons of A/B comparisons suggest this.) But the he-400's voicing (read "upper mid-range recession') discourages me from ever dwelling on the mid-range, and encourages instead a more bass-centric focus--while exactly the opposite is true of the the he-500. Mysteriously enough, the He-400's voicing also seems to accentuate its holographic imaging. I'm not sure why this might be, but to my ears, the he-400 has a notably more holographic presentation. They are keepers for sure!

 

[Marleybob217]

Quote:

 
It really is amazing how we adjust to the sound. Im not sure if it's my ears, or the drivers loosening up, but wow it sounds absolutely fantastic now. The separation is unreal, bass is really low reaching, highs are well controlled, and male voices sound amazing. 
 
I've had them on now for a while and feel no fatigue what-so-ever. They are really comfy for me too.

I think it's a matter of brain burn in 
 
I actually think brain burn in happens much more often than actual burn in of the drivers.  

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

I think the "holographic sound" is one of the he-400's most outstanding attributes--that and the amazing sub-bass. It's strange though. The he-500's sub-bass and imaging are almost identical to the He-400's (at least tons of A/B comparisons suggest this.) But the he-400's voicing (read "upper mid-range recession') discourages me from ever dwelling on the mid-range, and encourages instead a more bass-centric focus--while exactly the opposite is true of the the he-500. Mysteriously enough, the He-400's voicing also seems to accentuate its holographic imaging. I'm not sure why this might be, but to my ears, the he-400 has a notably more holographic presentation. They are keepers for sure!

It's true. While I believe the HE-4 is superior to the HE-400 in almost everything but bass presence, they do not sound holographic like the HE-400. What kind of voodoo is this?

 

[beaver316]

What exactly is meant by 'holographic sound'? 

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

To me, it's like I'm not wearing headphones (at least compared to other headphones). The sound is very enveloping, and projects around you more than something more typical out of other cans. There is a sense of space around instruments, and presented in more layers and from different locations around you. It ain't exactly virtual surround, but it's still very atypical of headphones.

It's not something as simple as having a large soundstage or imaging. Not easily defined. I've had headphones with huge soundstages (considerably larger than the HE400s), but they still sounded like headphones.

I also feel this one has more bass than my earlier HE-400. Just an early assumption. It will take time to dimiss that or not, but so far, I feel the bass to be very satisfying, where last time, I always wanted just a touch more.

edit: Agh, I think I might have to ask for a replacement. The cup labeled R is louder. 5% louder than the other side. I wear them backwards, and the bass is stronger still on the "right" driver. Same thing if I switch channels on the connectors. The "right" is louder.

It's not by much, but changing the balance on my computer to like 95% right channel, evens it out. It's not the cable, for sure.

I'll give it a few days to see if it persists. Man, I'm not looking forward to being without these again.

 

[Madmollusk]

Quote:

I think it's a matter of brain burn in 
 
I actually think brain burn in happens much more often than actual burn in of the drivers.  

I tend to agree, but scientifically speaking there is some evidence to support driver break-in, and, unfortunately, no evidence (that I know of at least) to support brain burn-in. I think brain-burn in makes a lot of sense, of course, but it would be a rather tricky theory to test, though it could  be done. To further complicate this mystery, some people hear "brun-in" with some headphones but not with other headphones. I would assume if our brains had to acclimate to every new sound-signature, this process of cerebral or emotive acclimation would occur with greater consistency: it doesn't.  Many folks who hear burn-in with headphone A, will not hear burn-in with headphone B, even when the sound-signature in question is sufficiently novel or a-typical. I don't claim to know the truth here, but I think it's wise to keep an open mind either way you look at it. Both camps are making some rather big claims without a lot of evidence to support their respective cases. Brain burn-in, of course, seems more plausible to most folks, but that doesn't necessarily make it true. 

 

[Madmollusk]

Quote:

To me, it's like I'm not wearing headphones (at least compared to other headphones). The sound is very enveloping, and projects around you more than something more typical out of other cans. There is a sense of space around instruments, and presented in more layers and from different locations around you. It ain't exactly virtual surround, but it's still very atypical of headphones.
It's not something as simple as having a large soundstage or imaging. Not easily defined. I've had headphones with huge soundstages (considerably larger than the HE400s), but they still sounded like headphones.

^^^ This is called: hitting the nail on the head! Awesome. ^^^

 

[GTRagnarok]

You guys are making my wait much harder. I would have gotten them on Thursday, but I forgot it's Thanksgiving week. UPS is off on Thursday AND Friday so I have to wait until Monday >_<

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

I wonder if maybe its the pads not being perfectly symmetrical that one side is louder. I'll try swapping the pads and seeing if I still get the imbalance, once I get home. If not I'll ask Hifiman to send me another pair, and refund me once they get this one.

 

[Marleybob217]

Quote:

I tend to agree, but scientifically speaking there is some evidence to support driver break-in, and, unfortunately, no evidence (that I know of at least) to support brain burn-in. I think brain-burn in makes a lot of sense, of course, but it would be a rather tricky theory to test, though it could  be done. To further complicate this mystery, some people hear "brun-in" with some headphones but not with other headphones. I would assume if our brains had to acclimate to every new sound-signature, this process of cerebral or emotive acclimation would occur with greater consistency: it doesn't.  Many folks who hear burn-in with headphone A, will not hear burn-in with headphone B, even when the sound-signature in question is sufficiently novel or a-typical. I don't claim to know the truth here, but I think it's wise to keep an open mind either way you look at it. Both camps are making some rather big claims without a lot of evidence to support their respective cases. Brain burn-in, of course, seems more plausible to most folks, but that doesn't necessarily make it true. 

I know there is some evidence of burn in, that thing tyll did with the akgs a while back.
There is evidence of brain burn in (to a degree) the brain adjusts itself constantly. When someone's ear get damaged, and can only hear about 50%, a couple of weeks later that individual will regain 90% of his hearing capabilities. This is not because the ear heals itself, but because the brain adjusts for the damaged ear. I think this is a pretty extreme case of brain burn in. 
 
Also the 'proven' burn in of the akgs tyll did, were not severe at all looking at the before and after frequency response. The difference could even be caused by a slight misplacing of the headphone on the dummy head. As a scientist I would not call it proven. IF there aren't any other actual experiments.

 

[Marleybob217]

Quote:

To me, it's like I'm not wearing headphones (at least compared to other headphones). The sound is very enveloping, and projects around you more than something more typical out of other cans. There is a sense of space around instruments, and presented in more layers and from different locations around you. It ain't exactly virtual surround, but it's still very atypical of headphones.
It's not something as simple as having a large soundstage or imaging. Not easily defined. I've had headphones with huge soundstages (considerably larger than the HE400s), but they still sounded like headphones.
I also feel this one has more bass than my earlier HE-400. Just an early assumption. It will take time to dimiss that or not, but so far, I feel the bass to be very satisfying, where last time, I always wanted just a touch more.
edit: Agh, I think I might have to ask for a replacement. The cup labeled R is louder. 5% louder than the other side. I wear them backwards, and the bass is stronger still on the "right" driver. Same thing if I switch channels on the connectors. The "right" is louder.
It's not by much, but changing the balance on my computer to like 95% right channel, evens it out. It's not the cable, for sure.
I'll give it a few days to see if it persists. Man, I'm not looking forward to being without these again.

And you have been looking forward to these headphones so much! Good luck!

 

[pdiddypdler]

I know there is some evidence of burn in, that thing tyll did with the akgs a while back.
There is evidence of brain burn in (to a degree) the brain adjusts itself constantly. When someone's ear get damaged, and can only hear about 50%, a couple of weeks later that individual will regain 90% of his hearing capabilities. This is not because the ear heals itself, but because the brain adjusts for the damaged ear. I think this is a pretty extreme case of brain burn in. 

Also the 'proven' burn in of the akgs tyll did, were not severe at all looking at the before and after frequency response. The difference could even be caused by a slight misplacing of the headphone on the dummy head. As a scientist I would not call it proven. IF there aren't any other actual experiments.

+1

Brain acclimatization (burn-in) is very real and is happening all the time, not just with headphones .
Driver burn in on the other hand has been proven to exist but I'm doubtful of the extent that it is noticeable to our ears, I don't think it makes drastic differences to how we hear the music and is vastly overstated on head-fi, IMO.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Driver burn in. That laughable topic of discussion.

Always positive. Burn in adds bass to bass light headphones.
Burn in reduces bass bloat of bassy headphones.
Burn in lifts veils of treble deficient headphones.
Burn in smooths headphones with sharp treble.

In short, it always adds whatever is missing, and takes away whatever is abundant and negative.

This is why this burn in nonsense needs to go away. Yes, drivers do change with use, but those thinking that the change is consistent and always positive needs a reality check.

It is absolute bullsh*t that needs to disappear. There is no magical or even minute change that magically makes a certain headphone better. You hear a difference because you WANT to hear a difference.

Enjoy your damn headphones, and let your ears adjust to them.

 

[pdiddypdler]

Driver burn in. That laughable topic of discussion.
Always positive. Burn in adds bass to bass light headphones.
Burn in reduces bass bloat of bassy headphones.
Burn in lifts veils of treble deficient headphones.
Burn in smooths headphones with sharp treble.
In short, it always adds whatever is missing, and takes away whatever is abundant and negative.
This is why this burn in nonsense needs to go away. Yes, drivers do change with use, but those thinking that the change is consistent and always positive needs a reality check.
It is absolute bullsh*t that needs to disappear. There is no magical or even minute change that magically makes a certain headphone better. You hear a difference because you WANT to hear a difference.
Enjoy your damn headphones, and let your ears adjust to them.

LOL! Very well said.

 

[Mad Lust Envy]

Hmm, so I'm back home. After having swapped the pads and letting it play all night, I can't hear the imbalance. The bass is coming from directly in the center. Dunno what happened, but the imbalance seems to be gone.

Thank god. The bass on these are POTENT. I didn't wanna risk getting another HE400 with less bass. Seriously, the bass is stronger than my last ones. If they had this bass, I would have definitely kept those.

I would say it's the ODAC+SA-31, but even of the E17 alone, the bass is pretty potent.