[automaton]

I have a Kenwood KR- 5150 (c. 1972 I think) that's driving the speakers on my desktop. Didn't even think to try the HE-400 with it, will do some testing against the E-17 that I'm currently using to power them.  I actually have the manual for the Kenwood but can't find anything about how much power the headphone amp has.

 

[Oregonian]

  I have a Kenwood KR- 5150 (c. 1972 I think) that's driving the speakers on my desktop. Didn't even think to try the HE-400 with it, will do some testing against the E-17 that I'm currently using to power them.  I actually have the manual for the Kenwood but can't find anything about how much power the headphone amp has.

You're gonna be amazed how good the HE-400 responds to that amp...................

 

[automaton]

 
You're gonna be amazed how good the HE-400 responds to that amp...................

Hopefully...I've been considering upgrading from the E17 to something a little easier to manage on my desktop.  But if the HE-400 sound good with the Kenwood, I can roll the money into a better DAC-- currently running analog out from an older Creative X-fi Platinum to the Kenwood for speaker output and digital out into the Fiio for headphones.

 

[ultrabike]

   
If you don't like the "HE-400s sound signature characteristics", why own them? Seriously? Also, when you eat chicken in the evening, do you prefer Red Wine or White?

Ummmm, isn't the point that the Asgard one was already producing the volume he wanted the point with the EQ settings he used? Even if he sacrificed half the power going to an O2, he is only giving up another 3 dB or so, hardly a HUGE deal . . . . If he had a good amp already, I wouldn't have bothered "promoting" the O2.
 
Any headphone with low impedance could be described as requiring "more current" . . . how is that helpful in choosing an amp? Hint: Its not. All you need to know is the power output at the rated impedance of the cans, its not rocket science. Claiming "planars require more current" is totally unqualified information and a bit misleading to say the least.
 
Seriously, I think it is time to line up 10 speakers with 10 amps and play with the combinations of impedance, power, and SPLs until the relationship between the factors sink in. Let me know if you can actually hear one thing during your experiment that has anything at all to do with the amp independent of the speakers themselves (maybe a fuse will pop when you wire down to 1 Ohm mono and play a test tone for an hour). In my car, I wired 3 subwoofers (2 identical, 1 of different brand) in series (~12 Ohms mono) and as a result fed the trio maybe 60 watts total. F'in heresy according to all audio wisdom (low power, messed up impedance, etc). If I drop to 4 Ohms mono, I get close to 200 watts, but lose the SPL produced by having 2 other drivers as well as their unique "sound signature". Then I ran two drivers. Where was the "strained bass"? Where was the loss of "dynamics"? Where was the increased noise and distortion? I'll give you a hint - it never came. The only difference was that I could run a single driver close to its limit (hence risking clipping and distortion that might be audible), while I couldn't with less power. Suspension travel (i.e. a mechanical limit) surfaced on the 8 inch driver, while the 10 inch driver was willing to be pushed more. That is about it.
 
Not only is the amp completely unemotional about my choices, but the maximum SPL is approximately the same given the drivers I chose. I get a slight tactile "enhancement" from running the larger drivers, but that is it. There is a very, boring, very utilitarian function that amps must provide. The manufactures labor tirelessly to make you believe that they are not mere "commodities". But guess what . . .

 
Wow. Lots of words there.
 
Every headphone and amp is flawed AFAIK. There is no such thing as a 0% THD with 0% IMD with +/-0dB FR and pretty much 0 error everywhere else. Some things do great in one department, and horrible in another. Some are just compromises here and there.
 
Not every low impedance headphone requires a lot of current. Depends on sensitivity. Planars tend to require more current than dynamics. Now, like we have said, the O2 for most will probably drive the HE-400 fine power wise. But I don't think it pairs well with an HE-400. To me it results in a screamingly dry and lean sounding system. Furthermore, as far as power and equalization is concern, modifications to the FR results in increased dynamic range. That IMO is a consideration.
 
Now I dunno how you awesomized your car rig, but I would not consider car audio conditions optimum to evauate dynamics, strained bass, and whatever not. I also dunno why someone would be looking for an "unemotional", "boring", "utilitarian" amp that all is does is spit SPL. A no-amp grammophone can do that. Not all folks like that mang.

 

[DavidA]

automaton, when I first got my HE-400 I was using a Asus Xonar DG ($29 PCI sound card, Amazon) to drive it.  Sound was pretty good and by setting the DG gain for >64Ohm it was able to get the HE-400s really loud at 50% volume.  Also, the DG control center lets you set different EQ settings for different headphones or if you wanted a flat setting it had a direct mode.  I've since moved on to a bifrost/lyr2/asgard2 setup but my bedroom computer still has the Xonar DG and IMO not a big drop off from the bifrost/lyr2.

 

[Sam21]

There is something I don't understand...Why do people say headphone x requires a lot of current instead of saying it requires a lot of voltage ? after all by ohm's law we have :
 
I = V/R and therefore V = I*R ... so if current increases therefore voltage[V] also increases....[assuming of course that R is a constant, which is in this case]....

 

[automaton]

  automaton, when I first got my HE-400 I was using a Asus Xonar DG ($29 PCI sound card, Amazon) to drive it.  Sound was pretty good and by setting the DG gain for >64Ohm it was able to get the HE-400s really loud at 50% volume.  Also, the DG control center lets you set different EQ settings for different headphones or if you wanted a flat setting it had a direct mode.  I've since moved on to a bifrost/lyr2/asgard2 setup but my bedroom computer still has the Xonar DG and IMO not a big drop off from the bifrost/lyr2.

Thanks, that's helpful.  I've read a few people comment that they noticed a difference going from the X-fi to a higher-end DAC, but don't know how reliable those comments are.  Did some testing on the Kenwood for a little bit, and I'm not sure I can tell much of a difference between it and the E17-- but the Kenwood is using the DAC in the X-fi, while the Fiio is serving as both DAC and amp.  I can max out the volume on the e17, though, without distorting or pumping to ear-splitting volume, and with the Kenwood it becomes too loud to listen to at around 5.  Maybe a Modi 2 would be a good next step?

 

[diamondears]

Ha yes I saw that years ago, not a bad solution (if you can even find one like that). The hex grill is really fancy though, but i'd like to see what other finds are out there.
 You have a point, I thought I heard that the O2 with the gain button on and cranked had noise or distortion issues? Not sure if that's true or not but I do remember being able to bottom out the asgard and hearing no difference or noise compared to low levels.

Only if more than 7Vrms. Because the 6.5x gain is designed for low/1Vrms DACs.

 

[DavidA]

automaton, I also have a modi/magni combo for my lanai gaming system and a Teac AH-01 (dac/amp) for speaker output.  The modi/magni combo was a little bright to me with the HE-400 where the Teac was a little warm.  Using the line out from the Gigabyte mobo (Realtek DAC-ALC889) to the magni gave me the best sound with the HE-400, good bass and smooth highs.  The modi/magni is a great match for my X1, L1 and SRH-1840.  I haven't tried the E-17 since I use a V-Moda XS or Momentum on-ear/over-ear when I want to take my music out but I feel that the Magni would make a  bigger difference in the sound of the HE-400, not the DAC, just my 2 cents.
Check out this link: http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/high-end-pc-audio,3733.html
Interesting article I found awhile ago when I was still really into building computer systems.

 

[ultrabike]

  There is something I don't understand...Why do people say headphone x requires a lot of current instead of saying it requires a lot of voltage ? after all by ohm's law we have :
 
I = V/R and therefore V = I*R ... so if current increases therefore voltage[V] also increases....[assuming of course that R is a constant, which is in this case]....

 
Like you said, it depends on the R and planars don't have a ton of it.
 
You can add to that the fact that many planars are not that sensitive. Granted, the HE-400 is on the sensitive side of planars, but not all of them are.

 

[ultrabike]

Only if more than 7Vrms. Because the 6.5x gain is designed for low/1Vrms DACs.

 
Dude, how many Vrms you are going to get out of the O2 proly depends on the wall wart... right?

 

[diamondears]

Dude, how many Vrms you are going to get out of the O2 proly depends on the wall wart... right?

I'm assuming wall wart used is the prescribed one.

 

[Currawong]

Guys, if you wish to discuss the O2, please do so in the threads about it. I'm getting complains about the thread being continually derailed too far into discussions about DACs and amps. 

 

[ultrabike]

K

 

[diamondears]

Guys, if you wish to discuss the O2, please do so in the threads about it. I'm getting complains about the thread being continually derailed too far into discussions about DACs and amps. 

An HE-400 owner asked about it. Complaints? Definitely not me! O2 ruffling some feathers?