HiFiMAN HE-4 vs. HIFIMAN HE-400

[Grado77]

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[labratoire]

It seems I can't get rid of D5000 & HE-400

. Most guys here recommend them in my price range (and even many guys prefer them to the more expensive HE-500 and D7000).

But again when I'm sure enough about buying HE-400, a kind guy says take a look at DT880 or Q701 or HD600, they are much more accurate and detailed than HE-400 or D5000 which are a little bit fun sounding and It makes me to read and ask more and more.

 

[WiR3D]

It seems I can't get rid of D5000 & HE-400

. Most guys here recommend them in my price range (and even many guys prefer them to the more expensive HE-500 and D7000).

But again when I'm sure enough about buying HE-400, a kind guy says take a look at DT880 or Q701 or HD600, they are much more accurate and detailed than HE-400 or D5000 which are a little bit fun sounding and It makes me to read and ask more and more.

I'm a bit of a Denon fan, the D5000 is the bassiest and the smoothest in the range apparently. I still haven't decided on my feelings of the d7k versus my d2k. But one thing is for sure they are both euphoric and both are fun. And I will definitely recommend, but a good dac will do wonders.

Sent from my HTC HD2 using Tapatalk 2

 

[jerg]

Quote:

It seems I can't get rid of D5000 & HE-400

. Most guys here recommend them in my price range (and even many guys prefer them to the more expensive HE-500 and D7000).

But again when I'm sure enough about buying HE-400, a kind guy says take a look at DT880 or Q701 or HD600, they are much more accurate and detailed than HE-400 or D5000 which are a little bit fun sounding and It makes me to read and ask more and more.

 
Not really. It's just different sound signatures. The other ones are more treble-happy and "seem" more detailed but really aren't (except HD600 which is more rolled off in the bass and top end than any of the others, but is detailed in the mids due to its flatness). 

 

[IEMCrazy]

Quote:

It seems I can't get rid of D5000 & HE-400

. Most guys here recommend them in my price range (and even many guys prefer them to the more expensive HE-500 and D7000).

But again when I'm sure enough about buying HE-400, a kind guy says take a look at DT880 or Q701 or HD600, they are much more accurate and detailed than HE-400 or D5000 which are a little bit fun sounding and It makes me to read and ask more and more.

Oh, I didn't say to look at DT880, Q701, or HD600, I used them as examples and you had an interest in some of their characteristics

  Personally I'm not a DT880 fan, or a Grado fan for that matter.  But I can see where some may like the over-accentuated detail.  Jerg pointed out that they aren't really  more detailed, they just seem it.  But psychoacoustics is an important part of audio.   Psychoacoustics is what makes people perceive HD650 as bassy when in fact it's very bass lean.  And people perceive HD650 as not detailed and slow due to the psychoacoustic effect of a rolled off treble, when in fact it's both fast and detailed.  So the psychoacoustics of a headphone are just as important IMO.  If you like a bright detaled sparkle, DT880 is excellent.  Though D5000 is too in that regard.  Q701 is different from all of them.  HD600....it depends where you want to go with your source.  Sennheiser is a hard recommendation to make if one doesn't want to invest in their source chain at some point.  Everything Senn is much more source bound than other brands.  Everything improves with a better source, but Senn makes life much harder until you get to a certain level versus some competing options, but can exceed the competition once the source exceeds a certain level.  It's a good value if you intend to scale your system over time, but a poor value if you want something to sound its best relatively early or on modest gear.
 
HE-400 is a heck of a value though, no question.  At $400, for that kind of performance, and decent performance on modest gear, it's hard to pass up.  If you're looking for soundstage depth, though, look elsewhere.  In fact, look away from the HiFiMan headphones in general.  The HiFiMan sound is more of an "enveloping" surround of music than a defined projected stage. If you like using Dolby Pro Logic for some 2.1 recordings on an HT setup, you'd like the HFM sound.  I actually do happen to be among the small audiophile community that actually likes the DPL effect, partly because my center channel is worth more than my R/L channels

  HE-400 sort of wraps around you and envelops you in a blanket of music, not inside your head, but all around you.   Something like Beyer or Senneiser tries to project the illusion of a center stage, though arguably none truly achieve that effect perfectly for all recordings.

 

[labratoire]

Thank you very much WiR3D & jerg & IEMCrazy.
 
Dear IEMCrazy, When I was talking about those kind guys who recommend to look at HD6500 & ..., I didn't mean you. Your reply was really illuminating and useful.
 
I use Fiio E10 with my K240S and it sounds good, but now I want a much greater headphone and so I want a new amp too. In your opinion If I use an amp like Matrix M-stage or Objective2, HD600 is much better than HE-400 or not?
 
If you want the truth, I'm a little bit worried about HD600's sound. You know, I mean these huge amount of good words about them that you can hear everywhere, seems a little bit exaggerated to me. But anyway back to the topic, about HE-400 soundstage, which one's soundstage seems to you more natural, HE-400 or HD600? I don't want it to be like a Dolby surround system. I don't listen to classical music. I just want it to be accurate (is this the word?)

 

[labratoire]

and also can someone compare D5000 and HE-400 briefly?

 

[labratoire]

Any idea?

 

[neddamttocs]

Wish i could help with the comparison you're looking for, however my HE-400 should be here on Monday (cant wait) and ill be able to compare to the Grado RS2i and AKG K240MP ... if that helps at all.

 

[labratoire]

Thank you so much neddamttocs. It would be great if you do a comparison to the Grado RS2i and AKG K240MP. I'll wait.

 

[Oderi]

D5000 user here, been doing reading on HE-400's. Will probably order them soonish. From what I've read and based on the replies I've gotten, it's as IEMCrazy (I think) stated earlier i this thread: D5000's fit bass-heavy electronic music (also hip hop) better than HE-400's. In their price category, they are the bass king, personally I think there's no doubt about that. I also love how acoustic guitars etc sound on these.
The thing is I don't only listen to hip hop and electronic music. From what I've read, HE-400's are a very good all-arounder with that planar FR that remains flat to very low frequencies (although its bass is not as prominent as D5000's). One user here even said that the HE-400's sound phenomenal with goa trance, which is a genre I'd imagine D5000 would fit better (I think he also had D2000's (not D5000's), not sure).
 
I'd just go with HE-400's if I were you. To be honest, had I done reading on HE-400's prior to buying D5000's, I would probably have gone with them instead, even though most of my music library comprises of hip hop and electronic music.
 
And what comes to amping, I'm using M-Stage with the D5000's and they're a great match. The aforementioned user with HE-400's also has an M-Stage to feed them from and said that the sound, based on his initial impressions was "detailed, luscious (particularly with vocals) and extremely musical."
 
Another user with both D5000's and HE-400's is MattTCG. According to him "the Denon is more comfortable no question. Nothing  can produce the bass slam with physical impact and do it so refined like the D5000. What the HE-400 does so much better is the beautifully layered and natural sound that only orthos seem so good at." In the 'rank your headphones' thread he ranked his HE-400's above the D5000's.
 
 
EDIT: As you might know, the Denon Dx000 series is discontinued, so getting them might soon be pretty difficult.

 

[IEMCrazy]

Quote:

Thank you very much WiR3D & jerg & IEMCrazy.
 
Dear IEMCrazy, When I was talking about those kind guys who recommend to look at HD6500 & ..., I didn't mean you. Your reply was really illuminating and useful.
 
I use Fiio E10 with my K240S and it sounds good, but now I want a much greater headphone and so I want a new amp too. In your opinion If I use an amp like Matrix M-stage or Objective2, HD600 is much better than HE-400 or not?
 
If you want the truth, I'm a little bit worried about HD600's sound. You know, I mean these huge amount of good words about them that you can hear everywhere, seems a little bit exaggerated to me. But anyway back to the topic, about HE-400 soundstage, which one's soundstage seems to you more natural, HE-400 or HD600? I don't want it to be like a Dolby surround system. I don't listen to classical music. I just want it to be accurate (is this the word?)

I don't have experience with M-Stage, and I don't have HD600 at present (I decided I preferred HD650 long, long ago), however I can say HD650 has excellent results with O2 if you like SS sound.  A vast number of HD6xx owners prefer tube sound with them, however there is definitely a solid SS preference community as well.  O2 is dead neutral, I can't comment on M-Stage.  But I'd have no problem recommending an O2 as an HD6xx amp.  In terms of better than HE-400 on it, that's harder for me to qualify since I prefer both of them on my tubes, and I happen to have used HE-400 a few times more often than HD650 on the O2.  Assuming a good DAC/source.  And, if you believe in cables, a good cable on the HD650, O2 may be sufficient to give it an edge in SS sound.  But don't take that as gospel from me since I'd be much more confident an tube-based performance on nice tubes for both headphones.  And there, I think HD650 really takes advantage of the tubes more easily.  Something about the high impedance just reflects the tube's sound more clearly.  But for a neutral, detailed setup, O2 would indeed work out very well.
  For either headphone, honestly.
 
I wouldn't say that the good words on HD600/HD650 are an exaggeration.   We're talking about headphones that have not only survived but with the new MAP, maintained their original value for 12, 10 years or so respectively.  No other headphone save for a few studio monitors like the Fostex 40 or Sony MDR-7506 has survived on the market so long and even retained its value.  That says a lot about their performance.  If you're looking for accuracy.  True accuracy in a headphone means a flat, or corrected-flat response.  HD600 is certainly accurate.  It was designed for classical mastering.  you may not listen to classical but that says a lot about a headphone's accurate reproduction.  DT880 is just north of accurate.  It's accurate but with an accentuated treble to more easily pick up details in tracking/mixing.  AKGs are effectively dead-flat.  More like HD600 except they're mechanically flat, where HD600 is a "corrected flat" for human hearing.  Two philosophies, no right answer.  The scientists can argue it out.  HD650 is just south of accurate.  Very accurate at large, but with a warmed over midrange and rolled high/low ends.  HE-400, is "roughly accurate", but it's tilted toward "fun"  Ever so slight smile curve.  The bass is a little accentuated, the low-treble is a little accentuated (but rolled off in the fatigue range), and the mids are very neutral but ever so very slightly recessed.   HE-500 would be the more neutral of the two, though by report and graph they're not wildly different.    D5k is the most accurate of the Denon range, while D7k and D2k are slight v curves.   D7k would have a bit more refined detail and a bit more of a stilt toward the treble and away from bass. 
 
 
Quote:

and also can someone compare D5000 and HE-400 briefly?

 
Two completely different headphones entirely.  I bought D5k to compliment HE-400, though I more often use HD650 and HE-400 as my main compliment.  HE-400 is right down the center.  Slightly fun, never analytical, but generally accurate (enough.)  Excellent bass detail, extension, and presence for an open can, but nothing ground-breaking compared to closed cans or LCD-2, great throughout the range, does well with everything.  Somewhat unique presentation.   The most open non-isolating can I can think of.  HD650 (in my setup) is an equal all rounder but comparatively brighter, with more refined detail, more compression of frequencies/DR toward center, more focused, less "surrounding" soundstage, but less instrument separation (HE-400 is a champ at separation, HD650 is a champ at integrating into the whole.) 
 
D5k is very different. It's semi-closed.  It has DEEP bass extension and substantial presence.  That's not to say it's like a Beats headphone that just blasts distorted emphasized bass.   It's pretty linear and very tight with only occasional bloom into the mids.  The mids on the D5k (unlike 2k and 7k) are slightly forward but not Grado aggressive.  It keeps it pretty flat across the range from bass to treble.  I would consider D5k, despite the deep bass, to be a bright headphone.  Far brighter than HE-400 and HD650 with significant treble sparkle.  This makes it somewhat more fatiguing than the other two, but not truly fatiguing.  It's excellent like Oderi said for electronic/hip-hop and acoustic instruments like guitar, violin etc.  Natural wood.  The treble sparkle and wood warmth create that.  However I'm not sure it's as versitile as HE-400 for all genres.  I wouldn't want to listen to much classical or jazz on them, mixed thoughts on world, and I positively (personally) would end up avoiding rock on them in comparison. Though I can see how some would like it.  I've heard D7k is a better rock can.
 
I do realize your interest is HD600 not HD650 between the two, but I use HD650 as the example since I'm more familiar with it on given equipment and, electrically, they're both very very similar, just with different signatures.

 

[jerg]

Quote:

I don't have experience with M-Stage, and I don't have HD600 at present (I decided I preferred HD650 long, long ago), however I can say HD650 has excellent results with O2 if you like SS sound.  A vast number of HD6xx owners prefer tube sound with them, however there is definitely a solid SS preference community as well.  O2 is dead neutral, I can't comment on M-Stage.  But I'd have no problem recommending an O2 as an HD6xx amp.  In terms of better than HE-400 on it, that's harder for me to qualify since I prefer both of them on my tubes, and I happen to have used HE-400 a few times more often than HD650 on the O2.  Assuming a good DAC/source.  And, if you believe in cables, a good cable on the HD650, O2 may be sufficient to give it an edge in SS sound.  But don't take that as gospel from me since I'd be much more confident an tube-based performance on nice tubes for both headphones.  And there, I think HD650 really takes advantage of the tubes more easily.  Something about the high impedance just reflects the tube's sound more clearly.  But for a neutral, detailed setup, O2 would indeed work out very well.
  For either headphone, honestly.
 
I wouldn't say that the good words on HD600/HD650 are an exaggeration.   We're talking about headphones that have not only survived but with the new MAP, maintained their original value for 12, 10 years or so respectively.  No other headphone save for a few studio monitors like the Fostex 40 or Sony MDR-7506 has survived on the market so long and even retained its value.  That says a lot about their performance.  If you're looking for accuracy.  True accuracy in a headphone means a flat, or corrected-flat response.  HD600 is certainly accurate.  It was designed for classical mastering.  you may not listen to classical but that says a lot about a headphone's accurate reproduction.  DT880 is just north of accurate.  It's accurate but with an accentuated treble to more easily pick up details in tracking/mixing.  AKGs are effectively dead-flat.  More like HD600 except they're mechanically flat, where HD600 is a "corrected flat" for human hearing.  Two philosophies, no right answer.  The scientists can argue it out.  HD650 is just south of accurate.  Very accurate at large, but with a warmed over midrange and rolled high/low ends.  HE-400, is "roughly accurate", but it's tilted toward "fun"  Ever so slight smile curve.  The bass is a little accentuated, the low-treble is a little accentuated (but rolled off in the fatigue range), and the mids are very neutral but ever so very slightly recessed.   HE-500 would be the more neutral of the two, though by report and graph they're not wildly different.    D5k is the most accurate of the Denon range, while D7k and D2k are slight v curves.   D7k would have a bit more refined detail and a bit more of a stilt toward the treble and away from bass. 
 
 
 
Two completely different headphones entirely.  I bought D5k to compliment HE-400, though I more often use HD650 and HE-400 as my main compliment.  HE-400 is right down the center.  Slightly fun, never analytical, but generally accurate (enough.)  Excellent bass detail, extension, and presence for an open can, but nothing ground-breaking compared to closed cans or LCD-2, great throughout the range, does well with everything.  Somewhat unique presentation.   The most open non-isolating can I can think of.  HD650 (in my setup) is an equal all rounder but comparatively brighter, with more refined detail, more compression of frequencies/DR toward center, more focused, less "surrounding" soundstage, but less instrument separation (HE-400 is a champ at separation, HD650 is a champ at integrating into the whole.) 
 
D5k is very different. It's semi-closed.  It has DEEP bass extension and substantial presence.  That's not to say it's like a Beats headphone that just blasts distorted emphasized bass.   It's pretty linear and very tight with only occasional bloom into the mids.  The mids on the D5k (unlike 2k and 7k) are slightly forward but not Grado aggressive.  It keeps it pretty flat across the range from bass to treble.  I would consider D5k, despite the deep bass, to be a bright headphone.  Far brighter than HE-400 and HD650 with significant treble sparkle.  This makes it somewhat more fatiguing than the other two, but not truly fatiguing.  It's excellent like Oderi said for electronic/hip-hop and acoustic instruments like guitar, violin etc.  Natural wood.  The treble sparkle and wood warmth create that.  However I'm not sure it's as versitile as HE-400 for all genres.  I wouldn't want to listen to much classical or jazz on them, mixed thoughts on world, and I positively (personally) would end up avoiding rock on them in comparison. Though I can see how some would like it.  I've heard D7k is a better rock can.
 
I do realize your interest is HD600 not HD650 between the two, but I use HD650 as the example since I'm more familiar with it on given equipment and, electrically, they're both very very similar, just with different signatures.

 
 
Dude, write a comprehensive D5k vs HE400 vs HD650 review man. You'll be loved for years for it.
 
 
Not even exaggerating; if you write it objectively enough and factoring in things like different degrees of amping and all that, it'd be the go-to guide for anyone looking into getting the 'best' mid-fi headphones on the current market ('best' as in, whatever suits their tastes best).

 

[IEMCrazy]

Quote:

 
 
Dude, write a comprehensive D5k vs HE400 vs HD650 review man. You'll be loved for years for it.
 
 
Not even exaggerating; if you write it objectively enough and factoring in things like different degrees of amping and all that, it'd be the go-to guide for anyone looking into getting the 'best' mid-fi headphones on the current market ('best' as in, whatever suits their tastes best).

 
LOL, thanks.  Though it would be hard to factor in the possible change you mentioned in the HE-400 thread of the driver tweaks in newer HE-400s.  Or the fact that D5000 will shortly no longer exist

  And I wouldn't feel right doing an objective review of anything without either HE-500, LCD-2, HD800, or HE-6 to use as a reference for the top end.

 

[WiR3D]

Quote:

 
 
Dude, write a comprehensive D5k vs HE400 vs HD650 review man. You'll be loved for years for it.
 
 
Not even exaggerating; if you write it objectively enough and factoring in things like different degrees of amping and all that, it'd be the go-to guide for anyone looking into getting the 'best' mid-fi headphones on the current market ('best' as in, whatever suits their tastes best).

 
LOL, thanks.  Though it would be hard to factor in the possible change you mentioned in the HE-400 thread of the driver tweaks in newer HE-400s.  Or the fact that D5000 will shortly no longer exist

  And I wouldn't feel right doing an objective review of anything without either HE-500, LCD-2, HD800, or HE-6 to use as a reference for the top end.

I also think you should do it.

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