[Arturw8]

so I needed something brighter with pumping bass.

Try HE-500! Compared to Ananda it's more energetic, more informative bass register.

 

[bagwell359]

I know we've been tossing around all sorts of graphs, but I've not seen Ananda represented like this before. Or any other Hifimans. The way it's represented look like a RAW response or some sort of target intended. These are likely more accurate than the crappy measurements we've been discussing thus far. Because Hifimans usually sound like upper-mids are emphasized.

https://www.soundstagenetwork.com/i...ifiman-ananda-headphones&catid=263&Itemid=203

They make too many cans in too many eras to have one size fits all anything IMO re: frequency response. The 560 and Ananda seem brightest to me - of the cans since 2014. Before that the HE-4, HE-5, HE-5LE had some hot areas, and lots of ringing all over. The Arya seems to be bright at 5k, but not 2k, in fact as a rule HFM's generally are depressed from about 1.7k thru 4k - with perhaps one area being raised above 0db, maybe two, but primarily down.

OTOH, ringing is a serious issue with the HFM family, generally the older - the worse it is. I've noticed that ringing often doesn't correlate to a rise in frequency response. However most HFM I have heard ring someplace between 5k and 11k - that's lower to mid treble. Since its 2nd or 3rd harmonic of the upper mids it might make it seem its there. I know the 500 best, and where you can hear the ringing the most is cymbal decay which lasts - no lie - 1-2 times longer than on some reference can or speaker - say 800S or a very good speaker with ribbons.

The ones that seem most like music to me are: HE-6, HE-500, Arya, HEKSE, HE-6SE (Sorry never heard anything above the cost of the HEKSE) - they all have different responses in the upper mids, and I would not characterize any of them as leading with upper mids. Arya is closest.

 

[SilverEars]

They make too many cans in too many eras to have one size fits all anything IMO re: frequency response. The 560 and Ananda seem brightest to me - of the cans since 2014. Before that the HE-4, HE-5, HE-5LE had some hot areas, and lots of ringing all over. The Arya seems to be bright at 5k, but not 2k, in fact as a rule HFM's generally are depressed from about 1.7k thru 4k - with perhaps one area being raised above 0db, maybe two, but primarily down.

OTOH, ringing is a serious issue with the HFM family, generally the older - the worse it is. I've noticed that ringing often doesn't correlate to a rise in frequency response. However most HFM I have heard ring someplace between 5k and 11k - that's lower to mid treble. Since its 2nd or 3rd harmonic of the upper mids it might make it seem its there. I know the 500 best, and where you can hear the ringing the most is cymbal decay which lasts - no lie - 1-2 times longer than on some reference can or speaker - say 800S or a very good speaker with ribbons.

The ones that seem most like music to me are: HE-6, HE-500, Arya, HEKSE, HE-6SE (Sorry never heard anything above the cost of the HEKSE) - they all have different responses in the upper mids, and I would not characterize any of them as leading with upper mids. Arya is closest.

Perhaps you maybe sensitive to the upper-mids on the Ananda as shown in the measurements. Personally, I really haven't noticed any peakiness with Ananda that I would point out to be significant.

I've been having thoughts lately about 3k sounds and 7-9k sounds. To me, they have similarities that, if it's exessive at 3k or at 7k, it's difficult to tell a tonal difference. One way I can decern is when the high-hat cymbal hits. If there is a lot of energy at 7k, I know it will sound thicker and harder attack, and if that area wasn't emphasised with 3k having much presence, I will hear the cymbals sounding more flat with thinner textures for 3k. But, with vocals, those regions sound too similar to me, although I know I will hear more emphasized chhaaa with 7k emphasis.

With this said, HE560 was 7k emphasized, and it bothered me too much. Andanda didn't have that kind of sparkle from what I recall.

Here's a comparison between Ananda, HEKV1, and HEKV2 from the same rig. It makes so much sense to me. HEK series has lifted treble undoubtedly compared to Ananda. You see how they leveled the upper-mids on Susvara?

Ananda


HEKV1


HEKV2


Susvara


A bonus. HE-6SE result of new peli-pads that recess lower upper-mids

 

[SilverEars]

I found a measurement of Sundara. Look familar to Ananda? Ananda is Sundara successor it looks like.

 

[yeboyi]

I found a measurement of Sundara. Look familar to Ananda? Ananda is Sundara successor it looks like.

Yeah only difference is bass extension and amount is more on Ananda, bass slam and dynamic more on Sundara.
Along with larger stage and bigger driver.

 

[bagwell359]

I am sensitive to excess upper mids and lower treble, and its always been so.

When I hated the HE6SE, I believed that exact curve you supplied must be like mine or close to it, but once I got an EQ, no, its not like my copy or the other 2-3 curves I've found. I figured it was an outlier because :10 seconds after I set my EQ to match that curve and listened, I took the cans off, and said - nope, go for another curve.

But the HEX v2 curve supplied here shows beyond a shadow of doubt that there is something amiss. No way given what I hear in mine (or you heard in mine), or the many write ups at HF which complain of lacking impact and detail can both be true. In fact from 2 kHz to 4 kHz there is a trough in mine and other measured results on line. This measurement here shows a minimum of +5.5 db and a maximum +11 db in that range. It's bizarre. I also see a somewhat similar result for all the the HFM cans listed in the 2 kHz to 5 kHz range here. I suggest the methods used to get those results is flawed.

I don't care for the bass settings or the lack of attention paid to ringing planars in oratory1990, but looking at their recorded curves, they do not bear any similarity to the HEX v2 measurements here.

innerfidelity
diyadudioheaven
audiosciencereview
HF
that 4 letter alternate outfit

all have charts on the HEX v2 and all disagree with your graph, and none support it. Also, even though I didn't spend much time with HEK v1, its sounded nothing like that curve, and the Ananda issues are up in the 6 kHz - 10 kHz range where Beyers and Grados often overdo it.

 

[SilverEars]

I am sensitive to excess upper mids and lower treble, and its always been so.

When I hated the HE6SE, I believed that exact curve you supplied must be like mine or close to it, but once I got an EQ, no, its not like my copy or the other 2-3 curves I've found. I figured it was an outlier because :10 seconds after I set my EQ to match that curve and listened, I took the cans off, and said - nope, go for another curve.

But the HEX v2 curve supplied here shows beyond a shadow of doubt that there is something amiss. No way given what I hear in mine (or you heard in mine), or the many write ups at HF which complain of lacking impact and detail can both be true. In fact from 2 kHz to 4 kHz there is a trough in mine and other measured results on line. This measurement here shows a minimum of +5.5 db and a maximum +11 db in that range. It's bizarre. I also see a somewhat similar result for all the the HFM cans listed in the 2 kHz to 5 kHz range here. I suggest the methods used to get those results is flawed.

I don't care for the bass settings or the lack of attention paid to ringing planars in oratory1990, but looking at their recorded curves, they do not bear any similarity to the HEX v2 measurements here.

innerfidelity
diyadudioheaven
audiosciencereview
HF
that 4 letter alternate outfit

all have charts on the HEX v2 and all disagree with your graph, and none support it. Also, even though I didn't spend much time with HEK v1, its sounded nothing like that curve, and the Ananda issues are up in the 6 kHz - 10 kHz range where Beyers and Grados often overdo it.

Do you mean HEKV2 or HEXV2? That was HEKV2 measurement that was posted. There was HEXV1 measurement which looks similar to Ananda's response. I want to point out that the vertical scale is stretched. We can always compress it to make the peak appear shorter. So, it's relative to how the graph scale is represented. It's better to notice stuff if the vertical scale is stretched.

 

[bagwell359]

Ooof! Yup saw it as a HEX, sorry. However I've heard all 3 HEK's - albeit for a total of 2.5 hours, and the problem area for two of them was in the treble, not the upper mids, 1 was worse than 2, 2 worse than SE, and SE just a trace.

However, I'm solid on the HE6SE. My issue was the low VAC coming into my house (as low as 113) and either the CD player, DAC, or amp not handling it the right way - because ever since (3+ months) it's been ruler flat 120 - and no way does that curve represent what I hear thru the CD or hi-res TIDAL.

Below are two freq response graphs. Both show a decided dip at 2kHz, and a rise to 4kHz. Mine don't seem to have as an extensive 4k peak of the Samma, but a broader rise starting around 3k thru about 5k. I think upper mids are 1.5k-3k. These need a boost centered at about 1750 Hz of about 3.8 db. This is a broad dip needing a 1.30 Q factor across 1200Hz-3000Hz or the entire upper mid range.

p.s. I'm familiar with graphs not having equal X and Y units. It's unlikely that the peak of the HE-6SE is +11db at 3k. samma says +6 at 4k. The other one says +3.5 at 4.3k.

samma3a:

s_b_a_*:

 

[kernel8888]

Here’s my breakdown

ananda- best frequency response, good technicalities but not excellent. Less bright than hd800s with droug v3

he-6 more v shaped than ananda- SLIGHTLY better technically (detail, layering, etc) best bass of the lot

he-560 similar frequency response to ananda but thinner mids, a little more bass (pads make a diff)

he-6se 4K spike not present in original he-6 was a deal breaker for me and I wouldn’t buy this hp again

he-x- warmest by a good margin- like a Smokey dark jazz club- not bad but not as balanced

he1000/v2/se have a treble spike lower in the frequency than the he-6 and is a bit troublesome- best technically but overall I prefer the ananda due to some special stuff going on in the mids and the more balanced frequency response

 

[SilverEars]

s_b_a_*:

I wouldn't take those measurements serious as they are DIY rigs. Which was my point, with a much more accurate rig that uses standardized ear simulators, you get the kinds of responses I've posted. These are RAW measurements just like if you look at Innerfidelity's or Tyll's RAW measurements in gray (not the red/blue compensated that looks bassy). I've seen so many MiniDSP Ears rig measurements being put out by reviewers that look nothing like how the response should look that I find it to provide very inaccurate results.

Here's a good post by Jude on various DIY rigs that are/were floating around that put out results like the ones you posted. https://www.head-fi.org/threads/a-h...the-ie800s-thread.865189/page-3#post-13852279

Here's a bit of a background as to why the RAW measurements should look the way they do (the Youtube videos in the post).

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/aud...iew-impressions.765004/page-115#post-15607260

And lastly, the lastest developments by B&K on better accuracy of ear simulators for measurements. I hope to see the results from the simulator from Jude soon.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/brüel-kjærs-evolution-of-hearing-simulation-part-2-coming-soon.928514/

Here’s my breakdown

ananda- best frequency response, good technicalities but not excellent. Less bright than hd800s with droug v3

he-6 more v shaped than ananda- SLIGHTLY better technically (detail, layering, etc) best bass of the lot

he-560 similar frequency response to ananda but thinner mids, a little more bass (pads make a diff)

he-6se 4K spike not present in original he-6 was a deal breaker for me and I wouldn’t buy this hp again

he-x- warmest by a good margin- like a Smokey dark jazz club- not bad but not as balanced

he1000/v2/se have a treble spike lower in the frequency than the he-6 and is a bit troublesome- best technically but overall I prefer the ananda due to some special stuff going on in the mids and the more balanced frequency response

HE-6 I believe depends on pads. The reason why HE-6SE is responsed the way it shows is because the new Peli-pads that comes with it, like I've pointed out. HE-6 should really have good mids, and I find them pretty full if driven well. There's a bit of a treble emphasis in the mid treble however.

 

[bagwell359]

Here’s my breakdown

ananda- best frequency response, good technicalities but not excellent. Less bright than hd800s with droug v3

he-6 more v shaped than ananda- SLIGHTLY better technically (detail, layering, etc) best bass of the lot

he-560 similar frequency response to ananda but thinner mids, a little more bass (pads make a diff)

he-6se 4K spike not present in original he-6 was a deal breaker for me and I wouldn’t buy this hp again

he-x- warmest by a good margin- like a Smokey dark jazz club- not bad but not as balanced

he1000/v2/se have a treble spike lower in the frequency than the he-6 and is a bit troublesome- best technically but overall I prefer the ananda due to some special stuff going on in the mids and the more balanced frequency response

Generally agree. Have you heard the Arya? I have the 6SE and HEX v2 and they both benefit quite a bit from an EQ. I've already written a book on the Ananda, and won't have more to say until I get a good parametric EQ on them.

 

[omniweltall]

I've heard all 3 HEK's - albeit for a total of 2.5 hours, and the problem area for two of them was in the treble, not the upper mids, 1 was worse than 2, 2 worse than SE, and SE just a trace.

Agreed.

The Arya's treble to me is more bothersome than Ananda.

he-560 similar frequency response to ananda but thinner mids, a little more bass (pads make a diff)

The HE560 I heard had wonky treble and muffled bass. And the build quality, O M G.

 

[yeboyi]

All these treble talk.... I'm laughing at you with my DT 1990.

 

[bagwell359]

Ahhh. SilverEars pointed out that the tests he posted were not just the normal sort of test for speakers in a room but with a physical ear included which has "horn like" qualities added to the sound.

I'm not familiar with that, so I'll read up on it.

Agreed.

The Arya's treble to me is more bothersome than Ananda.

As I know them so far, the Ananda treble bothered me because I heard a lot of false detail due a healthy rise in response in the mid treble, and general brightness where nuetral colors were called for. The Arya's trouble area seems smaller by Hz on a graph, but its a fatiguing thing - could be ringing or ringing mixed with elevated response. Now that I'm two feet square on the digital parametric EQ and MQA side of the fence - I would love to get both in hand for a listening and adjusting (long ear HFM's don't lend themselves to mods), to see what's correctable.

Just leaving out the annoying parts for a moment, if I would give (non EQ, 44.1, non modified) the HEKSE 10.0 points for overall sound, the Arya would be 9.0, 6SE 8.75, 500 7.9, Ananda 6.5, 4XX 4.5. With the parametric and TIDAL hi-res (one or the other) in hand the 6SE is a 9.3, HEX v2 8.9, 500 8.9, 4XX 6.7. Sure do want to hear what the EQ or hi-res does for the others. Ananda might be in the 8's, Arya near 10.0 (nasty area gone or well stepped on) HEK v2 towards 11?

 

[bagwell359]

All these treble talk.... I'm laughing at you with my DT 1990.

Do you own a HiFiMan? Have something useful to add, welcome. Otherwise get a few hundred more likes before you start another worthless war, if its not too much trouble.

Musing: HFM issues are reported with so much vigor, because they are so damn great, and any issues (real or perceived) get reported. With lesser brands famous for ridiculous raised trebles far beyond the reach of even a broken HFM can, one can only grieve.