[corsario]

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@Fang
 
After much testing this evening I seem to come to the conclusion that playing SACD through the LO is inferior to the HO.  The output of the LO w/ SACD sources seems to have the FR pushed further up into the higher freqs to my ears.  I'm getting far more sibilance, clipping, leaner sound, less bass, lost resolution or artifacting in about 85%-90% of my SACDs.  I tested SACD LO versus HO amped and unamped, the results are consistent on my unit.  Listening to the LO v. HO w/ regular 16bit yields no such flaws.  To my ears there is something going on w/ the 24bit files thru LO.  Anyone else feel free to let me know if I'm crazy.

 
Hi,
 
Not sure if I understand well, but unless you use some Analogical-to-Digital soundcard to capture the DSD tracks of the SACD in 24/96 ou 24/192, your SACD rips are nothing else than a conventional CD rip (16 bits). So, when you are talking about "24bit files thru LO", do you mean real 24bit files or the so-called "SACD rips" ?
 
If, as I think, your "SACD rips" are in fact the rip of the 16bit CD layer of the SACD (what else ?) then the conclusion is that there can not be any artifact due to "SACD" rips, and that this is all in your head. Maybe this answers your last question

 
I apologize if I misunderstood or missed something.

K, so are you saying you hear no degradation listening to 24 bit files from LO versus HO or is this all theory speak on your part?  My music is a mix of SACD and DVD Audio rips plus 24 bit FLAC downloads like HDTracks.  Two points to help clarify.
 
1-Every one of my 24 bit files plays flawlessly on my PC
 
2-The HO of my 602 sounds closer to the signature i get playing from my PC via speakers and noticeably off via LO in comparison.  We are talking thinner, more brittle and harsher highers w/ less low end presence.
 
Not sure I understand that your understanding of my question is even relevant to the point.  You also seem to be saying my hearing impressions via LO playing 24 bit material is imagined?  Do you even realize what you are saying?  I hope so, because I don't.

Hi,
 
you were not talking about DVD-audio rip and 24 bits files so far, only SACD rips. And the SACD rips seem to be where your issue is.
 
What I am saying is that 24 bits SACD rips do not exist* : the 16/44 CD layer is ripped instead.
On the other hand with the proper software you may be able to extract the 24/96 or 24/192 tracks from DVD-audio. And of course 24 bit files from HD-tracks are genuine 24-bits files.
 
My point is : when you are talking about SACD rips, you can not be talking about 24 bits files*. The conclusion is that if you have the issue with your SACD rips, then it is all in your imagination. And this is not a big deal : in hifi, mistakes due to imagination (or self -suggestion) happens all the times, and has happen to everybody.
 
Now, if you have an issue with playing 24 bit files with the HM-602, then this is another thing, but this can not be related to your SACD rips (which are 16 bits rips*), so please to not talk about SACD rips, this is confusing.
 
I hope things are clearer now

 
I have 3 questions :
- How did you perform your SACD rips ?
- How did you perform your DVD-audio rips ? (which software)
- Do you have the issue with SACD rips, and DVD-audio rips and HD tracks ? Or only with one types of these files ?
 
Those things are not simple, to anybody, so relax, we are just chatting (and the smiley I put in my first reply was here to say I was just having a relaxed chat, just like teasing friends).
 
*unless you use an analogical to digital soundcard plugged into the analogical output of your SACD player. Please specify this point. This might be where my mistake is.

 

[Anaxilus]

Omg, can you pretend we are not in the SACD thread of the Sound Science forum and see the forest through the trees?  Neither of your posts has anything to do with my problem.  Let me make it clearer for you the third time.
 
THE LO SOUNDS WORSE THAN THE HO PLAYING NON CD BASED FILES. 
 
Figure that out for me and we can play sound science format wars later.

 

[corsario]

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Omg, can you pretend we are not in the SACD thread of the Sound Science forum and see the forest through the trees?  Neither of your posts has anything to do with my problem.  Let me make it clearer for you the third time.
 
THE LO SOUNDS WORSE THAN THE HO PLAYING NON CD BASED FILES. 
 
Figure that out for me and we can play sound science format wars later.

please understand that SACD rips are CD based files*

 
 
And for the record, no problem for my HM-602 when playing 24 bit files, neither in LO nor in HO.
 
Sorry for you but since you are reporting a serious issue, that may affect a lot of people, including Nankai, you have to be more specific : how did you perform your SACD rips, your DVD-audio rips ? With wich kind of files (SACR rips, DVD-audio rips, HDtracks ?) do you experience the issue you are reporting ? As far as we know the way you ripped your SACD may be faulty, not the HM-602.
 
You can not be taken seriously unless more precision are given. Especially when you claim that the difference can be heard when comparing with PC speakers (!!!) : "The HO of my 602 sounds closer to the signature i get playing from my PC via speakers and noticeably off via LO in comparison"?
Seriously...
 
 
*unless specified otherwise

 

[Anaxilus]

Not sure what you have against speakers as a reference.  My PC speakers are THX 5.1 speakers, not an oem pc case speaker mounted to your motherboard.  I really don't care if you take me seriously.  It's almost 2AM atm, I'm not in the mood to play this game with you.  Personally I think it would be better to hear other impressions from people saying if they had a problem or not before determining my rips are the problem.  Thanks for finally offering your impression on the matter after 3 irrelevant posts skirting the issue.  If I get more impressions directly related to my original question I'll take your questions more 'seriously' at that point.  I think your diagnostic cart is before the horse.  You still can't seem to explain why 40% of my collection doesn't play on the 602 yet no problems on my PC and why 85% sounds unbalanced via LO.  At this point, why would you care how my rips were made when I hear no issues via HO but do via LO since and you say you hear no difference on yours?
 
Seriously!!
 
Btw, is English your primary language?  I'm getting tired of having these discussions w/ people that can make such comments as yours on a post multiple times like they didn't even get the point in the first place.  No offense.        

 

[corsario]

 
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Not sure what you have against speakers as a reference.  My PC speakers are THX 5.1 speakers, not an oem pc case speaker mounted to your motherboard.  I really don't care if you take me seriously.  It's almost 2AM atm, I'm not in the mood to play this game with you.  Personally I think it would be better to hear other impressions from people saying if they had a problem or not before determining my rips are the problem.  Thanks for finally offering your impression on the matter after 3 irrelevant posts skirting the issue.  If I get more impressions directly related to my original question I'll take your questions more 'seriously' at that point.  I think your diagnostic cart is before the horse.  You still can't seem to explain why 40% of my collection doesn't play on the 602 yet no problems on my PC and why 85% sounds unbalanced via LO.  At this point, why would you care how my rips were made when I hear no issues via HO but do via LO since and you say you hear no difference on yours?
 
Seriously!!
 
Btw, is English your primary language?  I'm getting tired of having these discussions w/ people that can make such comments as yours on a post multiple times like they didn't even get the point in the first place.  No offense.        

OK, get some sleep and we'll get to this latter.
 
Btw your original question was related to SACD rip. What is such thing ?????
And then it seemed you made a confusion with 24 bit files.
 
So please, if you want other people to understand you, try to be specific with you problem. How do you want other people understand your problem if you do not tell, for instance, what are the characteristics of the SACD rips you talking about ? How do you expect people to try to reproduce your problem ?
 
1) Do you have the problem with 16 bit SCAD rips (ie CD layer) ?
2) Do you have the problem with 24 bit HD tracks ?
3) Do you have the problem with 24 bits SACD rips ? (How did you perform these rips ?)
4) Do you have the problem with 24 bit DVD-audio rips ? (How did you perform these rips ?)
 
 
PS : I am not playing any game. When I first read your message I was hit :" "SACD rip" ? Ouch, maybe this guy is making some sort of confusion here."
What I expected for answer to my first message was something like : "Wait man, to obtain these SACD rips I used an analogue-to-digital soundcard directly plugged into the analogical output of my SACD player. Hence the 24-bit SACD rips. Sorry, I should have specified this to avoid confusion". End of the discussion.
If this is really the case, why not state simply it ? And conversely if it is not (i.e. 16 bits rip), state it as well, and we will know that whatever your problem is, it is not related to 24 bits files. This is fast and easy.
 
 
 

 

[nickosiris]

Just to backtrack to Anaxilus's original issue: The only file I haven't been able to play on the 602 was an enormous APE that crashed the player. Everything else has been fine, including 16 and 24 bit FLACs and WAVs created from various sources.
 
BTW whilst it is technically difficult to get a DSD signal out of an SACD player it's not impossible. Most "24bit SACD rips" that casual observers will come across are taken from the analogue out of the player (ie the signal has been through digital to analogue conversion in the player, then analogue to digital again before being processed by the computer).

 

[.Sup]

I haven't been able to play an mp3 album, the player always crashed. No differences between this and other albums but I tried several times and could never make it to play. The player started to stutter when I selected that album

 

[ClieOS]

If the music files have album art, try remove them first.

 

[DJGeorgeT]

well the DBA-02 is probably not going to benefit from burn in. The IE8 will. I should have added that the 262's had poor synergy with teh 602 when I heard them. Are you happy now? pfff give me a break
 
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Clieos had a lot more time to put on the gear and settle on it, I'll give a lot more weight to his impressions. A day's impressions aren't always accurate and it's why I never mention my dislike of IEMs like the IE8 and DBA02 which I disliked after spending a couple of hours with them, I feel it's unfair.

 

[Inks]

Brain-burn in and tip experimentation should also be taken into consideration, it's not that simple. You're not making me happy with that attitude nor do I care if you do.

 

[Inks]

Corsario, I think what made it conflicting was the fact that you've assumed the SACD rips were just cd layer rips (from Hybrids) or just a 16 bit rip. Pretty sure he made it clear that they're 24 bit SACD rips, asking what method he used to rip would've been a better approach.

 

[DJGeorgeT]

Brain burn in is absurd. Really, it is getting used to a sound signature that was no appealing at first. Tip experimentation is defenitely something I do. Do me a favor and ignore my posts. I really do not care about your comments.
 
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Brain-burn in and tip experimentation should also be taken into consideration, it's not that simple. You're not making me happy with that attitude nor do I care if you do.

 

 

[corsario]

 
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Corsario, I think what made it conflicting was the fact that you've assumed the SACD rips were just cd layer rips (from Hybrids) or just a 16 bit rip. Pretty sure he made it clear that they're 24 bit SACD rips, asking what method he used to rip would've been a better approach.

Hi,
 
well, pretty sure he did not :
 
- My first phrase in my first message was : "Not sure if I understand well, but unless you use some Analogical-to-Digital soundcard to capture the DSD tracks of the SACD in 24/96 ou 24/192, your SACD rips are nothing else than a conventional CD rip (16 bits)"
 
No answer about this in his first reply.
 
- Then in my second message I stated again : "24 bits SACD rips do not exist unless you use an analogical to digital soundcard plugged into the analogical output of your SACD player. Please specify this point. This might be where my mistake is."
 
Second opportunity for him to close the debate. Well, again, no answer about this (only an esoteric : "can you pretend we are not in the SACD thread of the Sound Science forum and see the forest through the trees?  Neither of your posts has anything to do with my problem." ????)
 
- Third message of mine : "how did you perform your SACD rips, your DVD-audio rips ? With which kind of files (SACD rips, DVD-audio rips, HDtracks ?) are you experiencing the issue you are reporting ?"
 
Again, no answser appart from : "is English your primary language?  I'm getting tired of having these discussions w/ people that can make such comments as yours on a post multiple times like they didn't even get the point in the first place"
 
- In my last message, I tried again to get the answer I'm asking from the beginning : "I am not playing any game. When I first read your message I was hit :" "SACD rip" ? Ouch, maybe this guy is making some sort of confusion here." What I expected for answer to my first message was something like : "Wait man, to obtain these SACD rips I used an analogue-to-digital soundcard directly plugged into the analogical output of my SACD player"."
 
 
What should I do to get an answer about this point ?...
 
You say you are assuming these are 24 bit rips. Maybe (you are an optimist

), but then why did Anaxilus not simply state it when he was asked for it 4 times ???.... I simply do not understand...
 
When he wake up tomorrow maybe we get an answer. So far he said that this point (24 bit rips or 16 bit rips), "has [nothing] to do with [his] problem"
 
odd enough...
 
 
Well, we'll see.... There is still hope (I am an optimist too)

 

[warp08]

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what does that mean in "lukewarm" state warp?

Cooler than the 801...

 

[.Sup]

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what does that mean in "lukewarm" state warp?

Cooler than the 801...

Ok I think I got it 

 
It doesn't get warm as much? Mine never gets very warm