[dlayman]

See this page.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/1964-ears-adel-iems.739712/page-419

The U12 are designed to sound more neutral with a high output impedance source. They actually are more bass-heavy with a low Z-out source.

 

[reginalb]

See this page.

https://www.head-fi.org/threads/1964-ears-adel-iems.739712/page-419

The U12 are designed to sound more neutral with a high output impedance source. They actually are more bass-heavy with a low Z-out source.

Interesting. Is the scan on the left dB? If so, you're looking at a 3dB switch at a 30 ohm output impedance, likely the difference between the .75 OI of the Mojo there and a 10 ohm output impedance would be inaudible. So all 3 of those examples provided by @Hawaiibadboy are probably for me personally, bad examples. My Unique Melody Merlins don't react well to a 10 ohm output.

 

[twister6]

...
Bass is weak off phones...he knows that, weak/thin bass is the death nail for the biggest group of buyers. Audiophiles are not that group.
...

I hear ya, Chris. Was talking the other day to a few of my buddies who rep that "biggest group of buyers", trying to explain to them what a dedicated audio player means. After a blank stare, I had to tell them "mp3 player, like an iPod" - they got that right away lol!!! It was like talking to a wall, since their mentality of sound upgrade is in getting a new pair of headphones with more bass, nobody cares about the source since they only use their smartphones... That's a sad reality, DAPs are still catered to audiophiles who appreciate it.

Regarding high output impedance, is that an official spec or speculation based on output impedance of head-amp section, anybody? Sorry, i didn't look through every post of the thread, only the last few pages, and didn't see the spec on IGG page. Nothing is wrong with high output impedance, but, for example, 5 ohm impedance of M2s did change low end impact and treble energy of a number of my lower impedance multi-BAs when I tested that pair up. Not saying it was a bad change, but it was noticeable enough.

 

[reginalb]

I hear ya, Chris. Was talking the other day to a few of my buddies who rep that "biggest group of buyers", trying to explain to them what a dedicated audio player means. After a blank stare, I had to tell them "mp3 player, like an iPod" - they got that right away lol!!! It was like talking to a wall, since their mentality of sound upgrade is in getting a new pair of headphones with more bass, nobody cares about the source since they only use their smartphones... That's a sad reality, DAPs are still catered to audiophiles who appreciate it.

Regarding high output impedance, is that an official spec or speculation based on output impedance of head-amp section, anybody? Sorry, i didn't look through every post of the thread, only the last few pages, and didn't see the spec on IGG page. Nothing is wrong with high output impedance, but, for example, 5 ohm impedance of M2s did change low end impact and treble energy of a number of my lower impedance multi-BAs when I tested that pair up. Not saying it was a bad change, but it was noticeable enough.

Well, since transducers make a bigger difference than your source...they're actually right.

And regarding output impedance, that is as per the manufacturer.

 

[Benz-Fi]

Am I dreaming or will this be the first Android dap with enough RAM to actually run android smoothly and not just a designated Player app like literally every other android dap out there right now?!

I need to see/read some hands on reviews to believe this 3gb RAM sorcery!

 

[twister6]

Well, since transducers make a bigger difference than your source...they're actually right.

And regarding output impedance, that is as per the manufacturer.

My point was, try to convince non-audiophile to buy a DAP

 

[PapaThrust]

Hiby sent out another survey asking what it will take to support the Indiegogo effort, so.....please let them know.
And you get another chance to win R6!
I'm betting more support once they lower the Impedance, they'll have mine.

 

[dlayman]

Interesting. Is the scan on the left dB? If so, you're looking at a 3dB switch at a 30 ohm output impedance, likely the difference between the .75 OI of the Mojo there and a 10 ohm output impedance would be inaudible. So all 3 of those examples provided by @Hawaiibadboy are probably for me personally, bad examples. My Unique Melody Merlins don't react well to a 10 ohm output.

Yes, its a db scale. It does state later that the 30 ohm number is incorrect, its actually 22 ohm. I think the difference using these two different sources would be VERY audible, the amplitude is a bout 4 db, but its over a very wide frequency range, and moreover, its tilted, with the higher output impedance device lowering the lower frequencies and bumping the higher ones. 64 Audio says these IEM's were designed to sound correct from high z-out sources, such as stage gear.

 

[reginalb]

Hiby sent out another survey asking what it will take to support the Indiegogo effort, so.....please let them know.
And you get another chance to win R6!
I'm betting more support once they lower the Impedance, they'll have mine.

I also replied, but I think we might be in the minority. I mean, to be honest, are there that many people that use multi-ba iems? I hope there's lots of people complaining, because other than that one spec, I like this DAP a whole lot.

And changing it wouldn't necessarily be easy. They've chosen a particular amplifier for its low noise and distortion. The documentation for that amplifier indicates it requires a resistor on the output of 10-100 ohms. They choose the bottom end of that, just as Texas Instruments recommends for mobile applications. I think that changing the amplifier at this time would be a bit of a delay. It's probably more likely that, at best, the R3 will be re-worked, or an R6 mkII, or something like that.

 

[reginalb]

Yes, its a db scale. It does state later that the 30 ohm number is incorrect, its actually 22 ohm. I think the difference using these two different sources would be VERY audible, the amplitude is a bout 4 db, but its over a very wide frequency range, and moreover, its tilted, with the higher output impedance device lowering the lower frequencies and bumping the higher ones. 64 Audio says these IEM's were designed to sound correct from high z-out sources, such as stage gear.

I missed the note that it was actually 22 ohm, you're going to be looking at a much smaller change from a 10 ohm output impedance to a .75 ohm than a jump from .75 to 30. And the change already isn't all that big, again, it looked like 3dB to me, so from a 10 ohm, I'd expect more like a 1 dB change. To the average listener, fast switching with a trained listener? Maybe, but not in casual listening.

Either way, it's still not going to representative of how my Merlins react, which are definitely NOT designed to sound good from a high impedance source.

 

[audionewbi]

@Hawaiibadboy Soundwise who similar is it to Calyx M?

 

[podcastjunky]

Would I be foolish in consideration of buying this hiby R6 and ALSO a set of iems that would compliment and vise versa ...the hiby ??...I mean this hobby is spendy.....I get that that issue is mine alone as a consumer....but my point being....with my delving deeper into articles on ohm matching and the like......to scoff at something so well made seems like I could be missing the boat as well as furthering the push for a market for a dap many of us have been wanting....long and short .....could be a solid investment on my end taking care to selectively choose a pairing right for the output end....?

 

[headwhacker]

I missed the note that it was actually 22 ohm, you're going to be looking at a much smaller change from a 10 ohm output impedance to a .75 ohm than a jump from .75 to 30. And the change already isn't all that big, again, it looked like 3dB to me, so from a 10 ohm, I'd expect more like a 1 dB change. To the average listener, fast switching with a trained listener? Maybe, but not in casual listening.

Either way, it's still not going to representative of how my Merlins react, which are definitely NOT designed to sound good from a high impedance source.

Exactly, this is just one sample. Other multi-BA iems will behave differently with high OI Z. Good for 64-Audio sharing that info. At least people with U12 will have an idea how it behaves with high OI Z. But we have tons of iems out there with barely enough info about them.

 

[headwhacker]

Would I be foolish in consideration of buying this hiby R6 and ALSO a set of iems that would compliment and vise versa ...the hiby ??...I mean this hobby is spendy.....I get that that issue is mine alone as a consumer....but my point being....with my delving deeper into articles on ohm matching and the like......to scoff at something so well made seems like I could be missing the boat as well as furthering the push for a market for a dap many of us have been wanting....long and short .....could be a solid investment on my end taking care to selectively choose a pairing right for the output end....?

Decide on your priority, if R6 is the DAP you think tick all your boxes, then get R6, Do a research for the iem/s you like and hopefully get the data how they react with high OI.
The other way around is get your sights on an iem (e.g. the 64-Audio U12) and find out which sources works best for it. If you stick to the most popular gears, you will probably get enough data to make a decision.
Or just try iems with as many combination of sources as you can and decide which one pairs well together.

In this hobby, the worse thing you do is rush and give in to a hype, you may save 100 bucks now but you will end up spending much more down the road if you realize the gear is not for you. Make it a habit to try things first many times as you can before you decide.

 

[podcastjunky]

Decide on your priority, if R6 is the DAP you think tick all your boxes, then get R6, Do a research for the iem/s you like and hopefully get the data how they react with high OI.
The other way around is get your sights on an iem (e.g. the 64-Audio U12) and find out which sources works best for it. If you stick to the most popular gears, you will probably get enough data to make a decision.
Or just try iems with as many combination of sources as you can and decide which one pairs well together.

In this hobby, the worse thing you do is rush and give in to a hype, you may save 100 bucks now but you will end up spending much more down the road if you realize the gear is not for you. Make it a habit to try things first many times as you can before you decide.

Thanks for that...indeed sir that is the direction I am leaning....I believe it does infact to current date tic the boxes for me....sigh ....the money spent on another set of iems isn't the biggest deal ...it will be the theoretical research ahead of me living in a small state few retailers for demo opportunity for this hobby....at any rate thanks again sir