[mfrancojr]

Let me start out by giving a little back round info.  I am a professional audio engineer. The studio where I was working at, was sold.  Now I have clients from the studio I worked at asking me to do mixes.  Well I live in a cramped house and have no room to build a control room.  So I have come the conclusion to buy better cans and use them with the focusrite VRM box.  My problem is figuring out which cans to buy.  I need a pair that have good low end but not over colored, as well as "true" high end.  I have tried to mix on my m50's and the high end always translates into mush in my car and boombox tests.  So I was looking at buying the AKG-Q701's along with a pair of KRK-KNS 8400(m50's cracked) for tracking vocals in my makeshift closet booth.  I use (Crappy) Behringer TRUTHS B2031A monitors right now, but will soon own the KRK RP8's G2.  I need a pair that will cause me less car checks after the VRM checks. I use my Fast Track pro for a HP Amp to the booth and the VRM will be for my Q701's I Know, you should never mix with headphones but until I can get into another studio or a bigger place I have to make due, especially in AZ where your opportunities to work with local artists are so hard to get because the 4 (was 5) major studios we have suck up all the business.  I just need to know I am not wasting my money on the Q's.  I'm not looking for an audiophiles set of cans but rather a studio monitor set of cans that will reveal a lot in my mixes.
 
Thanks
MFM
 

 

[Danz03]

I have not heard the Q701 but from comments and graphs I've read and seen, the bass response seems to tail out from 100Hz, so not too good for hip-hip and dance.
 
From my experience, the LCD-2s have the flattest frequency response of all the headphones I've heard, they're supposed to have ruler flat FR from 1 k all the way down to 10 Hz. I have tried doing mixes with them but the mixes would always come out wrong when listened with speakers or monitors.
 
I have the VRM box too, it doesn't work well with the LCD-2s, in fact there were a lot of added phasing distortions with that combo when I tried it. Out of all the headphones I've tried with the VRM box, the Sennheiser HD 25-1 II (which don't actually have very flat FR on it's own) seem to work the best, the Adam S2.5A setting sounds quite similar to my Genelec setup. Mixes I've done with that combo translate quite well to speakers in my opinion. Having said that, I still wouldn't do stereo mixes with headphones unless I really have to.
 
If you are going to use your headphones with the VRM box, you really should try them out through it as it does alter the sound signature of the headphones quite a bit. Hope this is helpful to you.

 

[Acix]

Go with the K-702/Q..just keep in mind that in some point you'll need some ss hps amp. Here is more info: http://www.head-fi.org/forum/thread/393139/k702-in-the-studio

 

[mfrancojr]

So my fast track pro is not powerful enough? Do you think the 702's would be better than Q's.  I like the Q's for the fact I could use them for both studio work and enjoy my music collection.  I read the Q's are like the K701's but with tweaks made by QJ for high end, low end, and comfort.  The K702's sound like a good option too and I have read about them, but I live in AZ so all I have is Guitar Centers and no way to test the Q's or K702's. They are special order only.  If I go with the K702's  I could afford the SM Pro Audio Q-AMP.  I am wondering if maybe with my budget I should just stick with the KRK KNS-8400's.  I want to keep my signal flow as simple as possible and do not have it in my budget to buy another audio interface along with headphone amps.  I'm guessing the VRM and Fast Track are not powerful enough for the K702's, Q701's, AHD2000, or BD DT 880's. Like I said before, these cans will be for late night mix checks, editing, and tracking.  I appreciate the input so far, I know I'm new but I have been a lurker since I bought my m50's back in 08'.

 

[gelocks]

Quite frankly, I would suggest to skip the cans and get better monitors...
 
I have never had good results with headphones when mixing a couple of tracks... and I'm talking about home recording material here not something you'll probably want to distribute/sell/etc... meaning a more critical approach would need to be taken (which is probably what you are doing... something more professional!)
 
If you are still going with headphones, I've heard good things about Grados RS2 and Sennheiser's HD600... I have personally never heard/used them in either a monitoring or just music playing situation... but I guess you could add them to your list and keep asking ppl for recommendations...
 
Thanks.

 

[sesshin]

It's not just the cans but also the DAC and amp which can lead either to a neutral or colored sound. So you want to pay attention to the whole signal chain, not just the final stage.

As far as headphones, the LCD-2s have one of the flattest frequency response out there so they're definitely a good starting point.

 

[Acix]

Quote:

So my fast track pro is not powerful enough? Do you think the 702's would be better than Q's.  I like the Q's for the fact I could use them for both studio work and enjoy my music collection.  I read the Q's are like the K701's but with tweaks made by QJ for high end, low end, and comfort.  The K702's sound like a good option too and I have read about them, but I live in AZ so all I have is Guitar Centers and no way to test the Q's or K702's. They are special order only.  If I go with the K702's  I could afford the SM Pro Audio Q-AMP.  I am wondering if maybe with my budget I should just stick with the KRK KNS-8400's.  I want to keep my signal flow as simple as possible and do not have it in my budget to buy another audio interface along with headphone amps.  I'm guessing the VRM and Fast Track are not powerful enough for the K702's, Q701's, AHD2000, or BD DT 880's. Like I said before, these cans will be for late night mix checks, editing, and tracking.  I appreciate the input so far, I know I'm new but I have been a lurker since I bought my m50's back in 08'.

 

Try to get some K-702 used on the FS forum. Second, you can add a nice amp later on, no rush...

 

[calipilot227]

If you don't mind IEMs, the ER-4B/ER-4S is a good choice. It needs to be properly amped to prevent the bass from sounding anemic.

 

[mfrancojr]

Quote:

It's not just the cans but also the DAC and amp which can lead either to a neutral or colored sound. So you want to pay attention to the whole signal chain, not just the final stage.

As far as headphones, the LCD-2s have one of the flattest frequency response out there so they're definitely a good starting point.

I know that, but I have never heard anything bad about the Fast Track Pro.  I know its no Apogee Rosetta but it's better than my built in output in my Macbook.  I am used to mixing in a acoustically treated control room running with Pro Tools HD I/O  but like I said, the owner sold the studio and now I have local clients that need me to mix and edit their work.  I need cans that are not so colored like my m50's, I am also buying foam and bass traps for my room.  It's a cramped bedroom filled with a crib, a loft bed, a 46" TV, and dressers. I had to move in with my grandpa after losing my job.  I'm trying to get something good enough to get me through school at Berklee Online until I move out to Cali and get my own place.  I appreciate the help though as I'm sure there are plenty of people that come on here asking if they should buy the Senn. HD800 to mix on garageband while running out of their built in headphone output.  I guess I'm looking for an upgrade from my m50's as far as better mix translation to monitors.

 

[mfrancojr]

Quote:

 

Try to get some K-702 used on the FS forum. Second, you can add a nice amp later on, no rush...

Thanks, I appreciate it. So from what you're saying, the Q's are just a gimmick?

 

[mfrancojr]

Quote:

Quite frankly, I would suggest to skip the cans and get better monitors...
 
I have never had good results with headphones when mixing a couple of tracks... and I'm talking about home recording material here not something you'll probably want to distribute/sell/etc... meaning a more critical approach would need to be taken (which is probably what you are doing... something more professional!)
 
If you are still going with headphones, I've heard good things about Grados RS2 and Sennheiser's HD600... I have personally never heard/used them in either a monitoring or just music playing situation... but I guess you could add them to your list and keep asking ppl for recommendations...
 
Thanks.

So you think the KRK RP8's G2 are not professional? I thought they would be a significant upgrade from my Behringer B2031A "pro" studio monitors.  The B2031A's color the crap out of everything even though they boast about having a flat FR.  I added the VXT8's to my cart but man they put me about $200 over budget.  I'm looking to get some monitors good enough for mixing for myspace or home made albums and writing music, and Cans that can be powered by my fast track pro/VRM box and allow me to waste less time going back and forth checking late night headphone mixes to my monitors and from monitors to headphones.  Unfortunately I'm not doing mixes/mastering for commercial radio so I can't afford Genelec's (yet) and I need some closed or semi closed so I can track vocals in my closet and mix them late at night while the kids and wife are sleeping but will make my mixes translate well to my monitors, then ultimately pass the boombox/TV/car check.

 

[Acix]

Quote:

Thanks, I appreciate it. So from what you're saying, the Q's are just a gimmick?

Maybe even a better gimmick

 

 

 

[mfrancojr]

Well I think with all your help I have decided to go with just the KRK-KNS 8400's along with VXT 8's for now and save money as I go to get some nicer closed back headphones paired with a better HP amp and D/AC.  I will definitely keep up on these boards and do more research. I'm sure there will be newer cans and amps when I'm ready to buy.  I'm glad I asked you guys before I bought the Q701's because now I can afford better monitors along with efficient enough cans(I know, not a good phrase here on this forum) that work for me now.

 

[tdockweiler]

Quote:

Well I think with all your help I have decided to go with just the KRK-KNS 8400's along with VXT 8's for now and save money as I go to get some nicer closed back headphones paired with a better HP amp and D/AC.  I will definitely keep up on these boards and do more research. I'm sure there will be newer cans and amps when I'm ready to buy.  I'm glad I asked you guys before I bought the Q701's because now I can afford better monitors along with efficient enough cans(I know, not a good phrase here on this forum) that work for me now.

Good choice! I didn't see your earlier post and that is what I would have suggested. The new KRK headphones are some of my favorite closed  headphones by far. I now only have the 6400, but it's still quite good and not such a huge downgrade from the 8400.
 
Just as a warning, the 8400 do need a few hours of burn-in out of the box if you haven't received them yet. They totally transformed within the first 3 days. I'm sure they'll still sound great out of the box.
 
I'm still looking to get the Shure SRH-940 just to compare the KRKs with something decent that's closed.
 
BTW you should let us all know what you think of them when you get them. It seems very few reviews of them are online unfortunately.

 

[mfrancojr]

Quote:

Maybe even a better gimmick

 

 

I read their review and that's what almost made me buy them.  But I'm not too sure about their curves because according to them, my m50's have slightly better bass than any of those AKG's. For a laugh look at the curve of the KNS-8400's yet even they claim the are very neutral.  Oh well.  One day I will own a super nice pair of cnas, until then, the KRK's will have to do so I can get a better set of monitors.  How long have you been mastering because I will be owning Ozone 4 and was wondering if you have experience with it?