[henkie196]

Not really looking for anything specifically. In terms of Stax headphones, at least - in terms of desired sound there are some specifics, of course.
 
And I wasn't really looking at the used market. Stax headphones are hard to find here, and definitely no easier to find on the second hand market. I just checked and it appears the price differences between EU and US have become smaller in the past few month (more expensive in the US, if I remember the prices correctly). The SRM-252s is around €500 here, an SR-207 is €449. If you want to go a bit upscale, the SR-507 is still quite reasonable at €899, but the accompanying SRM-006Ts drives up the price significantly with its €1599.
 
While I could afford that, I have some problems with the idea of spending more on an amp than on the speakers. I'm also not thrilled with the idea of being locked into sitting next to the amplifier if I want to listen to them, because there is no (trans)portable option.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  Not really looking for anything specifically. In terms of Stax headphones, at least - in terms of desired sound there are some specifics, of course.
 
And I wasn't really looking at the used market. Stax headphones are hard to find here, and definitely no easier to find on the second hand market. I just checked and it appears the price differences between EU and US have become smaller in the past few month (more expensive in the US, if I remember the prices correctly). The SRM-252s is around €500 here, an SR-207 is €449. If you want to go a bit upscale, the SR-507 is still quite reasonable at €899, but the accompanying SRM-006Ts drives up the price significantly with its €1599.
 
While I could afford that, I have some problems with the idea of spending more on an amp than on the speakers. I'm also not thrilled with the idea of being locked into sitting next to the amplifier if I want to listen to them, because there is no (trans)portable option.

 
Yes, I was asking what sound you are looking for.
 
No, it looks like the prices on STAXUSA.com are lower, factoring in the currency conversion.
 
Why not just buy on the Internet and import from whichever country gets you the lowest price?
 
You could easily get an amp that costs less than the headphones. I got an SRM-212 (which has the same specs as the SRM-252S) for $150. That's $400 less than the price you listed. The SRS-2170 (SR-207 + SRM-252S) is under $500 from this link. And here is another link where you can import STAX stuff from Japan for lower prices. You do not need to buy a higher-end amp with the higher-end headphones. You could, for example, get an SR-507 and an SRM-212 or SRM-252S. The SRM-323S (which has more output power) is about $550 here.
 
There is a portable STAX system here, but it's obviously not going to sound as good. Just use portable headphones elsewhere, then the serious headphones for home use.

 

[myaman]

Hello all,
I have been going over this thread for days now . Thanks for this treasure trove of information!
I'm in the market for a new set of over-the-ear headphones for metal music, but I also listen heavily to post rock music.
 
Here are some examples of what I mainly listen to:
 
Post rock: Leech (probably my favorite band), Mono, pg. lost, If These Trees Could Talk
Metal: Dark Empire, Primal Fear, Metallica, Iron Maiden, Persuader
 
Unfortunately, audiophile-grade headphones are not available in my country, so I gotta rely on my research and hopefully get as close as I can to the sound signature I like.
 
What I'm mainly looking for:
 
- Great sound stage and instrument separation
- Something not bass-heavy (I don't like it when the bass sound "overpowers" that of the electric guitar or vocalist)
- Something a bit on the "cold" side or neutral-sounding
- Something comfortable and light as I'll be wearing them close to 5 hours a day at work
- Preferably, but not necessarily, something that can be driven by the first generation Fiio X3, if not then an amp recommendation is also appreciated
 
I have narrowed down my options to the following:
 
- HE-500
- HE-400i
- Oppo PM-2
 
Was wondering if you guys could help me out with the selection process. Any other suggestions for the headphones are more than welcomed
 
My budget for the headphones is up to $600. Thanks in advance for your help
 
P.S. Are there any open-back headphones which offer some isolation to both the listener and the people close by?

 

[Hansotek]

Still, the 450 USD I paid for my HE-500 is the best bang for the buck value I think there is in the headphones world, period (maybe my Geek Pulse Sfi too).

Not to be an obnoxious STAX whore here (aren't I always? =P), but I paid $180 for that SR-207, and in my opinion, it annihilates non-electrostats in sheer transparency. Even when much more expensive headphones excelled in certain categories, I still never really preferred the others. When they had stronger bass quantity, the STAX struck back with higher quality of textured bass. When their instruments had more weight, it effortlessly revealed more nuance and detail, as if uncovering layers of mud weighing down the music. When others displayed greater impact, it calmly retaliated with more natural impact. And in every other category I care about (not counting soundstage), it won out no contest, for my own preferences. I'm normally highly critical of headphones to the point of causing far more controversy than any of my "plan posts" have. So needless to say, I am quite happy with the 'stat side of things. Despite my relentless enthusiasm for this magical world, I would honestly favor the current state of affairs where so many others don't enter it. Keeps things nice 'n' special for the STAX Mafia. ...Er, um, I mean, there is no Mafia. h34r:  

Let's be real here. You paid a ridiculously low price for that 207, so it's unrealistic to call that a fair "cost of acquisition" if we are compairing things fairly, IMO. I think the $450 SR2170 combo is more like the realistic cost entry point for most people, since electrostatic energizes aren't exactly commonplace.

The HE500 can easily be acquired for about $400, nowadays. I've even seen them down to $375 on the buy/sell forum.

I've spent a lot of time with the HE500 and I've listened to the SR207 on several occasions, and I think the 500 is easily, hands down the better of the two. Not even close, really. When you consider that it can be acquired for even cheaper, it becomes a no-brainer. Better sound and way better value = better headphone period. YMMV, of course, but this one seems pretty easy to me.

 

[Fearless1]

I've spent a lot of time with the HE500 and I've listened to the SR207 on several occasions, and I think the 500 is easily, hands down the better of the two. Not even close, really. When you consider that it can be acquired for even cheaper, it becomes a no-brainer. Better sound and way better value = better headphone period. YMMV, of course, but this one seems pretty easy to me.

As an owner of both, I concur.  HE-500 +a tube-hybrid amp is ridiculous good. 

 

[Hansotek]

Hello all,
I have been going over this thread for days now . Thanks for this treasure trove of information!
I'm in the market for a new set of over-the-ear headphones for metal music, but I also listen heavily to post rock music.

Here are some examples of what I mainly listen to:

Post rock: Leech (probably my favorite band), Mono, pg. lost, If These Trees Could Talk
Metal: Dark Empire, Primal Fear, Metallica, Iron Maiden, Persuader

Unfortunately, audiophile-grade headphones are not available in my country, so I gotta rely on my research and hopefully get as close as I can to the sound signature I like.

What I'm mainly looking for:

- Great sound stage and instrument separation
- Something not bass-heavy (I don't like it when the bass sound "overpowers" that of the electric guitar or vocalist)
- Something a bit on the "cold" side or neutral-sounding
- Something comfortable and light as I'll be wearing them close to 5 hours a day at work
- Preferably, but not necessarily, something that can be driven by the first generation Fiio X3, if not then an amp recommendation is also appreciated

I have narrowed down my options to the following:

- HE-500
- HE-400i
- Oppo PM-2

Was wondering if you guys could help me out with the selection process. Any other suggestions for the headphones are more than welcomed

My budget for the headphones is up to $600. Thanks in advance for your help

P.S. Are there any open-back headphones which offer some isolation to both the listener and the people close by?

Welcome! There are a few things in your question I don't quite understand, so I have a couple of follow-up questions:
1. What headphones are you using currently?

2. I'm trying to understand the comment about "looking for a cold/neutral signature" is about. The HE500, HE400i and the PM-2 would all be considered slightly warm/neutral. The bass will be well separated from guitars on all, though. Perhaps you can elaborate on what you like or what drew you to these conclusions.

3. FYI - none of these headphones will be well-driven by an X3 (still love the X3 though!).

 

[myaman]

Hello Hansotek,
 
Thanks for the quick response.
 
1) I'm currently using the Westone W4s, so this will be my first full-sized headphone. I have also tried a friend's AKG 712 Pros. They sounded fine, but left something to be desired in the sound stage and instrument separation department.
 
2) It may be I misunderstood/misinterpreted what "cold" or "warm" sound means. But to my understanding warm is having more bass/treble and/or sounding "heavier" rather than "lighter". Not sure if that answers your question
 
3) I suppose this means I need an amp as well. Although I would prefer a player with a strong enough built-in amp
 
 
Please let me know if anything is not clear

 

[flipper2gv]

  I swear, JPLAYmini 6.2 + Fidelizer 6.10 in Extremist mode sounds better to me than foobar2000.
 
 
Not to be an obnoxious STAX whore here (aren't I always? =P), but I paid $180 for that SR-207, and in my opinion, it annihilates non-electrostats in sheer transparency. Even when much more expensive headphones excelled in certain categories, I still never really preferred the others. When they had stronger bass quantity, the STAX struck back with higher quality of textured bass. When their instruments had more weight, it effortlessly revealed more nuance and detail, as if uncovering layers of mud weighing down the music. When others displayed greater impact, it calmly retaliated with more natural impact. And in every other category I care about (not counting soundstage), it won out no contest, for my own preferences. I'm normally highly critical of headphones to the point of causing far more controversy than any of my "plan posts" have. So needless to say, I am quite happy with the 'stat side of things. Despite my relentless enthusiasm for this magical world, I would honestly favor the current state of affairs where so many others don't enter it. Keeps things nice 'n' special for the STAX Mafia. ...Er, um, I mean, there is no Mafia.

 

 
I should have added IMO. I like the entry level Stax but they are a bit limited in tone for me.

Let's be real here. You paid a ridiculously low price for that 207, so it's unrealistic to call that a fair "cost of acquisition" if we are compairing things fairly, IMO. I think the $450 SR2170 combo is more like the realistic cost entry point for most people, since electrostatic energizes aren't exactly commonplace.

The HE500 can easily be acquired for about $400, nowadays. I've even seen them down to $375 on the buy/sell forum.

I've spent a lot of time with the HE500 and I've listened to the SR207 on several occasions, and I think the 500 is easily, hands down the better of the two. Not even close, really. When you consider that it can be acquired for even cheaper, it becomes a no-brainer. Better sound and way better value = better headphone period. YMMV, of course, but this one seems pretty easy to me.

 
Yeah mine was brand new at 450.

 

[Music Alchemist]

Let's be real here. You paid a ridiculously low price for that 207, so it's unrealistic to call that a fair "cost of acquisition" if we are compairing things fairly, IMO. I think the $450 SR2170 combo is more like the realistic cost entry point for most people, since electrostatic energizes aren't exactly commonplace.

The HE500 can easily be acquired for about $400, nowadays. I've even seen them down to $375 on the buy/sell forum.

I've spent a lot of time with the HE500 and I've listened to the SR207 on several occasions, and I think the 500 is easily, hands down the better of the two. Not even close, really. When you consider that it can be acquired for even cheaper, it becomes a no-brainer. Better sound and way better value = better headphone period. YMMV, of course, but this one seems pretty easy to me.

 
I certainly got lucky, but as I've mentioned before, I liked the SR-207 a lot more than all non-electrostats regardless of price. That includes the AB-1266, HE1000, HE6, and HD 800. So this type of thing is very subjective. For me, nothing else I've heard comes close to having as much value or sounding as good. I have no problem with others preferring other headphones, of course. But you and I both know that used electrostatic systems are all over the place. I saw an SR-207 for sale here for just $250 the other day.
 

  I should have added IMO. I like the entry level Stax but they are a bit limited in tone for me.

 
Hm, aside from the aforementioned issues we've discussed, I'm not quite sure what you mean about the tone...because it's the most realistic tone I've ever heard. 'Stats are the only headphones I've heard that sound like real instruments.

 

[CZ4A]

  Hello all,
I have been going over this thread for days now . Thanks for this treasure trove of information!
I'm in the market for a new set of over-the-ear headphones for metal music, but I also listen heavily to post rock music.
 
Here are some examples of what I mainly listen to:
 
Post rock: Leech (probably my favorite band), Mono, pg. lost, If These Trees Could Talk
Metal: Dark Empire, Primal Fear, Metallica, Iron Maiden, Persuader
 
Unfortunately, audiophile-grade headphones are not available in my country, so I gotta rely on my research and hopefully get as close as I can to the sound signature I like.
 
What I'm mainly looking for:
 
- Great sound stage and instrument separation
- Something not bass-heavy (I don't like it when the bass sound "overpowers" that of the electric guitar or vocalist)
- Something a bit on the "cold" side or neutral-sounding
- Something comfortable and light as I'll be wearing them close to 5 hours a day at work
- Preferably, but not necessarily, something that can be driven by the first generation Fiio X3, if not then an amp recommendation is also appreciated

 
Have you considered the NAD Viso HP50? They lean warm, but are pretty neutral overall. Good instrument separation and soundstage for a closed-back set, and nice bass without being overwhelming. The main issues people run into these is the fit and comfort - some people with larger heads feel they clamp too hard and the ear pads are a bit shallow. Try them if you can. I have no issues with the HP50 being driven by my cell phone, never mind an amp, but they do sound better plugged into my Sunrise.
 
I prefer my AKG K7XX over them, but availability may be an issue for you. I don't know how well they would be driven on your Fiio, either. They sound muddied on my phone. But with my Sunrise and a good tube like a black glass Tung-Sol 12AU7, now we're talkin'! Black headphones, black amp, black tube, blacker than the blackest black times infinity!

 

[Hansotek]

 

Let's be real here. You paid a ridiculously low price for that 207, so it's unrealistic to call that a fair "cost of acquisition" if we are compairing things fairly, IMO. I think the $450 SR2170 combo is more like the realistic cost entry point for most people, since electrostatic energizes aren't exactly commonplace.

The HE500 can easily be acquired for about $400, nowadays. I've even seen them down to $375 on the buy/sell forum.

I've spent a lot of time with the HE500 and I've listened to the SR207 on several occasions, and I think the 500 is easily, hands down the better of the two. Not even close, really. When you consider that it can be acquired for even cheaper, it becomes a no-brainer. Better sound and way better value = better headphone period. YMMV, of course, but this one seems pretty easy to me.

 
I certainly got lucky, but as I've mentioned before, I liked the SR-207 a lot more than all non-electrostats regardless of price. That includes the AB-1266, HE1000, HE6, and HD 800. So this type of thing is very subjective. For me, nothing else I've heard comes close to having as much value or sounding as good. I have no problem with others preferring other headphones, of course. But you and I both know that used electrostatic systems are all over the place. I saw an SR-207 for sale here for just $250 the other day.

 
Obviously, it's all very subjective. But you basically just reinforced my point. That $250 SR-207 (which is still up for sale) is the earspeaker only. Even if you scored the SRM-212 energizer for $150 (like you did) you're looking at a minimum $400 investment. If you score a good deal on an SRM252S for $210 (which is the price of the one I found on a quick search of the FS forum), you're looking at $460... which is essentially the same price as buying it new.
 
I'm not knocking STAX, here. I love my Lambdas. And you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  Obviously, it's all very subjective. But you basically just reinforced my point. That $250 SR-207 (which is still up for sale) is the earspeaker only. Even if you scored the SRM-212 energizer for $150 (like you did) you're looking at a minimum $400 investment. If you score a good deal on an SRM252S for $210 (which is the price of the one I found on a quick search of the FS forum), you're looking at $460... which is essentially the same price as buying it new.
 
I'm not knocking STAX, here. I love my Lambdas. And you're certainly entitled to your opinion.

 
True, but the HE500 is also going to be used with an amp. In the end, it all comes down to what sound signature you prefer.

 

[Fearless1]

@hansotek, do you still have your 500? If so you have to pick up a pair of the vegans for it as well, unbelievable transformation!

 

[Hansotek]

  Hello Hansotek,
 
Thanks for the quick response.
 
1) I'm currently using the Westone W4s, so this will be my first full-sized headphone. I have also tried a friend's AKG 712 Pros. They sounded fine, but left something to be desired in the sound stage and instrument separation department.
 
2) It may be I misunderstood/misinterpreted what "cold" or "warm" sound means. But to my understanding warm is having more bass/treble and/or sounding "heavier" rather than "lighter". Not sure if that answers your question
 
3) I suppose this means I need an amp as well. Although I would prefer a player with a strong enough built-in amp
 
 
Please let me know if anything is not clear

 
On #2, just so we can be clear:
WARM: Emphasis on the bass and low midrange
COLD: Emphasis on treble and high midrange
V-SHAPED or U-SHAPED: Emphasis on bass and treble
NEUTRAL: No emphasis on any frequency, sometimes combined with one of the above terms if the emphasis is slight
 
Thinking about a good recommendation for you... If you had a bigger budget ($1,200) it sounds like the new Enigma Acoustics Dharma would be right up your alley. I also think you would probably like the Mr. Speakers Ether and the HiFiMan HE-560. All of those are over budget and would require a separate amp... so no go there. Sometimes, it's possible to find an HE-560 right above your budget ($650 or so), if you have flexibility. You'd still need an amp though. :/
 
STAX is another route you could go. Not the biggest soundstage in the world, but separation is off the charts. The 2107 combo is only about $485 new. I know Music Alchemist loves it. Personally, I'd opt to save a little more and upgrade to the SR-407 (about $400) and get a SRM-1 mkii (about $350). If that's not within scope, you could get an SRM212 or the SRD-7 pro with a little tripath speaker amp to hold you over until you can afford to get the SRM-1 mkii or better energizer for the SR-407.
 
I know most of these options are sort of pushing your budget a bit, but you've asked for some pretty specific things, so it is what it is. The AKGs are generally an option to fit your requirements, but since you didn't like those, we have to work around it. Beyerdynamic is an option too, but the soundstage is even smaller than the AKGs. The price on the T1 has dropped quite a bit, but I have a hard time recommending that one because there is a huge treble spike, and I think the separation could be better.
 
FWIW, I like the headphones you mentioned (except the PM-2, which I haven't tried) but all of them will require an amp, and none of them really fit the description of what you were asking for. If you're looking for nice clean bass and warm, lovely lower mids, they're all great.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  U-SHAPED: Emphasis on bass and treble
V-SHAPED: Emphasis on bass, treble and one band of the midrange
 
Personally, I'd opt to save a little more and upgrade to the SR-407 (about $400) and get a SRM-1 mkii (about $350). If that's not within scope, you could get an SRM212 or the SRD-7 pro with a little tripath speaker amp to hold you over until you can afford to get the SRM-1 mkii or better energizer for the SR-407.

 
You mixed up U and V. V is when the mids are most recessed.
 

V-Shaped - The description of a frequency response curve for a speaker or headphone. In layman's terms it means more prominent lows and highs with a recessed mid-range, hence the "V" shape formed from such a sound signature. Similar to a "U" shaped response curve but is generally used to describe a more dramatic difference.

 
I really like the brown vintage military vibe of the SR-407.
 
Is the SRM-1/MK2 Pro usually $350? I would have sworn that during my research, most of the links (very few of which were active) were selling it for $450 and up. Some people told me it would be a better choice for the SR-009 than the SRM-323S, but it's harder to find.