[obobskivich]

The 80s were not my first headphone, but they were the headphones that proved to me that I can love headphones as much as speakers. Many of us love Grados, but there is a whole world of amazing products out there.

+1.

That said, nothing else will sound like a Grado - especially not a planar radiator.

 

[the5chord]

what is the deal with planar? why would you say that they are inferior in your opinion? I am going to try them myself this weekend but I am not sure the hifiman's are going to suit my musical tastes.

 

[Brooko]

Quote:

what is the deal with planar? why would you say that they are inferior in your opinion? I am going to try them myself this weekend but I am not sure the hifiman's are going to suit my musical tastes.

 
I think Obob's comment said that "nothing else will sound like a Grado" - not that they were inferiror.  At the end of the day it comes down to individual preference.
 
And I totally agree with him - nothing I've heard so far sounds quite like a Grado.  It is a unique (but for me very pleasing)  signature sound - whichy IMO goes incredibly well with Blues, Classic Rock, and even Jazz.

 

[Valicious]

The pair of 325is I'm looking at buying are 3 1/2 year-old first-generation ones.
 
"These are the first generation SR325i's.  They have the larger wire leads and the improved drivers, but the brushed aluminum cups.  As I described, they are about 3 1/2 years old, and I am not aware of any significant changes other than the polished cups on the one available for sale now.  The 'phones are in excellent shape, and have been in a smoke-free household.  I am the only owner, as these were purchased new from 6th Ave Electronics in NJ.  I am happy with selling these for $211.35"
 
Have there been any improvements to the drivers since then?  I plan on eventually putting woodies on anyway, so I'm not TOO concerned with the cups.

 

[xaval]

I'm listening to my woodied 325is as I type this

 

[Valicious]

Quote:

I'm listening to my woodied 325is as I type this

Ok, I'm gonna pull the trigger.  I'm assuming there hasn't been any improvements to new models of the 325is in the past 3 years.  I'm just afraid of buying these, and then realizing I should've gone with newer versions.
Just afraid of buyer's remorse

 

[Compa]

New fan here. I bought the GradoSR80i and I'm loving them

( I think we need the SR80i smiley since it's a best seller haha)

 

[obobskivich]

what is the deal with planar? why would you say that they are inferior in your opinion? I am going to try them myself this weekend but I am not sure the hifiman's are going to suit my musical tastes.

As Brooko said, I didn't say inferior.

The "deal" with any planar radiator (ESP, electret, planar-magnetic/orthodynamic, etc) is that they put out a very uniform "wall" of sound, compared to the conical pattern that will come out of a dynamic cone (which is what you'll find in every Grado ever made). This is a very different presentation on it's own, even if they had the exact same frequency response (which they do not), because of how the sound-wave will interact with your outer and inner ear. So just like how an Ultrasone with S-LOGIC will not image or position audio in the same way as any conventional headphone, neither will any planar radiator. Same thing with speakers - there are plenty of great-sounding speakers that use multiple drivers in various alignments, and there are also a number of planar/dipole models that are also great-sounding. But they produce a very different sonic image because of the difference in how they put sound out.

So not only should you expect to see a large difference in tonal balance (in that, nothing has the same PRaT, tonal balance, etc that a Grado does), but the difference in radiation will also change and influence the sound very heavily. I will tell you that flat-out, if you think your Grado headphones are the best sounding thing since sliced bread, nothing else will get you that same experience except another Grado. They're very unique. I say this to hopefully prevent a lot of dragon chasing - don't waste your time with other manufacturers trying to get "a better sounding Grado" - just get a better Grado. If there's *major* issues you have with Grado headphones (e.g. you hate their tonal balance), don't waste your time buying more expensive Grado models - try something else.

It all ultimately comes down to preference - do you like chocolate or vanilla or perhaps Neapolitan?

 

[Focker]

Quote:

New fan here. I bought the GradoSR80i and I'm loving them

( I think we need the SR80i smiley since it's a best seller haha)

 
Welcome!

 

[stacker45]

Quote:

As Brooko said, I didn't say inferior.
The "deal" with any planar radiator (ESP, electret, planar-magnetic/orthodynamic, etc) is that they put out a very uniform "wall" of sound, compared to the conical pattern that will come out of a dynamic cone (which is what you'll find in every Grado ever made). This is a very different presentation on it's own, even if they had the exact same frequency response (which they do not), because of how the sound-wave will interact with your outer and inner ear. So just like how an Ultrasone with S-LOGIC will not image or position audio in the same way as any conventional headphone, neither will any planar radiator. Same thing with speakers - there are plenty of great-sounding speakers that use multiple drivers in various alignments, and there are also a number of planar/dipole models that are also great-sounding. But they produce a very different sonic image because of the difference in how they put sound out.
So not only should you expect to see a large difference in tonal balance (in that, nothing has the same PRaT, tonal balance, etc that a Grado does), but the difference in radiation will also change and influence the sound very heavily. I will tell you that flat-out, if you think your Grado headphones are the best sounding thing since sliced bread, nothing else will get you that same experience except another Grado. They're very unique. I say this to hopefully prevent a lot of dragon chasing - don't waste your time with other manufacturers trying to get "a better sounding Grado" - just get a better Grado. If there's *major* issues you have with Grado headphones (e.g. you hate their tonal balance), don't waste your time buying more expensive Grado models - try something else.
It all ultimately comes down to preference - do you like chocolate or vanilla or perhaps Neapolitan?

 
That's great reading,very interesting point of view,i had the chance to hear a pair of HE-400 at the Montréal HI-FI show,and i remember liking them very much,also i believe that they have a very good price vs performance ratio.

 

[obobskivich]

FWIW, GoldenEars did a segment on how to read polar measurements:
http://en.goldenears.net/index.php?mid=KB_Columns&document_srl=459

They don't seem to mention them for headphones, and TMK nobody (except Ultrasone, internally) does polar measurements for headphones or really worries about it, but it still applies in principle. In other words, the way the RS-1 radiates outwards is going to look different than the way the ESP/950 radiate outwards (and I don't need a graph to tell me that); it does influence the sound too (also how the headphone interacts with your ear shape influences the sound - this is directly based on Ultrasone's research, which unfortunately has specific goals (namely how to develop and improve S-LOGIC; they aren't really interested in measurements/projections for all headphones like InnerFidelity or GoldenEars are)).

But all of this certainly plays into the headphone listening experience, and into how we hear (and how we hear headphones) in general. IEMs are probably the only "place" where such considerations stop applying, because they remove the entire outer-ear from the equation and just "inject" the sound straight into your ear canal. But you give up sound-staging for that.

And nowhere am I trying to pass judgment between Grado and HiFiMan or similar based on this. Just food for thought.

 

[madbull]

I bought a HP-1!!!
 
Must be arriving next week...

 

[lightsplease]

Just got my RS2is and they're really great. Thanks for all the info guys! Could anyone tell me a little bit about amps? Are they worth it for grados? Is there a thread or something that has combined basic info about amps and differences between popular portable amp/dac's? When I look through the "Portable Headphone Amp" section of the forums, I feel like I just get more confused and lost and can't seem to find any groundwork info. I'm interested on how they will change the sound when using my headphones and using an EQ with my macbook. 

 

[obobskivich]

Just got my RS2is and they're really great. Thanks for all the info guys! Could anyone tell me a little bit about amps? Are they worth it for grados? Is there a thread or something that has combined basic info about amps and differences between popular portable amp/dac's? I'm interested on how they will change the sound when using my headphones with my macbook. 

The quick'n'dirty (and potentially uncool) response: they won't really change the sound that much. You won't make them not Grados. Now of course you can make big, dramatic changes to the up-stream equipment (and often spend A LOT of money doing so), and see somewhat minor (but certainly measurable and audible) changes downstream, but I just don't see the value there.

If you don't like the way the RS-2 sound, get different headphones. If you like how they sound, enjoy them for what they are, and leave it at that (sort of tangentially: I see this trend so often where someone gets a pair of nice headphones and then wants to "accessorize" it - like people do with iPhones or whatever else, it seems a bit...nutty to me; if you're going to eventually tweak them, at least spend a few hundred hours getting to know them first, so you both know what you really want to tweak, and you have a reference for when you do start making changes (as was mentioned earlier in the mod discussion)). And this isn't meant to be combative - I've just seen a lot of noobies who buy XYZ headphone and will spend 2, 3, 10 times it's price buying cables, amplifiers, etc trying to "fix" that headphone, and at the end of the day that headphone is simply just not a good match for them. This is more meant to try and save you a lot of hair pulling out and cash-sinking.

Anyways, the community favorites for Grado cans are Melos amplifiers (which are not made anymore, but you can sometimes find them used), Grado's RA-1 (it comes in three versions, the base RA-1 (which is battery driven), the RA-1 AC (which is, as you probably guessed, AC powered) and the RA-1 HG (which is the "High Gain" version and you probably want nothing to do with this guy)), and the Maple Tree Ear+ HD. Basically all of these cost more than the headphones you have (except the battery RA-1). Grados are very easily driven and very stable loads at that, they play nice with all sorts of equipment (I've tried Grados on equipment ranging from mega-cheap to mega-buck, and I just don't see the reason to buy the mega-buck equipment for Grados).This doesn't mean nicer gear does absolutely nothing, but when you're talking a $300-$1000 pair of headphones that sound say, 98% "certified awesome" on equipment that costs less than, or as much as, they do, and say, 99% "certified awesome" on equipment that costs more than a new BMW...I don't know, I can't justify that. I'm sure someone can, but I'd rather put that money into something else (like another pair of cans!). Now if you have a lot of other "stuff" that benefits from the extra gear (e.g. you have an entire home theater and the headphones are just yet another gadget in there), then yeah it can start to make sense. This isn't ALL headphones either - Grados are in that rare trifecta of "comfy, good sounding, and versatile" imho. There are some cans that "care" more, but very few that seem to "care" less.

Now sure, logic should still apply here - you don't want bum pots or channel imbalance or clipping or whatever else. So if any of that is a problem with your current gear, then yes, upgrade.

In terms of portable kit (none of the above mentioned units, except the non-AC version of the RA-1, are even possible to be portable, and I would really not suggest taking an RA-1 on the road (the casing will get banged up pretty fast I would expect, and it's not exactly compact (by 1990s standards it was))), there's some nice battery driven units from FiiO, JDS Labs, and so on that you can look into - basically they'll let you make the headphones get louder than they already do with your PC or mobile phone, but if that isn't a problem (I doubt it is), I'd probably save the $50-$100 there too. They also mean more stuff to lug around, which may or may not be something you want to entertain. I'm not at all a fan of portable amps for home use - if you're going to buy an amp, buy an amp.

Also, welcome to the club!

 

[lightsplease]

^^^
Thanks for the reply! I see what you're saying with everything. I really enjoy the RS2i's and feel pretty satisfied. Was just curious about what the fuss was with amps and the likes. So would you say an amp is purely for volume gain at it's basics?