[VinMAC]

I have had the chance to compare a PS1000 with around 500 hours on and brand new one with 0 hours each other.

The difference in sound was immense. Especially in bass and groundtone...

 

[pkay]

I have had the chance to compare a PS1000 with around 500 hours on and brand new one with 0 hours each other.

The difference in sound was immense. Especially in bass and groundtone...

Which one did you like?

 

[piglet]

Spring is sort of here in the UK at long last. This leads to a huge increase in walking and cycling for me. I never use headphones or IEMs while cycling however I love using them while walking.

Yesterday was quite a nice day and Sunday so I went for a walk and to try them out in this context I took my SR325x cans. They sounded great with my iFi Audio xDSD Gryphon being used in bluetooth and USB mode with my iPhone 14 Pro Max. The Grado cans are open backed and they sit on the ears on those foam pads, so they are really open, there is very little isolation and for walking along the street or in a park that is very nice actually. That open wide soundstage seems to be sort of enhanced while outside. I didn’t use the bus as it was a leisure walk but I do use the bus a lot normally and I do like to have isolation in the bus. My Austrian Audio Hi-X60 are the perfect bus cans actually with a lot of passive isolation. I don’t think the SR325x cans are putting out a lot of sound, so most situations are good with them. I wouldn’t use them if I was sitting beside someone on a long train journey however, I think that would be inconsiderate.

When I go out I normally use either my Austrian Audio Hi-X60, my AKG K450 or my FiiO FH7 IEMs. I can’t see me adding the SR325x to the list because of one problem they have which is practically. I carry everything in a shoulder bag and the SR325x cans just take up so much room in the bag and they are difficult to get in and out of the bag. My Hi-X60 cans are a similar sort of a size but they fold very nicely and have a neat single-sided cable that takes up a fraction of the space of that of the SR325x cans. I have this plan to buy a motorhome and the SR325x cans would be superb for something like that actually. I’d get one of those cases that is the right size for them and they could travel packed away in the motorhome very nicely. However I can’t see me using them much for walks.

The most practical cans I have for walks and buses are my AKG K450 which I purchased in April 2011 and I’ve been using regularly since that time. They’ve had a couple of new sets of pads but the headband pad is original although cracked. They really are remarkably successful headphones actually although the bass on them can get a bit out of control on some tracks, but they do sound really very good and they are stunningly practical.

 

[plakat]

Sorry, that's really not my experience. I already expect every new Grado to sound great and surprise me when i unpack them. But in most cases they're not right there yet. Why does my brain trick me into not liking them initially? I usually have them running 24/7 for a week without listening to them and most Grados sound better after that. Some never get really better, like the White or the 80X.

It has happened too often to not be something real.

But everyone who cannot notice such differences can consider himself lucky as the process is annoying.

I certainly don't question your experience, I just think the mechanisms at play are not located at the driver but in our own firmware so to say
As you say, you expect each Grado to sound great -- that's the bias I mentioned. Then it sounds different from what you expected. Your brain registers that difference and calculates an offset to "great", applying that offset the next time you hear that same headphone. I think this effect is more pronounced with Grados as they sound quite different from most other headphones...

An example form my own recent experience: as you might have read in this thread, I've had several run-ins with the GS3000x. My initial expectation was guided by the GH2 and statements from several reviews as well as the German distributor. Then I had a defective model -- twice. Not an exactly nice first experience per se, plus it sounded *quite* different from what I expected. My local shop was nice and took them back, adding them to their demo pairs, which was OK for them since they did not have a GS3000x on demo.

Over the next few weeks (months actually) I tried them again and again, ultimately coming to terms and even liking them: now I spend most evenings with them, listening for sometimes several hours. Interesting thing was though: after I finally took them with me again, the shop told me that literally *no one* used them in the time they were with them. So they had maybe 1h more on them than when I heard them for the first time.

A bit different with my PS2000e, which I bought used (and well used, if I look at them...). My expectations were different, already knowing the GS3000x, plus they sound a bit more like my beloved GH2, so that was easier.

I also didn't like the GH2 that much when I first heard them, despite them being a well-used (but cared for) demo set. Now I love them -- OK, in that case it only took about 3 sessions to know I wanted to own them.

Another model I've tried multiple times but still can't get to like is the RS1-x. Out of interest I'll try again though

Anyway, my point is not that important overall. In the end the joy of music is what counts -- however one reaches that.

 

[VinMAC]

Which one did you like?

The burned in version much more...

 

[ilomilo]

I certainly don't question your experience, I just think the mechanisms at play are not located at the driver but in our own firmware so to say
As you say, you expect each Grado to sound great -- that's the bias I mentioned. Then it sounds different from what you expected. Your brain registers that difference and calculates an offset to "great", applying that offset the next time you hear that same headphone. I think this effect is more pronounced with Grados as they sound quite different from most other headphones...

An example form my own recent experience: as you might have read in this thread, I've had several run-ins with the GS3000x. My initial expectation was guided by the GH2 and statements from several reviews as well as the German distributor. Then I had a defective model -- twice. Not an exactly nice first experience per se, plus it sounded *quite* different from what I expected. My local shop was nice and took them back, adding them to their demo pairs, which was OK for them since they did not have a GS3000x on demo.

Over the next few weeks (months actually) I tried them again and again, ultimately coming to terms and even liking them: now I spend most evenings with them, listening for sometimes several hours. Interesting thing was though: after I finally took them with me again, the shop told me that literally *no one* used them in the time they were with them. So they had maybe 1h more on them than when I heard them for the first time.

A bit different with my PS2000e, which I bought used (and well used, if I look at them...). My expectations were different, already knowing the GS3000x, plus they sound a bit more like my beloved GH2, so that was easier.

I also didn't like the GH2 that much when I first heard them, despite them being a well-used (but cared for) demo set. Now I love them -- OK, in that case it only took about 3 sessions to know I wanted to own them.

Another model I've tried multiple times but still can't get to like is the RS1-x. Out of interest I'll try again though

Anyway, my point is not that important overall. In the end the joy of music is what counts -- however one reaches that.

I really don't want to start any animosities here but whenever someone says he is burning in something in regard to audio stuff someone else pops up and explains to him that it's all an illusion. But mind you, (almost) never the other way round! Just like there will be always some Android user that will attack/challenge you when you say you are using Apple products and (almost) never the other way round. I wonder why? What does Kant say about this?

 

[plakat]

I really don't want to start any animosities here but whenever someone says he is burning in something in regard to audio stuff someone else pops up and explains to him that it's all an illusion. But mind you, (almost) never the other way round! Just like there will be always some Android user that will attack/challenge you when you say you are using Apple products and (almost) never the other way round. I wonder why? What does Kant say about this?

O guess he would say that sometimes things considered common wisdom needs a challenge…
And disagreement doesn’t need to lead to animosity, does it?
Note that I explicitly don’t call it an illusion. My point is where the impression is coming from — which is why I added that in the end it’s not that important, since however one achieves pleasure from audio gear doesn’t matter too much.

 

[jonathan c]

I really don't want to start any animosities here but whenever someone says he is burning in something in regard to audio stuff someone else pops up and explains to him that it's all an illusion. But mind you, (almost) never the other way round! Just like there will be always some Android user that will attack/challenge you when you say you are using Apple products and (almost) never the other way round. I wonder why? What does Kant say about this?

... "all our knowledge begins with the senses."

 

[jonathan c]

In that vein ...

 

[rocketron]

I really don't want to start any animosities here but whenever someone says he is burning in something in regard to audio stuff someone else pops up and explains to him that it's all an illusion. But mind you, (almost) never the other way round! Just like there will be always some Android user that will attack/challenge you when you say you are using Apple products and (almost) never the other way round. I wonder why? What does Kant say about this?

Some acquire it early
Some acquire it late
Some never acquire it at all.

 

[piglet]

Some acquire it early
Some acquire it late
Some never acquire it at all.

I wish I'd got it earlier actually.

 

[Daniel Johnston]

I really don't want to start any animosities here but whenever someone says he is burning in something in regard to audio stuff someone else pops up and explains to him that it's all an illusion. But mind you, (almost) never the other way round! Just like there will be always some Android user that will attack/challenge you when you say you are using Apple products and (almost) never the other way round. I wonder why? What does Kant say about this?

Funny you used the Android/Apple analogy. There is such a stigma against Android phones in the younger community as to cause real anxiety over not having an iPhone. It's not good enough to have a phone anymore, it has to be the "right" phone. I feel plenty "looked down" upon with my Android phone by iPhone users. Google the whole green bubble iMessage issue. Anyway, this is way off topic.

When it comes to things like perception of sound and the objective measurements of what we hear, you'll never reach consensus. Yes driver break in is real, but is it really audible or substantial? I don't know. Nor do I really care.

Personally I found the GS1000x out of the box bright with no bass. I couldn't figure out why anyone would like these cans. After about 24 hours of play time (none of which was on my head), the bass was present and quite nice. Enough of a change for me to buy them. YMMV

 

[piglet]

Android user that will attack/challenge you when you say you are using Apple products and (almost) never the other way round.

I first encountered something like this in the 1980s when I was a motorcyclist. I and all the other motorcyclists would sneer at BMW motorcycles and their owners. The owners we so stupid, we'd say, paying all that money for something that didn't perform any better than our regular bikes. However the BMWs would run beautifully with very little maintenance, there was great consistency about them, they didn't change models every year so getting parts was very easy. The BMWs were actually lovely to ride, they didn't outperform the other bikes but they were simply a pleasure to ride in the real world with predictable handling. They were also very comfortable and easy to load up with luggage for touring. Now I realise that we were fools for knocking those BMW motorcycles. When I see an old beemer (that's what we called them) today from that time it is obvious to me what a beautiful and well designed thing it was and I laugh at myself for having been so foolish all those years ago.

 

[jonathan c]

OK, ESL-1 .... give us your take with air guns!!

 

[rocketron]

I first encountered something like this in the 1980s when I was a motorcyclist. I and all the other motorcyclists would sneer at BMW motorcycles and their owners. The owners we so stupid, we'd say, paying all that money for something that didn't perform any better than our regular bikes. However the BMWs would run beautifully with very little maintenance, there was great consistency about them, they didn't change models every year so getting parts was very easy. The BMWs were actually lovely to ride, they didn't outperform the other bikes but they were simply a pleasure to ride in the real world with predictable handling. They were also very comfortable and easy to load up with luggage for touring. Now I realise that we were fools for knocking those BMW motorcycles. When I see an old beemer (that's what we called them) today from that time it is obvious to me what a beautiful and well designed thing it was and I laugh at myself for having been so foolish all those years ago.

That’s a case of acquiring it later
I was exactly the same with VWs.