[ruinedx]

Totally disagree with this. If the HD800s was made of wood, it would sound like a TOTALLY different headphone. Same with any of the expensive headphones you've listed. Just a top flight headphone doesn't use wood, doesn't mean that wood doesn't change the sound.
Sennheiser, Focal, and others don't use wood because wood won't get them the sound that they want to achieve. If a violin was made out of plastic or carbon fiber, it would have a completely different sound signature and tonality. Same with headphones. The cabinet, or sound chamber that the driver resonates in has a resonant frequency. Wood has a different resonant characteristic than any plastic and vice versa. To say that wood is simply for aesthetic purposes is completely ignorant statement.

All of what you said is only true if the same driver is used in both enclosures and there is no attempt to tune the driver and specifically design the headphone innards for the enclosure material type. The driver itself and other properties of the headphone can be tuned to accommodate whatever material is being used to mount the driver in.

Wood is primarily for aesthetic purposes in headphones, yes. It's not that the wood doesn't impact the sound at all, its that a similar sound as a given wood headphone can be achieved via other means with no wood at all - hence using wood in the first place is an aesthetic choice.

 

[Pirastro]

All of what you said is only true if the same driver is used in both enclosures and there is no attempt to tune the driver and specifically design the headphone innards for the enclosure material type. The driver itself and other properties of the headphone can be tuned to accommodate whatever material is being used to mount the driver in.

Wood is primarily for aesthetic purposes in headphones, yes.

You can only tune a driver so much. EVERYTHING you do to a speaker, headphone, musical instrument, etc. will change the sound. You change the metal of a fine tuner on a violin and it will change the sound. Two different violins made to the exact measurements but using different wood grains will sound completely different. The enclosure of a speaker, which is basically the same thing as the enclosure of a headphone will drastically change the sound. We're not talking about the internal wiring here, we're talking about basically the cabinet of the speaker and resonant frequencies. Wood is used because it changes the sound of the headphone. Yes, it is also aesthetically different.

 

[FullBright1]

Using wood is, of course, aesthetic.

The HD800S are regarding as some of the best headphones you can buy and have zero wood. $3900 Focal Utopia - no wood... $59,000 Sennheiser Orpheus HE-1? No wood either.

The manufacturer may need to tune the headphone/driver differently to accommodate using woods, and differently again depending on type of wood - but the choice to use wood in the first place is an aesthetic one IMO.

There is something to be said , regarding the fact that after 100 yrs of making Speakers, wood is still being used.
They could use plexi, or fiberglass, or carbon, or stainless steel..... .and this is sometimes used ...sure.
However, wood is favored because wood is beautiful and it resonates.
It adds harmonic complexity, more or less or much more, depending on the hardness/density factor of the wood.

For example, you could fashion cups into the shape of a Beyer T1 headphone.
Make 4 sets.

1. Rosewood
2. Cocobolo
3. Koa
4. African Blackwood.

Use same drivers.

Now, in that list you have 3 very hard hardwoods. As a matter of fact, Cocobolo is so dense, it sinks in water, and will not float.
This means, if you are stranded on a deserted Island that has a Cocobolo forest available, then look for some high tech plywood instead, if you want to make a sail boat that floats you to rescue.
So, those 3 hardwoods, same cups, same drivers, will offer less harmonic content, due to density than the Koa, which is a more porous wood, and softer wood.

So what happens to the sound?
Well, a harder wood reflects sound faster, back at you.
A softer wood, dampens the reflection...or in other words, it reflects sound slower.
Regarding Tube amps, this hesitation between signal attack and response, is known as "Lag".

If you are going to buy a set of ZMF, and you want a rounder tone you go with a softer wood cup.
If you want your set to produce less "lag" and give you more attack and sonic snap, which is perceived as "crisp" then definitely go with a harder hardwood.
Same model.

So. you rate all this, as ATTACK., or how fast the sound comes back, from the back of the cup to the front where you ear exists.

The Headphone Science of Sound, uses graphs and charts and ears to tune the sound using whatever material is used as a Cup.
One of the reasons that a HD 800 is like a Treble Glasswork, is because the cups are non-harmonic material, no lag, and give you instant attack feedback into your sensory receptors that rest inside the cups.

A headphone cup, is a speaker box.
Material used to make the box, really matters.

 

[Pirastro]

There is something to be said , regarding the fact that after 100 yrs of making Speakers, wood is still being used.
They could use plexi, or fiberglass, or carbon, or stainless steel..... .and this is sometimes used ...sure.
However, wood is favored because wood is beautiful and it resonates.
It adds harmonic complexity, more or less or much more, depending on the hardness/density factor of the wood.

For example, you could fashion cups into the shape of a Beyer T1 headphone.
Make 4 sets.

1. Rosewood
2. Cocobolo
3. Koa
4. African Blackwood.

Use same drivers.

Now, in that list you have 3 very hard hardwoods. As a matter of fact, Cocobolo is so dense, it sinks in water, and will not float.
This means, if you are stranded on a deserted Island that has a Cocobolo forest available, then look for some plywood instead, if you want to make a sail boat that floats you to rescue.
So, those 3 hardwoods, same cups, same drivers, will offer less harmonic content, due to density than the Koa, which is a more porous wood, and softer wood.

So what happens to the sound?
Well, a harder wood reflects sound faster, back at you.
A softer wood, dampens the reflection...or in other words, it reflects sound slower.
Regarding Tube amps, this hesitation between signal attack and response, is known as "Lag".

If you are going to buy a set of ZMF, and you want a rounder tone you go with a softer wood cup.
If you want your set to produce with less "lag" and give you more attack and sonic snap, which is perceived as "crisp" the go with a harder hardwood.
Same model.

So. you rate all this, as ATTACK., or how fast the sound comes back, from the back of the cup to the front where you ear exists.

The Headphone Science of Sound, uses graphs and charts and ears to tune the sound using whatever material is used as a Cup.
One of the reasons that a HD 800 is like a Treble Glasswork, is because the cups are non-harmonic material, no lag, and give you instant attack feedback into your sensory receptors that rest inside the cups.

A headphone cup, is a speaker box.
Material used to make the box, really matters.

Well said, totally agree.

 

[ruinedx]

You can only tune a driver so much. EVERYTHING you do to a speaker, headphone, musical instrument, etc. will change the sound. You change the metal of a fine tuner on a violin and it will change the sound. Two different violins made to the exact measurements but using different wood grains will sound completely different. The enclosure of a speaker, which is basically the same thing as the enclosure of a headphone will drastically change the sound. We're not talking about the internal wiring here, we're talking about basically the cabinet of the speaker and resonant frequencies. Wood is used because it changes the sound of the headphone. Yes, it is also aesthetically different.

There is something to be said , regarding the fact that after 100 yrs of making Speakers, wood is still being used.
They could use plexi, or fiberglass, or carbon, or stainless steel..... .and this is sometimes used ...sure.
However, wood is favored because wood is beautiful and it resonates.
It adds harmonic complexity, more or less or much more, depending on the hardness/density factor of the wood.

For example, you could fashion cups into the shape of a Beyer T1 headphone.
Make 4 sets.

1. Rosewood
2. Cocobolo
3. Koa
4. African Blackwood.

Use same drivers.

Now, in that list you have 3 very hard hardwoods. As a matter of fact, Cocobolo is so dense, it sinks in water, and will not float.
This means, if you are stranded on a deserted Island that has a Cocobolo forest available, then look for some plywood instead, if you want to make a sail boat that floats you to rescue.
So, those 3 hardwoods, same cups, same drivers, will offer less harmonic content, due to density than the Koa, which is a more porous wood, and softer wood.

So what happens to the sound?
Well, a harder wood reflects sound faster, back at you.
A softer wood, dampens the reflection...or in other words, it reflects sound slower.
Regarding Tube amps, this hesitation between signal attack and response, is known as "Lag".

If you are going to buy a set of ZMF, and you want a rounder tone you go with a softer wood cup.
If you want your set to produce with less "lag" and give you more attack and sonic snap, which is perceived as "crisp" the go with a harder hardwood.
Same model.

So. you rate all this, as ATTACK., or how fast the sound comes back, from the back of the cup to the front where you ear exists.

The Headphone Science of Sound, uses graphs and charts and ears to tune the sound using whatever material is used as a Cup.
One of the reasons that a HD 800 is like a Treble Glasswork, is because the cups are non-harmonic material, no lag, and give you instant attack feedback into your sensory receptors that rest inside the cups.

A headphone cup, is a speaker box.
Material used to make the box, really matters.

Using instrument and speaker analogies are bad comparisons. A headphone driver sits 1cm - 1" from your ear (sometimes in your ear). The size of the the "box" is very small, and the back of it is open. The driver can be tuned in frequency response, positioning ,as well as surrounding materials added to affect that sound as desired.

This is not like a guitar that has a 2ft x 1ft giant resonating box that still has to sound good with whatever type of strings are bought at the local guitar shop.

Even ZMF who is arguably the most popular enthusiast wood headphone maker right now on their "wood" page - where they exhaustively list how each wood density can affect the sound - basically concludes with "buy whichever wood you think looks the best" because the sound difference is in reality minimal. You would think, if wood is indeed so critically important to the sound, then that would not be the conclusion, now would it?

This reminds me of the PC case argument for cases that exhaust out the top are "better" because "heat rises." Yeah it does, but it doesn't matter at all when the box is so small and you have multiple 120mm fans directing the air where it is desired to be exhausted.

 

[audiobomber]

Except the SR60 has an S cushion, which is also very thin, like the F. I do expereince the same. The HEMP is more sensitive.

Wood is primarily for aesthetic purposes in headphones, yes. It's not that the wood doesn't impact the sound at all, its that a similar sound as a given wood headphone can be achieved via other means with no wood at all - hence using wood in the first place is an aesthetic choice.

Really? And which headphones have you heard that sound like Grados?

One of the sites I frequent has a Disagree button. Too bad this site doesn't, because I would press it on every one of last posts. The earcup on a headphone is directly analogous to a speaker enclosure. Vibration cannot be eliminated, only controlled. Speakers and headphones are all about the resonances.

 

[ruinedx]

Really? And which headphones have you heard that sound like Grados?

One of the sites I frequent has a Disagree button. Too bad this site doesn't, because I would press it on every one of last posts. The earcup on a headphone is directly analogous to a speaker enclosure. Vibration cannot be eliminated, only controlled. Speakers and headphones are all about the resonances.

HD700 vs Grado RS-1. Done.

From ZMF headphones: (note the bold)
"ZMF uses only premium kiln dried hardwoods, which will remain stable for a lifetime of use. We tune all of our headphones to the same frequency response targets, regardless of wood type, so you hear the full timbre of each wood species.

Woods naturally vary in density. Softer woods have longer decay and natural resonance. Harder woods provide more speed and impact. Preference is subjective and personal, we suggest choosing based on aesthetic desires."

So it appears you also disagree with the manufacturer of the wood headphones. Not much reading between the lines needed here.

 

[elvergun]

No two different headphones are ever going to sound the same. Every single thing you change on a headphone or musical instrument will inherently change the sound. The Hemp is made out of hemp and the RS2e is made out of wood, that is a HUGE difference in how the driver will resonate in its chamber. Yes, having the same pad will make them more alike, but a pad will never simply make two totally different headphones sound the same.

My SR225i sounded exactly the same in the plastic cups as it does now in its wooden enclosure. If there is a difference, I would say that it is very subtle (definitively not a huge difference). I also heard no difference when I moved my SR60i to wood cups.

Then again, I did not have a stock SR225i to compare (back and forth) with the modified SSR225i. Two drivers...two different woods...very little difference. Perhaps there would be a bigger change if we were playing with a closed back model.

Edit: I do know that wood can make a difference (under the correct circumstances) since I did hear a huge difference when I replaced the plastic cups on my Denon D2000 with D5000 cups.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

This kind of confuses me. If a pad swap is all it takes to make one Grado sound like a different one, then wouldn’t that mean the big factors like the wooden chamber are really just aesthetic?

Will F pads make an RS2e sound like a Hemp and will L pads make a Hemp sound like an RS2e? Because if so, wouldn’t that mean the headphones are functionally the same and the differences amount to them looking cool in different ways?

Absolutely not.

Pad swaps will makes one sound "like" another one, in that it will have similar qualities, because on ALL headphones the pad changes make huge differences. However, speaker housing and material is absolutely a key part of them. If you've ever built speaker boxes you know that making one out of balsa wood is gonna leave you with a really different sound than MDF. They dampen differently, have different resonances.

But pads are like tips on IEMs. You can make really wild changes to the sound with them. Take the pads off entirely and you're gonna end up with a really, really weird sounding headphones. But no, they won't sound exactly the same as one another.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

HD700 vs Grado RS-1. Done.

From ZMF headphones: (note the bold)
"ZMF uses only premium kiln dried hardwoods, which will remain stable for a lifetime of use. We tune all of our headphones to the same frequency response targets, regardless of wood type, so you hear the full timbre of each wood species.

Woods naturally vary in density. Softer woods have longer decay and natural resonance. Harder woods provide more speed and impact. Preference is subjective and personal, we suggest choosing based on aesthetic desires."

So it appears you also disagree with the manufacturer of the wood headphones. Not much reading between the lines needed here.

HD700 sounding like an RS1?

Bruh I didn't even need to read past that to know I can disregard everything else because holy hell those two headphones sound absolutely nothing alike.

 

[G0rt]

HD700 sounding like an RS1?

Bruh I didn't even need to read past that to know I can disregard everything else because holy hell those two headphones sound absolutely nothing alike.

I use both RS-1e/G and HD700/Dekoni-Hybrid.

HD700 is about as close as Senn ever came to Grado, quirky and peaky and fun.

RS1e is about as close as Grado ever came to Senn, balanced and coherent and timbre-correct.

Not the same, obviously, but not polar opposites, either. I can easily enjoy both.

ATM, HD700 from my Valhalla2, Rippingtons catalog, and nothing wanting.

 

[audiobomber]

From ZMF headphones: (note the bold)
"ZMF uses only premium kiln dried hardwoods, which will remain stable for a lifetime of use. We tune all of our headphones to the same frequency response targets, regardless of wood type, so you hear the full timbre of each wood species.

Woods naturally vary in density. Softer woods have longer decay and natural resonance. Harder woods provide more speed and impact. Preference is subjective and personal, we suggest choosing based on aesthetic desires."

So it appears you also disagree with the manufacturer of the wood headphones. Not much reading between the lines needed here.

My statement that "The earcup on a headphone is directly analogous to a speaker enclosure. Vibration cannot be eliminated, only controlled. Speakers and headphones are all about the resonances." is in full agreement with the ZMF quote. You don't appear to have understood either mine nor ZMF's statement. The earcup material determines how it resonates, and therefore how it sounds.

 

[ruinedx]

My statement that "The earcup on a headphone is directly analogous to a speaker enclosure. Vibration cannot be eliminated, only controlled. Speakers and headphones are all about the resonances." is in full agreement with the ZMF quote. You don't appear to have understood either mine nor ZMF's statement. The earcup material determines how it resonates, and therefore how it sounds.

But as ZMF states, they tune the driver so that the headphone you buy hits the same sonic targets for the model no matter what the earcup material you choose is, which is why ZMF recommends picking the wood style you aesthetically like best...

...because aesthetics is the biggest difference between the wood types after tuning, hence ZMF recommendation. Again, not much reading in between the lines, it's right there on the website.

This is also why the HD650 can sound radically different than the HD800S despite both being made of plastic.

 

[ruinedx]

I use both RS-1e/G and HD700/Dekoni-Hybrid.

HD700 is about as close as Senn ever came to Grado, quirky and peaky and fun.

RS1e is about as close as Grado ever came to Senn, balanced and coherent and timbre-correct.

Not the same, obviously, but not polar opposites, either. I can easily enjoy both.

ATM, HD700 from my Valhalla2, Rippingtons catalog, and nothing wanting.

HD700 sounding like an RS1?

Bruh I didn't even need to read past that to know I can disregard everything else because holy hell those two headphones sound absolutely nothing alike.

SGD: Read less, listen more

 

[SomeGuyDude]

I use both RS-1e/G and HD700/Dekoni-Hybrid.

HD700 is about as close as Senn ever came to Grado, quirky and peaky and fun.

RS1e is about as close as Grado ever came to Senn, balanced and coherent and timbre-correct.

Not the same, obviously, but not polar opposites, either. I can easily enjoy both.

ATM, HD700 from my Valhalla2, Rippingtons catalog, and nothing wanting.

They literally sound nothing alike except "treble." That's the only similarity. The way the peaks work, the mid-scoop on the HD700, the wildly different bass characteristics, soundstage, the list goes on. I admit it's been a hot minute since I had my HD700s and longer still since I was able to audition an RS1 against them, but no. I cannot agree here. Calling the HD700 anything like a Grado because it's "quirky and peaky" is like saying a tuna casserole is like thai food because it involves noodles and sauce.

But as ZMF states, they tune the driver so that the headphone you buy hits the same sonic targets for the model no matter what the earcup material you choose is, which is why ZMF recommends picking the wood style you aesthetically like best...

...because aesthetics is the biggest difference between the wood types after tuning, hence ZMF recommendation. Again, not much reading in between the lines, it's right there on the website.

This is also why the HD650 can sound radically different than the HD800S despite both being made of plastic.

They said they're TUNED to the same TARGETS, but then immediately say that different woods affect the decay, resonance, speed, and impact. Like in the text you provided ZMF lists off the effects the wood has on the speakers. They do NOT say the difference between the actual wood is just aesthetics. They're saying that the way ZMF tunes the headphones is towards the same goal regardless of wood type, NOT that the wood is irrelevant to the sound. That's why they suggest buying the one you think looks nicest, because they're TUNED to be very similar. ZMF states, EXPLICITLY, that wood affects the sound.

I will never understand how people can literally post a block of text and then claim the text they're showing states something different from what everyone can read...