[fjrabon]

I fully agree about those who simply rely of graph measurements.  It always reminds me of Mark Twain's famous quote : "There are lies, damned lies & statistics !"

I mean don't get me wrong, I think measurements are useful. But there are a couple of problems: 1) most people don't really understand them. Or they think frequency response is the only thing that matters. 2) even at their best they can only clarify what experienced ears are hearing. Only in extreme cases can you look at a measurement graph and say "this is a poor headphone." And in those cases your ears would tell you how bad the headphone is long before a measurement graph anyway. Measurements should always be subservient to the actual "listening to music critically" test.

That being said, I do like measurement graphs because they can make things that audiophiles put in very vague terms more precise. "Bright" is a great example. You hear about Grados being bright. Some people call the HD600 "bright" but they have very different types of brightness. A cursory glance at a measurement reveals what's going on: HD600 has a 4kHz peak whereas Grados have a 10kHz peak. One is bright in a nasally way, the other in a splashy way. I'm sensitive to 4kHz more than 10 kHz, so the graphs clarify why I vastly prefer Grado brightness to HD600 brightness. Measurement graphs can also tell you if a headphone is "EQ-able" or if EQ will introduce distortion of extreme current drain on the amp. And any number of other useful things as well.

But if it sounds good it is good. I also think you should ALWAYS listen to a headphone before you look at measurements. Otherwise you will inevitably hear what you saw due to confirmation bias. I try to spend at least 8-10 hours with a headphone I am evaluating before I head over to innerfidelity. There's an occasional exception when I'm going to have buy before I can demo, in which case measurement based evaluation is simply a necessary evil.

 

[BobG55]

 

I fully agree about those who simply rely of graph measurements.  It always reminds me of Mark Twain's famous quote : "There are lies, damned lies & statistics !"

I mean don't get me wrong, I think measurements are useful. But there are a couple of problems: 1) most people don't really understand them. Or they think frequency response is the only thing that matters. 2) even at their best they can only clarify what experienced ears are hearing. Only in extreme cases can you look at a measurement graph and say "this is a poor headphone." And in those cases your ears would tell you how bad the headphone is long before a measurement graph anyway. Measurements should always be subservient to the actual "listening to music critically" test.

That being said, I do like measurement graphs because they can make things that audiophiles put in very vague terms more precise. "Bright" is a great example. You hear about Grados being bright. Some people call the HD600 "bright" but they have very different types of brightness. A cursory glance at a measurement reveals what's going on: HD600 has a 4kHz peak whereas Grados have a 10kHz peak. One is bright in a nasally way, the other in a splashy way. I'm sensitive to 4kHz more than 10 kHz, so the graphs clarify why I vastly prefer Grado brightness to HD600 brightness. Measurement graphs can also tell you if a headphone is "EQ-able" or if EQ will introduce distortion of extreme current drain on the amp. And any number of other useful things as well.

But if it sounds good it is good. I also think you should ALWAYS listen to a headphone before you look at measurements. Otherwise you will inevitably hear what you saw due to confirmation bias. I try to spend at least 8-10 hours with a headphone I am evaluating before I head over to innerfidelity. There's an occasional exception when I'm going to have buy before I can demo, in which case measurement based evaluation is simply a necessary evil.

I can see that & what you're saying makes sense.  What I disagree with is making the measurements the sole evaluation in deciding wether a HP is "worthy" or not.

 

[stacker45]

 
I can see that & what you're saying makes sense.  What I disagree with is making the measurements the sole evaluation in deciding wether a HP is "worthy" or not.

I personnaly don't care for graphs. If I didn't have a Grado dealer close by, I'd rely on the opinions of the Grado Jedis who's tastes are similar to mine.
 
I'm curious to know what THE ideal graph looks like. If it has to be as flat as possible, it would explain why some people's favorite Grados is the HP1000.

 

[headfry]

the ideal graph for headphones may as well be the ones for the SR325e and GS1000i as both of these
sound sublime to me....IMHO relying on graphs for headphones is an asinine way to judge them....
you heard it from me - listening to music is one of the greatest, most consistently enjoyable activity to me!
 
(take into account I listen at fairly low volumes and slightly eq the GS's to bring out the mids a tad more)

 

[joseph69]

  IMHO relying on graphs for headphones is an asinine way to judge them....
you heard it from me - listening to music is one of the greatest, most consistently enjoyable activity to me!

+1

 

[speedking]

  BATTLE OF THE GRADO 1000s - COMPARING THE GRADO PS1000, HP1000 (HP1), AND GS1000e
 
 

Spectral response of HP1000 (black) is flatter than that of PS1000 (blue) or GS1000 (red).
 

The hp1000 graph you shown is not axactly what "purrin" measured!
here is the original:

 

[cirodts]

I bought a sr225e but sound too cold and stark, the reader I have a iBasso DX80 in my mates badly with a degree, that I recommended player with a degree, I want a warm, detailed sound.

 

[ed7090]

I used to have a 325e and found it too cold for me too.
the e series has a much larger soundstage that sounds too holographic to me. 
when I was using the 325e at home I always suspect the sound came behind me... I cant stand anymore and sold it
 
Today I found a shop still got the 325is in stock so I bought it without a thought.
The old crowded soundstage is giving me a big hug now.

 

[bassboysam]

I bought a sr225e but sound too cold and stark, the reader I have a iBasso DX80 in my mates badly with a degree, that I recommended player with a degree, I want a warm, detailed sound.

ipod classic, one with a wolfson DAC.

 

[fjrabon]

the e series has a much larger soundstage that sounds too holographic to me. 
when I was using the 325e at home I always suspect the sound came behind me... I cant stand anymore and sold it
 
Today I found a shop still got the 325is in stock so I bought it without a thought.
The old crowded soundstage is giving me a big hug now.

here it is folks... the first time in history that somebody has complained that Prestige Series Grados' soundstage is *too large* and *too 3D*  
 
Put it down in your calendars baby and we will celebrate this day next year and every year thereafter.

 

[ed7090]

 
here it is folks... the first time in history that somebody has complained that Prestige Series Grados' soundstage is *too large* and *too 3D*  
 
Put it down in your calendars baby and we will celebrate this day next year and every year thereafter.

I mean - why dont I buy a beyer if i want something bright and wide.
Intimacy is the only reason for me to buy a grado.

 

[cirodts]

ipod classic, one with a wolfson DAC.

maybe I take a fiio x3 2 gen has a warm sound will be fine with grado

 

[GreenBow]

I thought the 225e became a nice warm headphone after sufficient burn in.
 
It does depend on source though. I found the Meridian Explorer to be more rich and warm than the Chord Mojo. It's close though between the two.

 

[trellus]

here it is folks... the first time in history that somebody has complained that Prestige Series Grados' soundstage is *too large* and *too 3D*  

Put it down in your calendars baby and we will celebrate this day next year and every year thereafter.

Ah, but that information is invaluable to me because I've been eyeing some used i-series Grados in the FS forum wondering whether I should pull the trigger on some 225i cans, thinking, "there can't be too much difference between these and the 225e, right?"

 

[GreenBow]

Ah, but that information is invaluable to me because I've been eyeing some used i-series Grados in the FS forum wondering whether I should pull the trigger on some 225i cans, thinking, "there can't be too much difference between these and the 225e, right?"

The i-Grado use the SR60i drivers, and many say they have the qualities of the SR60i. (Presumably the e-Grado moved to the SR60e drivers.) The SR60i was an espcially good headphone. Up to you. I have the 225e but might get a pair of e-Grado for portable use.