Going fully Wireless IEMs. Too soon? Or are we there yet?

[james444]

At maximum bitrate, SBC, aptX and AAC artifacts will all be below the threshold of human perception. However, aptX and AAC have more headroom in sound quality, so any fallback to lower bitrates (e.g. due to limited CPU resources, low wireless signal strength, or high wireless interference) will result in relatively better perceived sound quality for the latter codecs.

http://soundexpert.org/encoders-320-kbps

 

[Cosmosan]

I use CP100 but it was hard to get it on, so get the ones with bigger diameter. CP100 nozzle seems to be shorter than needed too, so get ones that longer (I cover the bottom part with foam to make up for the short nozzle)

Update impression for Mavin Air-X:
- call quality is good (tested in a silent room though)
- i can confirm around 35 hrs of battery with aptx
- might help with the fit when you push it in while pulling down the bottom part of your ear
- to change device, you have to keep pressing either button until you hear a double tone (I found out that while pressing: 1 tone = pause; 2 tone = connect mode; 3 tone = turn off that earbud)
- sound with stock tips = high treble, barely any sub-bass, wide sound-stage (quite surprising for my experience), mid is good, mediocre imaging
- sound with Dekoni / Comply foam = mellow high, more impact bass, a little warmer
*keep in mind I'm rating the sound based on their price range. It's quite good for my taste with this price. Certainly beat out Jabra Elite 65T Active IMO


I will keep using this for another week until my TRN BT20 MMCX adapter come.....I have a special project for these and will update with pictures if anyone is interested.

I pair Mavin with s8+ and Shangling M0....connection seems solid but it does drop sometimes. Not that much though.

35 hours battery life? Wow. Is that including recharge cycles with the case?

 

[webreaper]

35 hours battery life? Wow. Is that including recharge cycles with the case?

According to the website (https://www.mavinlife.com/) it's 10 hours per charge, and the case has up to 5 charges. Still impressive.

 

[chinmie]

naah.. even using spotify, switching between SBC and APTX (and between APTX to LDAC) on a same bluetooth device, i can hear the difference.

subtle? yes. but after knowing the difference i will always choose LDAC first, then APTX or AAC over SBC if the device permits it.

will that subtle differences matter or audible in noisy environments? no. I don't think so. even an FM radio is good enough for me for outdoor uses and i don't mind the degraded sound.

but still, if i have the option, then the higher codec for me

 

[dweaver]

I own a couple full size BT headphones. The 1000XM3 and NAD HP70 plus the neckband WI1000X. I can hear differences between the codecs when I switch. The Sony's sound their best from LDAC with a APTx HD following a close 2nd and then AAC, then APTx, and finally SBC. But some of things I notice probably come down to how that codec is implemented versus just the bitrate. For example I find APTx to have a harsh edge to it which seems to affect the sense of space.

The HP70 on the other hand does only APTx HD, APTx, ACC, and SBC. This headphone sounds best in HD and then AAC again because APTx has that harsh edge or digital quality.

Having said all this. I think these codecs can help a headphone but in the end the headphone still does the real heavy lifting. If it's not tune right the codecs will not save it. In that vein the 1000xm3 definitely has less detail than many headphones when I started to really compare it to my other headphones I was somewhat dismayed. BUT that design decision also allows it to work well in darned near any configuration because it never offends with harshness. The HP70 on the other hand struggles unless it has optimal codecs and source.

 

[SomeGuyDude]

naah.. even using spotify, switching between SBC and APTX (and between APTX to LDAC) on a same bluetooth device, i can hear the difference.

subtle? yes. but after knowing the difference i will always choose LDAC first, then APTX or AAC over SBC if the device permits it.

will that subtle differences matter or audible in noisy environments? no. I don't think so. even an FM radio is good enough for me for outdoor uses and i don't mind the degraded sound.

but still, if i have the option, then the higher codec for me

No you can't. I can believe between SBC and aptX because of the noise difference, but that's all. If I took your phone and switched codecs randomly you'd be blind guessing which is which.

 

[Damieni]

Anyone had much of a chance to test the Senn MTW's call performance? Just received my pair and enjoying the sound quality compared to the 65t's and RHA's, only concern is whether they would perform well for taking calls in noiser environments.

 

[Hoplite]

Anyone had much of a chance to test the Senn MTW's call performance? Just received my pair and enjoying the sound quality compared to the 65t's and RHA's, only concern is whether they would perform well for taking calls in noiser environments.

Is MTW 2 times better than RHA sqwise?

 

[chinmie]

No you can't. I can believe between SBC and aptX because of the noise difference, but that's all. If I took your phone and switched codecs randomly you'd be blind guessing which is which.

each to their own conclusions then. same can be said about cable changes or amps and anything else happening in audio world. some notice the difference, some don't, and each group will try to push their conclusions to the other group. both are just as bad for me. this is a hobby after all, whatever the person thinks work for them and make them happy

my wife can't tell the difference between dragonfly red output to the phone's output, and even when she really listens critically and found the difference, the price jump is not realistic for her. same goes to that magic stickers and rubber balls that audiophiles using. i can tell the difference, but on that case the difference is too small and the price is not realistic for me.

if you switch codec randomly, of course i would have a hard time knowing the difference, because as i said it is subtle and not a deciding factor.

i used to do recording and mixing. sometimes the client wants EQ changes that i think unnecessary, so i hold the EQ pot while saying "how's this? better?", and they usually would say yes... even though i didnt really turn the pot at all.

I'd take an earphone with good tuning and fitting but SBC only any day than something not of my preference but have LDAC capabilities. it would be good if it has, but other things are more important

for TWs, the order of importance for me is connection stability, fitting, battery life, then sound quality, button functions and ambient mode

 

[firewatersun]

Anyone had much of a chance to test the Senn MTW's call performance? Just received my pair and enjoying the sound quality compared to the 65t's and RHA's, only concern is whether they would perform well for taking calls in noiser environments.

Have had a few phone calls - you'll probably want to up your volume, call volume is much less than music. Audio quality is also not great at all, not sure if it's my phone settings, but clarity isn't amazing, and neither is your voice.

That said, it definitely works even in loud-ish environments, it's just not as good as some other TW headphones I've used (e8, Bragi Headphone wer both much better)

 

[Damieni]

Is MTW 2 times better than RHA sqwise?

All relative however I find them to be much more dynamic. The fact that Senn has a dedicated application and the ability to perform FW updates helps to future-proof them a bit too.

Have had a few phone calls - you'll probably want to up your volume, call volume is much less than music. Audio quality is also not great at all, not sure if it's my phone settings, but clarity isn't amazing, and neither is your voice.

That said, it definitely works even in loud-ish environments, it's just not as good as some other TW headphones I've used (e8, Bragi Headphone wer both much better)

Thanks, I did notice that I had to crank the volume most of the way up in calls! Had previously tried the Anker Liberty Lite as a cheapo entry level TW earphone however the call quality was rubbish when outdoors near traffic.

 

[kellte2]

All relative however I find them to be much more dynamic. The fact that Senn has a dedicated application and the ability to perform FW updates helps to future-proof them a bit too.


Thanks, I did notice that I had to crank the volume most of the way up in calls! Had previously tried the Anker Liberty Lite as a cheapo entry level TW earphone however the call quality was rubbish when outdoors near traffic.

Wonder if the low call volume can be ironed out in a firmware update.

 

[nc8000]

No you can't. I can believe between SBC and aptX because of the noise difference, but that's all. If I took your phone and switched codecs randomly you'd be blind guessing which is which.

Why is it so important to you to tell him what he can or can’t hear and how in the world have you any way of knowing what he can hear ?

The only thing you have any right to say is what you can hear.

 

[albau]

Unfortunately bad fit seems to be the case for me as well. But not because of the discomfort, but because I simply can't find proper fit, at least with supplied tips and fins. As you I have rather big ears, mine are also soft (to avoid word floppy ). Also as for you the SQ is all what I want in wireless IEMs. I know the sound is there because if I press the buds with fingers I can hear the good vibe with decent soundstage, non-boomy but present bass that doesn't bleed into mids, forward and clear mids and sufficiently detailed treble (maybe sometimes too hot for my liking on certain tracks). The best combo I found is XL stock tips and a big fin. This combo stays secure when I'm vigorously working the elliptical trainer or when lying on a press bench. Problem is with isolation, as evident by the need to manually press the buds into my ears to get optimal sound. Otherwise it becomes quite unbalanced - booming bass and too bright highs with sibilant vocals. I ordered some large SpinFits to see if they'll rectify the issue. If not, my MW07 will go back where they came from, though in all honesty I like almost everything else about them.

Well, turns out news about untimely demise of my mw07 were greatly exaggerated. Today I’ve got SpinFits and I’m a happy camper now! Ordered two types, both in in L - CP100Z and CP240 (double-flange). Both make huge difference for me in fit and isolation, and naturally as a result in sq, vs stock XL tips. CP240 is a little better in isolation and sound, but alas I had to reject them because they don’t fit in the case, lid just wouldn’t close. It’s same damn situation as with 65t case, you have to use short eartips. How hard it was for both Jabra and M&D to make the case some 3mm less shallow? Anyway, with CP100Z sitting snug in my ears I finally can hear all the potential of mw07! 3 hours on a charge or not but I just can’t return back something that sounds this good - engaging, dynamic, spacious and detailed. Very invigorating signature for the gym. No more relatively muddy mids, confined presentation of 65t and need to eq them. I even did a/b with my wired Westone W20 and to my ears mw07 beats them on most types of music except for classical. Of course my other wired iem set, Westone 4, is a different story. But still mw07 cured the Senn envy .

 

[eirunoopi]

Well, turns out news about untimely demise of my mw07 were greatly exaggerated. Today I’ve got SpinFits and I’m a happy camper now! Ordered two types, both in in L - CP100Z and CP240 (double-flange). Both make huge difference for me in fit and isolation, and naturally as a result in sq, vs stock XL tips. CP240 is a little better in isolation and sound, but alas I had to reject them because they don’t fit in the case, lid just wouldn’t close. It’s same damn situation as with 65t case, you have to use short eartips. How hard it was for both Jabra and M&D to make the case some 3mm less shallow? Anyway, with CP100Z sitting snug in my ears I finally can hear all the potential of mw07! 3 hours on a charge or not but I just can’t return back something that sounds this good - engaging, dynamic, spacious and detailed. Very invigorating signature for the gym. No more relatively muddy mids, confined presentation of 65t and need to eq them. I even did a/b with my wired Westone W20 and to my ears mw07 beats them on most types of music except for classical. Of course my other wired iem set, Westone 4, is a different story. But still mw07 cured the Senn envy .

Oh no. Now I’m trying to decide whether I should return mine or try out the CP100Z SpinFits. I’ve only got 2 more days until I can return them...

With these new tips, are they more comfortable? The wings also dig into my ears and I’m wondering if these will fix that problem. How have they changed the sound signature? And do they isolate well?

Cheers