[The Walrus]

Would you mind posting a photo of how those two cables look on the Elear/Utopia? Super interested in replacing the stock cable.

Sure. This is the stock cable for T5p. 1.4m, very light and quality material. For 99 Euros, I don't think it is overprices. Take a closer look at beyer's website:
http://europe.beyerdynamic.com/shop/audiophile-connection-cable-1-40-m.html 

. 

 

 

 

[TSAVJason]

Spoiler: off-topic so in spoiler

I've seen the dealer prices for high-end headphones. however, I understand dealers have to run a store and provide customer service and have people on the floor and make a profit. I am not saying that a dealer can survive based on discount pricing because they have additional costs to cover, but it does happen that sellers will have new items available for a discount and it is a legitimate deal. a lower price point does not automatically mean fraudulent or grey market as you are suggesting.

[size=1em]High-end headphones actually can be found on sale with warranty, though sales can be rare depending on the headphone brand as headphone manufacturer's often lock down the price point and do not allow dealers to advertise other price points in order to protect their brand name and product value. However, unsold inventory sitting on shelves is always a net loss for a dealer, and if they can't move product, they are not making money. After you are in this hobby for a while, you learn that you can always find a headphone cheaper than listed MSRP.[/size]


[size=1em]I think telling people that a high-end headphone on low sale is impossible and the company has to be fraudulent is inaccurate. These things do happen, though it is usually uncommon. I personally actually don't remember the last time I bought a high-end headphone at full MSRP (and I've owned almost every brand out there, and I never had any issues with warranty). The HD800 have been available at the $800ish price point in the past with full warranty for some lucky head-fiers here before and there wasn't any reports of issues with warranties or fake products.[/size]


[size=1em]this part of the discussion is off-topic, so if you want to continue to discuss, please PM me.[/size]

if anyone is concerned about warranty, simply purchase with a credit card that has warranty benefits. Typical official warranty for headphones are 1-2 years. if you purchase with a amex, discover, visa card, you will be covered for 2-3 years by your credit card company for non-abuse product failures regardless. if you are concerned about the company selling it, do the same thing and if the company doesn't take care of you, your credit card company will.

I personally think it may be inappropriate for an official spokesman for a dealer to question the legitimacy of another retailer. However, the original deal posting is unrelated to this topic's thread, so should not have been posted here in the first place. Hopefully, this conversation can focus back on the Utopia/Elear impressions.

In terms of a direct Utopia vs HD800S (I don't have an old HD800 on hand to compare), the differences primarily lie in sound stage and frequency response. Sound signature-wise, the Utopia has more bass, more present midrange, less sharp treble. The HD800S has a noticeably larger sound stage. Other factors like speed and detail retrieval are both excellent on both headphones. The bass differences between the two models, the HD800S has tighter bass notes and less visceral weight behind each bass note, while the Utopia has a bit more bloom to its bass notes but a very satisfying sense of weight and presence to its bass.

For those who find the HD800/HD800S sound signature to be too bass light or not being impactful enough, the Utopia with its different bass presentation and more forward midrange is definitely an option to consider. For those who are just interested in the overall largeness of the sound stage and enjoy a leaner sound signature and don't have issues with the HD800/HD800S treble presentation, likely will not find the Utopia to be worth the additional cost. For those looking for a budget alternative to both headphones, the Ethers do have a similar overall tuning and would be my first recommendation to check out. Otherwise, the T1.2 for those on a budget. Personally, I do think that a sub-$1000 modded HD800 is very hard to beat in terms of valueerformance, but depending on your sonic preferences, it may not be the right fit.

We have a difference of opinion. I've seen lots of people get burned and I can't agree with not informing perspective buyers when a non-authorized dealer lies or misrepresents. It has several ramifications. First the possible loss of warranty. Second a possible counterfeit product, 3rd failure to meet the requirement of the cc holder to receive warranty. 4th, giving the industry a bad name by virtue of guilt by association. The list goes on. If you feel that a dealer is making too much profit this is a fair opinion in a very few cases. Mostly the headphone industry is at 25-35% after shipping, damaged shipping losses, warehouse & display facilities and credit card fee costs. I don't feel this is an unfair profit and don't mind if you know what our profit is. Unless you're working out of a garage or basement you as a business person have a "fixed" overhead factor of 17% and more of your on the left or right coast. There is advertising, insurance. Employee taxes, workers comp insurance, business taxes and the manpower itself. So if making an average of 30 cents on the dollar is long profit you should start a store yourself and live the high life. Any MBA will tell you that 30 cents on the dollar is not sufficient margin to grow unless it's a true net. ...just an FYI.

 

[imac2much]

   
Are you a "fun" gamer or "competitive" gamer?  Fun gamers will probably like the Elear more vs the Utopia for competitive.
 
Quick and dirty difference:  "fun" is for visceral explosions in shooters, engine noise in racers, etc.  "Competitive" is for hearing footsteps in shooters and using virtual surround to identify where they are through walls and such.

Hm, good question.  Difficult since I actually do both now, haha!  I used to play only single player immersive games, which I found my ZMF Omni great for (Tomb Raider, GTA, etc).  But I think I've been playing nothing but Overwatch since the summer, so I guess I'm somehow a competitive gamer now... which is something I never thought I'd become.  I'm using the Elear right now and I think it sounds good; just wondering if the Utopia will be a step up.
 

I'll let you know about gaming either late tonight or tomorrow. I just received the Utopia this morning and immediately began burning it in with some music and left for work. They are still burning in as I sit here at work so I can't wait to get back and have a listen. Will try to fit in a gaming session somewhere.

 
Looking forward to your impressions!

Good question! Who buys $1000 headphones for gaming, or $15,000 surround speakers for movies? People do it; if gaming is something you enjoy, and you can afford it, go for it.

Btw, I finished writing more of my post, I just posted it half-written because I didn't want my phone to try to refresh the page and lose all the typing. Happens sometimes with longer posts and pauses to think.

Now, I demo'd the Utopias in a store, so the only audio I could play was music. Maybe an iPhone game, if I had really wanted, LOL! That said, I can extrapolate the sonic qualities to give you an idea of how it would be for gaming.

I game a lot with my HD800, so I'll use that as a basis for comparison. The HD800 is THE most comfortable headphone for my head I've ever worn, top of what I consider exceptional-class. It's light, doesn't trap and build up heat as much as most, it has amazing weight distribution, the pads aren't hot and sticky leather or scratchy or really wide, the ear is completely free from touching anything and getting sore, and it's almost as light as an AKG K712.

The Utopia isn't quite as easy to almost forget you're wearing it, but I still find it very good. Feels like a fullsized headphone, but not as heavy as I expect a fullsized closed headphone. Perforated pads didn't itch or bother me either. I could put in hours listening to the Elear or utopia without issue, the Utopia pads might actually be less irritating and more durable in the long run.

Sound wise, it has a similar benefit and effect as the HD800. Clean, effortless so it sounds less like you're listening to the headphone and more like you're listening to the game environment. There isn't an artificial reduction in treble, so it's not going to calm high-pitched gun cracks from CS:GO or Battlefield 4, but that low distortion means it can smoothly handle those sharp retorts without adding false grain. Depth perception is very good and (unless you're playing the BF1 beta, which has digital clipping issues) the audio won't become too chaotic that the Utopia can't reproduce the different things happening at once. The resolution would also suit virtual surround processing well, probably wouldn't be aggrivating plugged straight into something like the Creative X7 (Creative's stuff tend to have a slight brightness) but you'll know the Utopia is capable of more. I'd LOVE to hear the Utopia (and my HD800 for that matter) on the Smyth Realiser, hooked up to a Multibit DAC and some super amp.

Thanks for the comparisons; I went back and read your updated post as well  I never considered using an HD800 for gaming, but that's probably because I demoed it with my HA-1 which many have called bright in relation to other DACs and amps.  

 

[up late]

you've just inadvertently supported phonomat's argument. now let's move on.

 

[imac2much]

Spoiler: off-topic so in spoiler

 

 

In terms of a direct Utopia vs HD800S (I don't have an old HD800 on hand to compare), the differences primarily lie in sound stage and frequency response. Sound signature-wise, the Utopia has more bass, more present midrange, less sharp treble. The HD800S has a noticeably larger sound stage. Other factors like speed and detail retrieval are both excellent on both headphones. The bass differences between the two models, the HD800S has tighter bass notes and less visceral weight behind each bass note, while the Utopia has a bit more bloom to its bass notes but a very satisfying sense of weight and presence to its bass.

 

For those who find the HD800/HD800S sound signature to be too bass light or not being impactful enough, the Utopia with its different bass presentation and more forward midrange is definitely an option to consider. For those who are just interested in the overall largeness of the sound stage and enjoy a leaner sound signature and don't have issues with the HD800/HD800S treble presentation, likely will not find the Utopia to be worth the additional cost. For those looking for a budget alternative to both headphones, the Ethers do have a similar overall tuning and would be my first recommendation to check out. Otherwise, the T1.2 for those on a budget. Personally, I do think that a sub-$1000 modded HD800 is very hard to beat in terms of valueerformance, but depending on your sonic preferences, it may not be the right fit.

Hey man, good to hear from you again!  Thanks for your comparisons with the HD800S.  From when we last talked, weren't the HE1K your daily drivers?  How do you feel about the Utopia in comparison to the Hifiman?  I spent several hours with the HEK but only listened to the HD800 for 15 minutes before knowing the sound wasn't for me (not enough bass, too bright with Ragnarok).  I know most people say the HEK beats the Utopia in terms of soundstage while the Utopia is more "dynamic" - any other significant differences worth noting in your opinion?  How about imaging, bass quality and tonality?

 

[phase0]

Would you just go ahead and buy the most expensive headphone you can afford without listening to it first?)

 
Uhm... yes. I just did that.
 

 

[nordkapp]

Uhm... yes. I just did that.

haha. Classic.

 

[pervysage]

Holy moly...
 
I will just leave those two words for now.
 
Can't stop listening at the moment 

 

[thatonenoob]

  Hm, good question.  Difficult since I actually do both now, haha!  I used to play only single player immersive games, which I found my ZMF Omni great for (Tomb Raider, GTA, etc).  But I think I've been playing nothing but Overwatch since the summer, so I guess I'm somehow a competitive gamer now... which is something I never thought I'd become.  I'm using the Elear right now and I think it sounds good; just wondering if the Utopia will be a step up.
 
 
Looking forward to your impressions!
Thanks for the comparisons; I went back and read your updated post as well  I never considered using an HD800 for gaming, but that's probably because I demoed it with my HA-1 which many have called bright in relation to other DACs and amps.  

Not to derail too much further.  T1 is among the best for gaming.  Imaging is really spot on.

 

[Stillhart]

  Hm, good question.  Difficult since I actually do both now, haha!  I used to play only single player immersive games, which I found my ZMF Omni great for (Tomb Raider, GTA, etc).  But I think I've been playing nothing but Overwatch since the summer, so I guess I'm somehow a competitive gamer now... which is something I never thought I'd become.  I'm using the Elear right now and I think it sounds good; just wondering if the Utopia will be a step up.

 
Yes, it would absolutely be a step up from the Elear for gaming IMHO.  When I eventually get a Utopia, I'll be using it for gaming with no regrets.

 

[Currawong]

Guys, I've done musical chairs with some posts. 
 
This is an impressions thread, which means you should post your experiences with the headphones. All other discussion about them should go in the main thread here:
 
http://www.head-fi.org/t/811270/focal-elear-and-utopia-review-preview-with-measurements-head-fi-tv/

 

[pervysage]

Received the Utopia yesterday morning and has been burning in ever since. Up till now I'd say they have almost 36 hours on them. My feelings from yesterday have changed greatly and today has been quite a revelation. I am not the biggest believer of burn-in and all that but wow, I feel like I am hearing things I definitely was not yesterday. Placebo? Maybe I just wasn’t feeling all that great yesterday? No… I think they actually have broken in since that time.

Yesterday, fresh out of the box, I hooked them up to the Master 11 and immediately began burning in with some music. Did not listen to them at all and went to work. At work, all I could think about was heading back home and listening to them so during lunch break I did exactly that. Came home and listened to them for a very short 10-15 minute session which is not really enough to judge anything. All I thought was: Hmm… they sound very clear but nothing is really standing out or shocking me right now compared to the headphones I already have. And one thing that I noticed that wasn’t exactly a positive is that the sound was so closed in than I am used to (TH900 and HD800 which both throw a wide soundstage). Went back to work and when I got home I actually had a real listening session. This was about 10-12 hours on the Utopia now. Gave them a listen and still was not super impressed or anything like that. They sounded great, yeah, but nothing that really separated them from what I have already heard. They had opened up a bit soundstage wise and I noticed the sound was not as closed in as before. Finished listening and continued burning them overnight.

This morning I went to work again as the burn in continued. Soon as I got home, the Utopia was on my head again. I played a song and right away I could tell something had changed. Clarity of everything and instrument separation got a huge boost. Soundstage sounded wider once again and basically what I’m used to with my other headphones. I will have to do some A-Bing to compare sizes of the soundstage but like I said, I am not feeling like I am missing anything anymore when it comes to the soundstage which is saying a lot. I played several acoustic tracks that have various instruments: guitars, flutes, violins, piano. That is where my earlier post of “Holy moly” came from. I couldn’t stop listening to provide a detailed explanation of what I was hearing but wanted to share something at the same time because I was so excited! Instruments sounded so real and vivid and separated into their own space. I still have to do more listening and have yet to go back and A-B with my other headphones but right away, I can tell something is just DIFFERENT about the way Utopia does everything. The instrument separation is unique somehow, I don’t even know how to explain it, lol. Everything is separated yet the music is still one cohesive whole, it’s not artificially spread out at all. It’s pretty amazing to hear.

On the first day, the $5K question (yes, us Canadians have to pay $5K :O) was circling through my head (are they even worth it, maybe I shouldn’t have spent that much on these headphones after all, etc etc). They aren’t even separating themselves from my other headphones by that much, what is the point even….. After today, my opinion is completely changed. I have seen the potential of these headphones for sure. Another thing I’m excited about? This is all single ended. I know for a fact from running my HD800 and TH900 balanced on the Master 11 that it takes things up a notch. The balanced out on my Master 11 is definitely my preferred method of listening as it gives full power to the headphones and was designed to be used that way. Can’t wait until my balanced cables arrive because it will make the strengths of the Utopia even more apparent.

Currently taking a break from music and playing some Overwatch with the Utopia as well (Xbox One version). My Astro Mixamp for the surround sound connected to my Master 11 and then on to the Utopia. What can I say, it sounds great. One thing that I constantly say and think about the Utopia, CLARITY CLARITY CLARITY. They are just so clear sounding. And it’s not like headphones like the TH900 and HD800 are muddy or something… it’s just the Utopia is that much more so. The clarity really helps with hearing everything that is going on around you. I can easily tell where sounds are coming from around me and the Utopia has very controlled bass so the low frequencies do not cause you to lose focus on the action. They are just as good as the HD800 for gaming purposes (and HD800 are considered king in this field). And they are so clear sounding to me… so maybe even better than the HD800 in this regard.

Negatives? I’m not sure… I wouldn’t really call it a negative. Extreme bass heads might find that they lack bass? Coming from the TH900, I would not say they are “lacking” bass. They are well balanced and I agree with everyone who has been saying that the bass does kick in when the track calls for it. In the beginning listening sections, I did feel like I was hearing a lot of low end roll off, but it SEEMS to be filling out nicely. I will do some more listening and provide more thoughts on the bass soon. The Utopia in a way actually makes me appreciate my TH900 even more because I feel like for when I am feeling in that certain type of mood, I can throw them on and listen to my bass heavy hip-hop and EDM and all that stuff. But it’s not like the Utopia is bad with those genres. I just feel like I might prefer to listen to the TH900 when I want that heavy, hard hitting bass.

So having said that… are they worth $4K? That’s up to the buyer. If you have the disposable income and the Utopia suits your tastes, it is a fine headphone to have in your collection. I am pretty happy with my choice right now in taking the plunge. I think it will serve as the perfect complement headphone for my TH900. The HD800? I don’t know it’s going to sit on the sidelines for a while $4K is a lot of money and the Utopia doesn’t exactly give you THAT much ($2.5-3k extra) of a crazy improvement over other TOTL options. But just having heard what it’s capable of, I definitely want to keep the Utopia in my collection.

Also, you don't need a $10,000 system to get the best out of them. They are just as easy to drive as my TH900 which is a huge bonus as well.

Anyways, that was just a bunch of random stuff that came to mind just now. Hope it helps somehow! I will continue posting impressions and gawk over any further improvements in SQ.

 

[x RELIC x]

Spoiler: Warning: Spoiler!

Received the Utopia yesterday morning and has been burning in ever since. Up till now I'd say they have almost 36 hours on them. My feelings from yesterday have changed greatly and today has been quite a revelation. I am not the biggest believer of burn-in and all that but wow, I feel like I am hearing things I definitely was not yesterday. Placebo? Maybe I just wasn’t feeling all that great yesterday? No… I think they actually have broken in since that time.

Yesterday, fresh out of the box, I hooked them up to the Master 11 and immediately began burning in with some music. Did not listen to them at all and went to work. At work, all I could think about was heading back home and listening to them so during lunch break I did exactly that. Came home and listened to them for a very short 10-15 minute session which is not really enough to judge anything. All I thought was: Hmm… they sound very clear but nothing is really standing out or shocking me right now compared to the headphones I already have. And one thing that I noticed that wasn’t exactly a positive is that the sound was so closed in than I am used to (TH900 and HD800 which both throw a wide soundstage). Went back to work and when I got home I actually had a real listening session. This was about 10-12 hours on the Utopia now. Gave them a listen and still was not super impressed or anything like that. They sounded great, yeah, but nothing that really separated them from what I have already heard. They had opened up a bit soundstage wise and I noticed the sound was not as closed in as before. Finished listening and continued burning them overnight.

This morning I went to work again as the burn in continued. Soon as I got home, the Utopia was on my head again. I played a song and right away I could tell something had changed. Clarity of everything and instrument separation got a huge boost. Soundstage sounded wider once again and basically what I’m used to with my other headphones. I will have to do some A-Bing to compare sizes of the soundstage but like I said, I am not feeling like I am missing anything anymore when it comes to the soundstage which is saying a lot. I played several acoustic tracks that have various instruments: guitars, flutes, violins, piano. That is where my earlier post of “Holy moly” came from. I couldn’t stop listening to provide a detailed explanation of what I was hearing but wanted to share something at the same time because I was so excited! Instruments sounded so real and vivid and separated into their own space. I still have to do more listening and have yet to go back and A-B with my other headphones but right away, I can tell something is just DIFFERENT about the way Utopia does everything. The instrument separation is unique somehow, I don’t even know how to explain it, lol. Everything is separated yet the music is still one cohesive whole, it’s not artificially spread out at all. It’s pretty amazing to hear.

On the first day, the $5K question (yes, us Canadians have to pay $5K :O) was circling through my head (are they even worth it, maybe I shouldn’t have spent that much on these headphones after all, etc etc). They aren’t even separating themselves from my other headphones by that much, what is the point even….. After today, my opinion is completely changed. I have seen the potential of these headphones for sure. Another thing I’m excited about? This is all single ended. I know for a fact from running my HD800 and TH900 balanced on the Master 11 that it takes things up a notch. The balanced out on my Master 11 is definitely my preferred method of listening as it gives full power to the headphones and was designed to be used that way. Can’t wait until my balanced cables arrive because it will make the strengths of the Utopia even more apparent.

Currently taking a break from music and playing some Overwatch with the Utopia as well (Xbox One version). My Astro Mixamp for the surround sound connected to my Master 11 and then on to the Utopia. What can I say, it sounds great. One thing that I constantly say and think about the Utopia, CLARITY CLARITY CLARITY. They are just so clear sounding. And it’s not like headphones like the TH900 and HD800 are muddy or something… it’s just the Utopia is that much more so. The clarity really helps with hearing everything that is going on around you. I can easily tell where sounds are coming from around me and the Utopia has very controlled bass so the low frequencies do not cause you to lose focus on the action. They are just as good as the HD800 for gaming purposes (and HD800 are considered king in this field). And they are so clear sounding to me… so maybe even better than the HD800 in this regard.

Negatives? I’m not sure… I wouldn’t really call it a negative. Extreme bass heads might find that they lack bass? Coming from the TH900, I would not say they are “lacking” bass. They are well balanced and I agree with everyone who has been saying that the bass does kick in when the track calls for it. In the beginning listening sections, I did feel like I was hearing a lot of low end roll off, but it SEEMS to be filling out nicely. I will do some more listening and provide more thoughts on the bass soon. The Utopia in a way actually makes me appreciate my TH900 even more because I feel like for when I am feeling in that certain type of mood, I can throw them on and listen to my bass heavy hip-hop and EDM and all that stuff. But it’s not like the Utopia is bad with those genres. I just feel like I might prefer to listen to the TH900 when I want that heavy, hard hitting bass.

So having said that… are they worth $4K? That’s up to the buyer. If you have the disposable income and the Utopia suits your tastes, it is a fine headphone to have in your collection. I am pretty happy with my choice right now in taking the plunge. I think it will serve as the perfect complement headphone for my TH900. The HD800? I don’t know it’s going to sit on the sidelines for a while $4K is a lot of money and the Utopia doesn’t exactly give you THAT much ($2.5-3k extra) of a crazy improvement over other TOTL options. But just having heard what it’s capable of, I definitely want to keep the Utopia in my collection.

Also, you don't need a $10,000 system to get the best out of them. They are just as easy to drive as my TH900 which is a huge bonus as well.

Anyways, that was just a bunch of random stuff that came to mind just now. Hope it helps somehow! I will continue posting impressions and gawk over any further improvements in SQ.

Great impressions pervysage!

Regarding the clarity, I find it's not from any emphasized FR brightness, but rather the incredible technicalities of the Utopia. Love it.

Regarding balanced, hopefully I'll be receiving the Cavalli Liquid Gold within the month (man, that's been a long wait) so I'll also try hooking them up balanced if I get a cable with the proper connection. I'm considering chopping the stock cable to re-terminate balanced and making a pigtail for SE on the DAVE. I know the Utopia doesn't need the power of the balanced output but that's the primary design of the LAu so I want to try it. Might not get much volume control before I'm deaf though!

This part of your impressions is my favourite though:

"I still have to do more listening and have yet to go back and A-B with my other headphones but right away, I can tell something is just DIFFERENT about the way Utopia does everything. The instrument separation is unique somehow, I don’t even know how to explain it, lol. Everything is separated yet the music is still one cohesive whole, it’s not artificially spread out at all. It’s pretty amazing to hear."

I think you're hearing the incredible depth, imaging and dynamism here.

 

[phase0]

  On the Utopia, IMO, until you have 200 plus hours on them, you haven't heard them. To compare them to anything else, until they are broken in is like comparing Something that isn't a Utopia to something else. I haven't heard a headphone undergo such a change, as much. I have heard changes but not this up and down and then to finally to really open up but it takes some time. 

 

I can believe that. Mine are coming up on 48 hours now. I heard drastic differences from Day 1 listening to Day 2. Sound stage opened up and instrument separation started sounding almost magical. On Day 1 they sounded very closed in compared to what I am used to.

 
I'm really relieved to hear that. My first impression of Utopia with no burn in is a little meh. Yes they're great but so are my Audeze at 1/2 the price. When I think are these worth $4k and there's not a massive difference between the the ~ $2k Audeze up to $4k Utopia I'm a little disappointed THB after the hype.
 
One other thing about the Utopia, I *like* the long cable 

I plugged it into my big system in the other room to burn in over night and I really liked that I could refill my coffee and go kick back on the sofa without taking the headphones off. Everyone else with their short $1000 cables has to take them off and walk to get their coffee. Ha! I just got an adapter so I can try them with my Cowon P1 DAP. It's not bad. I want a short cable for that. Not sure where to go but there's a lot of suggestions in the history I'll hunt through...
 
jamato8 says I haven't heard them yet until 200 hrs so just gotta let them get some more run time on them. Hesitate to say anything since I'm probably at about 24 hrs on them now if I were to guess.

 

[guguplex]

Hi guys, anyone could say that the Utopias are better than the HiFiMan 1000? Better treble? better vocals? better mids? And the bass department? Haven't hear the Utopias yet but I think it's very difficult to beat the HEK in the bass region