[TSAVJason]

I don't get why people don't trust Focal to have put the best pads on for their Utopia's. I would think that after spending years developing it they would put the best pads on for their flagship. Not quite understanding why people want to second-guess their decision. I'm quite certain that having also developed the Elear, they would have tried swapping them and rejected them because they didn't do as good a job.

People are just tinkerers, I guess.

We experimented with pad swapping long before we did the product launch and all of us immediately agreed it was a bad idea in either direction. Utopia to Elear and Elear to Utopia ....no a good idea really

 

[AnakChan]

AnakChan

Have you had the chance to hear the WM1A fronting the Utopia? Or just the Z

I don't have the WM1A unfortunately. I could get access to the 1A but these are all in shops (open spaces, noisy for open cans et. al) so at least in my opinion, would be a trying test.

 

[JohnnyCakes]

I don't get why people don't trust Focal to have put the best pads on for their Utopia's. I would think that after spending years developing it they would put the best pads on for their flagship. Not quite understanding why people want to second-guess their decision. I'm quite certain that having also developed the Elear, they would have tried swapping them and rejected them because they didn't do as good a job.

People are just tinkerers, I guess.

 
 
in general i agree with you.  
 
but the same could be said about cables.  why would companies put crap cables on their top-shelf headphones?
 
problem is, when i put a Black Dragon cable on my Utopia, it made it a liiiiiittle bit better.  when i put the Elear pads on, it made the sound noticeably worse.  
 
but still..... 'twas fun to tinker.  i definitely learned a lot about how important pads are to the overall sound signature.  beforehand, i was skeptical.  no more.

 

[Allanmarcus]

 

My Impressions of Focal Utopia w/ Elear pads


thanks to hapnermw for selling me his Elear pads at a great price.  he tried them and didn't prefer them.  i am owner #2 of these pads. 


the first thing that i noticed when i put these on is that it did make the soundstage bigger, which has been noted.  i was surprised that pads could do this, honestly, but it really was my first impression.  this begets a more in depth discussion of the Utopia's soundstage, however, because everyone lists its "small" soundstage as the one and only negative of the Utopia.  whereas me, i definitely noticed it was a little cozy at first but then came to love it.  it feels like you're on stage with the musicians, standing right next to them!  and while the Elear pads made the soundstage bigger, it made them sound more distant and hollow.  as if the musicians moved further away from me but i was now listening to them thru a cardboard tube.  

overall, the Elear pads took away a considerable amount of the sparkle the Utopia provides.  and that is the very magic of the Utopia!  was the bass better?  not appreciably.  instead, it sounded like someone covered the mids and highs with a brown paper bag and therefore the bass was more noticeable because of that.  it deadened the sound.  

one track this was very apparent on was "Down to Ride" by Gary Clark Jr off his new live album.  i listened thru an MQA-enabled DAC via Tidal Masters.  with the Elear pads, it sounded like i was sitting about 10 rows from the stage.  with the stock Utopia pads, i was standing ON the stage!

but it's more than that..... the visceral realism of the Utopia was not there.  i love listening to pluckable string instruments (guitar, upright bass, banjo) on the Utopia because i swear you can hear the friction of an artist's fingerprints against the grain of the strings.  it's THAT exacting.  you can feel that initial air movement off the sting and feel the decay as it ages.  that is the magic of the Utopia.  and the Elear pads took that down about 75%.  with the Elear pads on this Gary Clark live track, the cymbals didn't sparkle like they did with the Utopia, and the electric guitar was not as hot.  it actually made me sad.  


again, i'm most surprised that ear pads can make this much of a difference!  i saw the freq graphs done by Jude and Tyll, but those don't do justice to the way the sound signature is changed, the EMOTION of the music.  and i'm always extra-vigilant about the powers of my own mind, placebo effects and all.... but to me, the Elear pads took away what makes me smile everytime i use my Utopia's.  


it was a fun experiment though, and one i'd like to continue on.  so if you'd like to try the Elear pads at a TWICE-reduced price now, shoot me a PM and we'll work it out.

I don't get why people don't trust Focal to have put the best pads on for their Utopia's. I would think that after spending years developing it they would put the best pads on for their flagship. Not quite understanding why people want to second-guess their decision. I'm quite certain that having also developed the Elear, they would have tried swapping them and rejected them because they didn't do as good a job.

People are just tinkerers, I guess.

 
"best" is somewhat relative. Please define "best". Does "best" mean flatest frequency response? Does "best" mean sounds best to the primary designer? Does "best" mean sounds best to a majority of designated listeners? How does Focal, or any vendor, know what sounds "best" is to me?
 
Each vendor tunes their products until the product achieves the sound the tuners desire. If that sound matches what you think is "best", then you have found a great product for you. If there were one "best", then we would only need one headphone, one amp, and one wife (whoops, how did that slip in there?
 
I have no doubt that Focal tried all sorts of pad options when they developed the Utopia and chose the current shipping pad after due deliberation and diligence. But that doesn't mean I can't swap pads and get a sound that I happen to like better.
 
You might very well ask why people are changing cables or not using the same DAC or amp, or source.

 

[TSAVJason]

"best" is somewhat relative. Please define "best". Does "best" mean flatest frequency response? Does "best" mean sounds best to the primary designer? Does "best" mean sounds best to a majority of designated listeners? How does Focal, or any vendor, know what sounds "best" is to me?

Each vendor tunes their products until the product achieves the sound the tuners desire. If that sound matches what you think is "best", then you have found a great product for you. If there were one "best", then we would only need one headphone, one amp, and one wife (whoops, how did that slip in there?

I have no doubt that Focal tried all sorts of pad options when they developed the Utopia and chose the current shipping pad after due deliberation and diligence. But that doesn't mean I can't swap pads and get a sound that I happen to like better.

You might very well ask why people are changing cables or not using the same DAC or amp, or source.

You're missing his point Allan. His real direction was it has been reported by many that swapping the Elear pad to the Utopia pad and visa Versa has shown significant curruption in certain frequency groups.

 

[Allanmarcus]

 

"best" is somewhat relative. Please define "best". Does "best" mean flatest frequency response? Does "best" mean sounds best to the primary designer? Does "best" mean sounds best to a majority of designated listeners? How does Focal, or any vendor, know what sounds "best" is to me?

Each vendor tunes their products until the product achieves the sound the tuners desire. If that sound matches what you think is "best", then you have found a great product for you. If there were one "best", then we would only need one headphone, one amp, and one wife (whoops, how did that slip in there?

I have no doubt that Focal tried all sorts of pad options when they developed the Utopia and chose the current shipping pad after due deliberation and diligence. But that doesn't mean I can't swap pads and get a sound that I happen to like better.

You might very well ask why people are changing cables or not using the same DAC or amp, or source.

You're missing his point Allan. His real direction was it has been reported by many that swapping the Elear pad to the Utopia pad and visa Versa has shown significant curruption in certain frequency groups.

 
I got that, but if the elear pads sound better to the listener, they are better for that listener. I just purchased the MrSpeaker estat pads to try on various cans, including the utopia. I don't have the original pads on my T1, nor my TH900. I found alternate pads that suit my tastes better. My oppo PM-2 has been heavily modified by Audio Zenith, and is way way better then the original. 
 
So no, I don't "trust" that manufacturer has made a product that is best for me, so I will experiment with other options (tinker, if you will) and verify.
 
Sorry, I don't mean to sound harsh. Re-reading what I wrote, it may sound that way. I was just making the point that there is nothing wrong with experimenting to get a sound that appeals to the listener.

 

[up late]

   
Simply because the Utopia and HE-6s are not meant to be closed fun sounding headphones. I can definitely enjoy that particluar sound signature, but this is not what we are talking about. Take a deep breath and read my comments slowly...no one was "critiquing" anything. I commented that the stock HE-6s (as voiced by Fang) were to be "neutral" headphones with appropriate levels of bass and sub-bass...and the Utopias are very much in line with that (although an improvement). Any more bass would no longer be that! Please stop reading things into my posts that are not there and take anything I say as a criticism to your particular favourite headphones.

 I did say IF his modded HE-6's have bass in line with your beloved TH-900s, then "whatever floats his boat"; meaning whatever he prefers is just fine for him. But I personally would not pay $4000 for an open backed pair of TOTL headphones with that sound signature. I (like pretty much most Utopia owners) want a more balanced and neutral sound at this level. 

 
you wrote: "If your modded HE-6s have more sub-bass, then you've modded them to have more than what is strictly "neutral". More in-line with the TH-900s/Fostex tuning. That is not a better thing to my ears as I want a more natural sound. But if this floats your boat, then great. I agree with you on the mids of the HE-6s...they kinda fail maintaining a proper centre stage and as a result become less resolving. Considering this is where most of the music is, this was a pretty big thing for me." it is an implied criticism because it is suggesting, albeit in an awkward way, that both the modded he-6's and the th900's accentuated bass doesn't constitute an improvement in sound as you hear it, and doesn't sound as natural as you would like.
 
that's beside the point, however. i don't have an issue with you perceiving the modded he-6 or my "beloved th900" in that way, but i'm genuinely interested in knowing whether you feel the same way about your mdr-z1r given that it too has accentuated bass. do you also regard it as a 'fun sounding" closed can? i happen to like the z1r fwiw and intend to give it another listen in the near future.
 

Tyll mentions he likes the Focal utopia with more bass so what piece of kit does he use to get this extra bass and does it affect the purity of the sound?

 
yes, tyll increased the utopia's bass presence to his taste by using equalisation

 

[buzzlulu]

I don't get why people don't trust Focal to have put the best pads on for their Utopia's. I would think that after spending years developing it they would put the best pads on for their flagship. Not quite understanding why people want to second-guess their decision. I'm quite certain that having also developed the Elear, they would have tried swapping them and rejected them because they didn't do as good a job.

+1
Agreed

 

[TSAVJason]

I got that, but if the elear pads sound better to the listener, they are better for that listener. I just purchased the MrSpeaker estat pads to try on various cans, including the utopia. I don't have the original pads on my T1, nor my TH900. I found alternate pads that suit my tastes better. My oppo PM-2 has been heavily modified by Audio Zenith, and is way way better then the original. 

So no, I don't "trust" that manufacturer has made a product that is best for me, so I will experiment with other options (tinker, if you will) and verify.

Sorry, I don't mean to sound harsh. Re-reading what I wrote, it may sound that way. I was just making the point that there is nothing wrong with experimenting to get a sound that appeals to the listener.

I'd say midrange corruption is a good reason not to experiment with the pads. Next time you see me ask me to demonstrate the ugly that happens when you swap the pads. ....maybe down the road someone or focal will make pads that don't corrupt the audio

 

[MacedonianHero]

   
You wrote: "If your modded HE-6s have more sub-bass, then you've modded them to have more than what is strictly "neutral". More in-line with the TH-900s/Fostex tuning. That is not a better thing to my ears as I want a more natural sound. But if this floats your boat, then great. I agree with you on the mids of the HE-6s...they kinda fail maintaining a proper centre stage and as a result become less resolving. Considering this is where most of the music is, this was a pretty big thing for me." it is an implied criticism because it is suggesting, albeit in an awkward way, that both the modded he-6's and the th900's accentuated bass doesn't constitute an improvement in sound as you hear it, and doesn't sound as natural as you would like.
 
that's beside the point, however. i don't have an issue with you perceiving the modded he-6 or my "beloved th900" in that way, but i'm genuinely interested in knowing whether you feel the same way about your mdr-z1r given that it too has accentuated bass. do you also regard it as a 'fun sounding" closed can? i happen to like the z1r fwiw and intend to give it another listen in the near future.
 
 
yes, tyll increased the utopia's bass presence to his taste by using equalisation

 
The Z1R has accenuated bass (never said it wasn't) and for a closed pair of headphones and has more bass (though NOT better) than the Utopias, I was looking for a more fun sound signature that included this. I don't want all of my headphones to sound the same and for closed headphones this type of signature (like the Z1R) was something I wanted to add to my collection. But if I could only own 1 headphone, it would be certainly more in-line with the Utopias.
 
More bass or sub bass does not mean "better"...just more when modded; that's all. I'm sure one could mod the Utopias (simply add the Elear pads to start), but at $4k, many folks are a bit apprehensive at doing this (and I don't blame them). But that would take away from a so very well balanced pair of headphones. 

 

[pervysage]

I got that, but if the elear pads sound better to the listener, they are better for that listener. I just purchased the MrSpeaker estat pads to try on various cans, including the utopia. I don't have the original pads on my T1, nor my TH900. I found alternate pads that suit my tastes better. My oppo PM-2 has been heavily modified by Audio Zenith, and is way way better then the original. 

So no, I don't "trust" that manufacturer has made a product that is best for me, so I will experiment with other options (tinker, if you will) and verify.

Sorry, I don't mean to sound harsh. Re-reading what I wrote, it may sound that way. I was just making the point that there is nothing wrong with experimenting to get a sound that appeals to the listener.

Thoughts on the Mrspeakers Electrostatic pads paired with the Utopia? (compared to stock)

Might get me a pair to try as well (seems they would fit my Fostex TH900 as well)

 

[Allanmarcus]

 

I got that, but if the elear pads sound better to the listener, they are better for that listener. I just purchased the MrSpeaker estat pads to try on various cans, including the utopia. I don't have the original pads on my T1, nor my TH900. I found alternate pads that suit my tastes better. My oppo PM-2 has been heavily modified by Audio Zenith, and is way way better then the original. 

So no, I don't "trust" that manufacturer has made a product that is best for me, so I will experiment with other options (tinker, if you will) and verify.

Sorry, I don't mean to sound harsh. Re-reading what I wrote, it may sound that way. I was just making the point that there is nothing wrong with experimenting to get a sound that appeals to the listener.

Thoughts on the Mrspeakers Electrostatic pads paired with the Utopia? (compared to stock)

Might get me a pair to try as well (seems they would fit my Fostex TH900 as well)

 
just got shipped from San Diego, so I'll hopefully have them for the weekend.

 

[TonyNewman]

HEKv2 arrived today and I am giving it a first try right now. Can't say too much with a fresh headphone, but some things do strike me right out of the box.
 

1. Bass is excellent. At least as good as my modded HE6, better than the Utopia (to my ears and on my gear - I don't want to start a controversy on that).
2. Sound stage is noticeably bigger than the Utopia.
3. Detail and dynamics are almost as good as the Utopia, but there is a gap there.
4. Utopia is the king of speed. HEKv2 doesn't embarrass itself in any way, but it can't touch the Utopia's blistering speed.
5. Smoothness. I love this. The HEKv2 immediately validates the reason for my move away from the Utopia - the forward and edgy presentation that causes fatigue for me with the Utopia is not a factor with the HEKv2.
6. Vocals. HEKv2 does really, really well with vocals. I have been rolling through some Rebecca Pidgeon and it is so very, very nice. Particularly from a fresh headphone. Should get even better over the next few days.

 
Will put some more hours on the HEKv2 and do a 3 way comparison this weekend.

 

[up late]

   
The Z1R has accenuated bass (never said it wasn't) and for a closed pair of headphones and has more bass (though NOT better) than the Utopias, I was looking for a more fun sound signature that included this. I don't want all of my headphones to sound the same and for closed headphones this type of signature (like the Z1R) was something I wanted to add to my collection. But if I could only own 1 headphone, it would be certainly more in-line with the Utopias.
 
More bass or sub bass does not mean "better"...just more when modded; that's all. I'm sure one could mod the Utopias (simply add the Elear pads to start), but at $4k, many folks are a bit apprehensive at doing this (and I don't blame them). But that would take away from a so very well balanced pair of headphones. 

 
i don't think anyone here is advocating that moar bass or sub-bass is "better" but that's how some folks prefer their cans to sound. and you don't have to physically modify the $4k utopia to increase its bass presence, just adjust the eq as tyll hertsen did. it appears that he prefers the utopia's tonal balance when the bass is increased by a few db. 

 

[jelt2359]

I understand the 'controversy' about sub-bass, but here's the thing, planars have always had a deeper sub-bass to me. I'm not sure why- and I don't think we can entirely put it to measurements. At least, not FR-style. Planars seem to portray bass differently, with a deeper, more pleasing decay and feeling fuller and deeper. On the other hand dynamic cans in general seem faster, and splendid at retrieving every ounce of micro-detail. While Stax seems more real, more holographic, lighter on its feet, but seemingly better at middle-detail than micro-details or macro-dynamics.
 
Another way to put this is, my dynamics (HD800+Utopia on my Apex Teton or EC Studio) are better with the easily-washed out white; my 009+DIYT2 is better with a million different shades of grey; and my planars (HE6+Audeze on my EC Studio or First Watt F7) are better with the deep dark blacks.
 
I actually think it's inherent to the driver technology, but that's just my two cents.