[MacedonianHero]

   
I don't think that the measurements of the un-modded HE6 have all that much relevance here. The performance in general, and bass performance in particular, is quite a bit better after the modding IMHO.
 
Still, I do agree on the Utopia besting the modded HE6 overall - it's just not my flavour of headphone.

 
FWIW, I've heard a few modded versions and my comments stand. I don't see how "flat down to 20Hz" can get any more "neutral", unless your particular pair is more on par with the TH900's sub-bass?

 

[Liu Junyuan]

I have the Utopia and HE-6 sitting right here on the same Woo stand. The modded HE-6 from the Bryston 2B has deeper sub-bass than the Utopia to my ears, though the Utopia has excellent punchy and detailed bass as well. From the ZDS, the Utopia is currently my preference. It is incredibly detailed, resolving, dynamic, and even spacious from this amp, adding a touch of warmth without sacrificing clarity.

However, the mids on the HE-6, though certainly less resolving, somehow move me more emotionally. I also don't think I have come near to exploiting the potential of the HE-6.

 

[zachawry]

At first the sonic image sounded really close in, as many people have described. 
 
As burn-in (cans or brains?) has progressed, though, it feels like the soundstage is no longer immediately next to my ears, but inside my head. In this sense, they seem like IEMs. Weird for a set of full-size cans to provide this "inside the head" experience. 

 

[nvfan]

 
Looks like MrSpeakers Ether ES Electrostatic Earpads are compatible with Utopia. Opens up the soundstage quite a bit, and is much more comfortable if you have big ears.

 

[Tobes]

   
I would beg to differ on the sub-bass comments...plus the measurements show them about equal as well. (FWIW, I used to own the HE-6s for a number of years, but like you, rarely listened to them and sold them off).

 
Regardless of measurements it is obvious to anyone comparing these headphones directly that the HE6's have the more extended bass.
Though Tyl's measurements show that particular HE6 to have a less extended right channel, the left is flat from 100 down to 20Hz. The Utopia shows a few dB of fall off over the same range.
I suspect it's that plus the HE6's bigger driver area that account for the deeper perceived bass.
 
This is not a big deal for me because, as you say, the Utopia certainly doesn't sound bass light and it's bass is faster and tighter - the Utopias sound excellent on Hip hop, rap, EDM etc.
But by comparison the former mentioned genres sound more extended on the HE6. However I still prefer the Utopias because I think they're better everywhere else.

 

[jelt2359]

I have the Utopia and HE-6 sitting right here on the same Woo stand. The modded HE-6 from the Bryston 2B has deeper sub-bass than the Utopia to my ears, though the Utopia has excellent punchy and detailed bass as well. From the ZDS, the Utopia is currently my preference. It is incredibly detailed, resolving, dynamic, and even spacious from this amp, adding a touch of warmth without sacrificing clarity.

However, the mids on the HE-6, though certainly less resolving, somehow move me more emotionally. I also don't think I have come near to exploiting the potential of the HE-6.

Agree on both. The he6 never fails to move me. The Utopia is more pinpoint and definitely faster, but the totality of the experience- visceralness, emotion, deep bass- goes to the he6 for me.

At first the sonic image sounded really close in, as many people have described. 

As burn-in (cans or brains?) has progressed, though, it feels like the soundstage is no longer immediately next to my ears, but inside my head. In this sense, they seem like IEMs. Weird for a set of full-size cans to provide this "inside the head" experience. 

I've said this before. The Utopia sounds like a multi-BA IEM. Fast, clean, detailed, small. It lacks the grandeur of the he6, which is the king of the hill for this in my book.

Regardless of measurements it is obvious to anyone comparing these headphones directly that the HE6's have the more extended bass.
Though Tyl's measurements show that particular HE6 to have a less extended right channel, the left is flat from 100 down to 20Hz. The Utopia shows a few dB of fall off over the same range.
I suspect it's that plus the HE6's bigger driver area that account for the deeper perceived bass.

This is not a big deal for me because, as you say, the Utopia certainly doesn't sound bass light and it's bass is faster and tighter - the Utopias sound excellent on Hip hop, rap, EDM etc.
But by comparison the former mentioned genres sound more extended on the HE6. However I still prefer the Utopias because I think they're better everywhere else.

Agree again. I also suspect the smaller driver of the Utopia allows it to be faster and more precise, like a BA driver. On the other hand it lacks in other areas.

 

[pervysage]

 
 
Looks like MrSpeakers Ether ES Electrostatic Earpads are compatible with Utopia. Opens up the soundstage quite a bit, and is much more comfortable if you have big ears.

 
Curious as to how these are put on? Aren't Utopia pads "snap-ins"?

 

[nvfan]

Curious as to how these are put on? Aren't Utopia pads "snap-ins"?

 
Like you would with most aftermarket earpads like Brainwavz HM5 (pictured above), you "pull" the cloth lip on the back of the earpads over the earcups until the acoustic cloth grill touches the baffle of the earcup.

 

[jbsu30]

Hi guys. I had the opportunity to try the Elear at my local shop (also HD650, HD800, HE560). It is gonna be mine this week.
It sounded good with my setup but as it is known, the Elear is easy to drive. I have a o2+odac combo.
So, my question is, what should I look for as a DAC and amp upgrade ? Schiit stack ? I'm not looking for high end part. 500/600€ for dac and amp would be good. 
Also if you guys don't think it is worth upgrading my o2/odac, I'm very much fine with it
Cheers

 

[supabayes]

Looks like MrSpeakers Ether ES Electrostatic Earpads are compatible with Utopia. Opens up the soundstage quite a bit, and is much more comfortable if you have big ears.

Nice. Time for some Utopia pad rolling. How are the treble/bass changed? More LF or HF? Can you show photo of the view of driver with the MrSpeakers pad?

 

[phaeton70]

   
Regardless of measurements it is obvious to anyone comparing these headphones directly that the HE6's have the more extended bass.
Though Tyl's measurements show that particular HE6 to have a less extended right channel, the left is flat from 100 down to 20Hz. The Utopia shows a few dB of fall off over the same range.
I suspect it's that plus the HE6's bigger driver area that account for the deeper perceived bass.
 
This is not a big deal for me because, as you say, the Utopia certainly doesn't sound bass light and it's bass is faster and tighter - the Utopias sound excellent on Hip hop, rap, EDM etc.
But by comparison the former mentioned genres sound more extended on the HE6. However I still prefer the Utopias because I think they're better everywhere else.

I have an Utopia and a slighlty modded HE6. the Utopia are driven by a custom 300B, HE6 are driven by a Pass X150.5.
 
to my ears, Utopia are at least equal in terms of bass extension, and much better in any other parameter. since I have Utopia, both HE6 and HEK are taking dust in their stands....

 

[phaeton70]

Agree on both. The he6 never fails to move me. The Utopia is more pinpoint and definitely faster, but the totality of the experience- visceralness, emotion, deep bass- goes to the he6 for me.

I've said this before. The Utopia sounds like a multi-BA IEM. Fast, clean, detailed, small. It lacks the grandeur of the he6, which is the king of the hill for this in my book.

Agree again. I also suspect the smaller driver of the Utopia allows it to be faster and more precise, like a BA driver. On the other hand it lacks in other areas.

 
have to disagree here for what I'm listening right now. to my ears (and of course YMMV) Utopia are giving me the best emotional experience I have ever had with cans.
 
one tricky point though could be the amplification. since Utopia are so easy to drive, many thinks they can be driven by anything. that's false in my experience. you need to have the right amp to get 100% out of these fantastic cans. low power tubes seems the way to go (45, 2A3, 300B), but there are also very good examples of SS amps working well with Utopia. and of course the cans must be very well burned in. at least 150h, better if more. the change in sound is by no means subtle.
 
with my custom 300B, Utopia are visceral, emotional, big and powerful, much better than HE6 in any areas. sorry, but my ears are telling me this, apart from any measurement. so at this point, I think the difference must be given by the modding, I have never experimented with deep HE6 mods, I have no manuality to do that. 

 

[jelt2359]

have to disagree here for what I'm listening right now. to my ears (and of course YMMV) Utopia are giving me the best emotional experience I have ever had with cans.

one tricky point though could be the amplification. since Utopia are so easy to drive, many thinks they can be driven by anything. that's false in my experience. you need to have the right amp to get 100% out of these fantastic cans. low power tubes seems the way to go (45, 2A3, 300B), but there are also very good examples of SS amps working well with Utopia. and of course the cans must be very well burned in. at least 150h, better if more. the change in sound is by no means subtle.

with my custom 300B, Utopia are visceral, emotional, big and powerful, much better than HE6 in any areas. sorry, but my ears are telling me this, apart from any measurement. so at this point, I think the difference must be given by the modding, I have never experimented with deep HE6 mods, I have no manuality to do that. 

Modding makes the he6 take the leap from good to great. Same for the hd800 imho.

I use a 2a3 amp from eddie current called the studio for the Utopia. It's a great fit, a huge soundstage and very holographic sound that makes the Utopia sound bigger and yet plays to its strengths in speed and precision.

For he6 I'm using the first watt f7. I also have other speaker amps, namely ear yoshino v12 and Hegel h20, but I prefer the F7 right now. It makes the he6 sound very musical, big, and real. Not as exciting as the Hegel and not as lush as the EAR but no weaknesses anywhere which is nice. It's the closest I can imagine getting to a speaker experience from headphones, which is not what I'd say about the Utopia despite its many strengths.

 

[daltonlanny]

Agree on both. The he6 never fails to move me. The Utopia is more pinpoint and definitely faster, but the totality of the experience- visceralness, emotion, deep bass- goes to the he6 for me.
I've said this before. The Utopia sounds like a multi-BA IEM. Fast, clean, detailed, small. It lacks the grandeur of the he6, which is the king of the hill for this in my book.
Agree again. I also suspect the smaller driver of the Utopia allows it to be faster and more precise, like a BA driver. On the other hand it lacks in other areas.

+1
I agree with you 100%.
The Utopia is technically better, but the HE-6 moves me emotionally in a way the Utopia doesn't, for some reason.
I can get more lost in the music listening to my HE-6 for some reason.
I don't feel the Utopia makes the HE-6 obsolete by any means.
I also find the bass extension superior and the subbass subjectively more powerful on my HE-6.
I played back 20 hz, 25 hz, and 30 hz bass test tones through both the Utopia and my HE-6, and they were cleaner and more powerful through the HE-6.
One major improvement the Utopia desperately needs is a wider soundstage. This area just isn't doing it for me at all.
Too forward, narrow, and claustrophobic...like an IEM.
Otherwise, besides the above issues, it is a world class headphone and worthy of consideration even at its steep price.

 

[MacedonianHero]

I have the Utopia and HE-6 sitting right here on the same Woo stand. The modded HE-6 from the Bryston 2B has deeper sub-bass than the Utopia to my ears, though the Utopia has excellent punchy and detailed bass as well. From the ZDS, the Utopia is currently my preference. It is incredibly detailed, resolving, dynamic, and even spacious from this amp, adding a touch of warmth without sacrificing clarity.

However, the mids on the HE-6, though certainly less resolving, somehow move me more emotionally. I also don't think I have come near to exploiting the potential of the HE-6.

 
If your modded HE-6s have more sub-bass, then you've modded them to have more than what is strictly "neutral". More in-line with the TH-900s/Fostex tuning. That is not a better thing to my ears as I want a more natural sound. But if this floats your boat, then great. I agree with you on the mids of the HE-6s...they kinda fail maintaining a proper centre stage and as a result become less resolving. Considering this is where most of the music is, this was a pretty big thing for me. 
 

   
Regardless of measurements it is obvious to anyone comparing these headphones directly that the HE6's have the more extended bass.
Though Tyl's measurements show that particular HE6 to have a less extended right channel, the left is flat from 100 down to 20Hz. The Utopia shows a few dB of fall off over the same range.
I suspect it's that plus the HE6's bigger driver area that account for the deeper perceived bass.
 
This is not a big deal for me because, as you say, the Utopia certainly doesn't sound bass light and it's bass is faster and tighter - the Utopias sound excellent on Hip hop, rap, EDM etc.
But by comparison the former mentioned genres sound more extended on the HE6. However I still prefer the Utopias because I think they're better everywhere else.

Regardless of measurements? 

 Tyll's measurements in the sub 200Hz are very reproducible (I know, I've tested his system). I'm sorry, but if we're talking stock HE-6, I'm going with the measurements (and my first hand experiences...which seem to link up). I don't like to talk about anything modded as it is always such a moving target and isn't fair if one is being tuned to one's tastes and the other isn't (likely because it's so expensive 

).
 
Great quote from a hero of mine Richard Feynman:
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself and you are the easiest person to fool." 
 
Measurements aid us from doing this....I've been fooled too a few times myself and find measurements help keep me honest.