[ClicketEKlack]

To me I would rank quality music source on par with headphones, a 50k system would just make poor quality / badly record music sound worse.
But yea, back on topic. Has anyone heard the Utopia out of the Mass Kobo 433? Trying to find a good quality amp thats also compact in size.

FWIW, the pictures of the Mass Kobo 465 flagship being demoed at one of the Can Jams showed the DAC Mr. Masuda chose to show off his amp to the world was an OG Topping D90. So one of the world's premiere amp designers was fine with a mid-fi DAC. Very telling.

 

[gerelmx1986]

My portable with utopia OG.

I meant cryo silver. What that exactly means i don't know

 

[up late]

sounds extra special

 

[Daniel Johnston]

I meant cryo silver. What that exactly means i don't know

They dip it in liquid nitrogen to align the metal crystals supposedly.

 

[Lx3A]

My portable with utopia OG.

That’s a pretty serious mobile setup, nice! Don’t forget to lick that coffee drip off the left pad!

 

[gerelmx1986]

They dip it in liquid nitrogen to align the metal crystals supposedly.

Is the only cable that i've heard that surpasses kimber kable axios copper, which i considered good.

 

[kkrazik2008]

That’s how much a Utopia costs. Is a cable that costs as much as the headphone truly justified?

No a Utopia costs $5k MSRP, obviously buying used it can be had for lower and have seen some go for $3k lately.

Justified is a subjective term, one can justify anything they want as they are only accountable to themselves. Can I use a $3k cable with other headphones? I sure can with short adapters, so this $3k cable is usable on four other headphones. Also one can wait when there are sales, for example Arctic gives decent discounts throughout the year, as do other cable companies such as DHC or Danacables.

You may not justify it for yourself, none of us are any authority to justify for others what is and is not worth it. This is unfortunately the ugly side of most hobbies when one person asks for suggestions from the group, suggestions are made, then the discussion turns into a turf war of sorts.

Is the Arctic I suggested justifiable? For me yes, if I did not already have the Lazuli Ref+. Could I get away with a lessor cost cable, for sure I can yet I won’t. I’ve heard the cables I suggested and there is a noticeable difference within my audio chain against the stock cable and mid-level cable from DHC, the Molecule Elite. Of those five, i picked the Lazuli Ref+ as the Arctic Euphoria had not been released yet. Once I got a chance to use it in my audio chain for a bit I have considered switching it out several times. I spec’d out a build and it was $2500, take 15% off and it’s $2,125 which is close to the cost of my Lazuli Ref+.

See, I justified the price because for my value system it’s worth it. I won’t discount your value system if you believe that is too much money and are content with your Lavricable. I have nothing but positive things for their stuff, great customer service and products. Personally if there is a US company, such as Danacable and Arctic, that is another factor to justify the cost.

To take this in a more contrarian direction, there are many who question how we can justify paying for a Utopia. There are other competing headphones which shine and cost less than a Utopia, yet it doesn’t matter one bit. It’s the equivalent of a fart in the night, if no one hears it, does it even fck’ng matter

 

[tjkohli]

No a Utopia costs $5k MSRP, obviously buying used it can be had for lower and have seen some go for $3k lately.

Justified is a subjective term, one can justify anything they want as they are only accountable to themselves. Can I use a $3k cable with other headphones? I sure can with short adapters, so this $3k cable is usable on four other headphones. Also one can wait when there are sales, for example Arctic gives decent discounts throughout the year, as do other cable companies such as DHC or Danacables.

You may not justify it for yourself, none of us are any authority to justify for others what is and is not worth it. This is unfortunately the ugly side of most hobbies when one person asks for suggestions from the group, suggestions are made, then the discussion turns into a turf war of sorts.

Is the Arctic I suggested justifiable? For me yes, if I did not already have the Lazuli Ref+. Could I get away with a lessor cost cable, for sure I can yet I won’t. I’ve heard the cables I suggested and there is a noticeable difference within my audio chain against the stock cable and mid-level cable from DHC, the Molecule Elite. Of those five, i picked the Lazuli Ref+ as the Arctic Euphoria had not been released yet. Once I got a chance to use it in my audio chain for a bit I have considered switching it out several times. I spec’d out a build and it was $2500, take 15% off and it’s $2,125 which is close to the cost of my Lazuli Ref+.

See, I justified the price because for my value system it’s worth it. I won’t discount your value system if you believe that is too much money and are content with your Lavricable. I have nothing but positive things for their stuff, great customer service and products. Personally if there is a US company, such as Danacable and Arctic, that is another factor to justify the cost.

To take this in a more contrarian direction, there are many who question how we can justify paying for a Utopia. There are other competing headphones which shine and cost less than a Utopia, yet it doesn’t matter one bit. It’s the equivalent of a fart in the night, if no one hears it, does it even fck’ng matter

Well said, and totally agree with you.

Definitely not a turf war — this is definitely a hobby with many opinions. You are further along in the maturity of your audiophile journey than I am, and perhaps that's where our mindsets differed initially; I'm still exploring headphones and amps whilst you're perfecting the rest of your chain. I have always been intrigued by the Lazuli as I think it's a beautiful cable and the American-made is a huge plus. That was definitely a driving factor in my decision to buy an Abyss recently.

 

[chesebert]

FWIW, the pictures of the Mass Kobo 465 flagship being demoed at one of the Can Jams showed the DAC Mr. Masuda chose to show off his amp to the world was an OG Topping D90. So one of the world's premiere amp designers was fine with a mid-fi DAC. Very telling.

I wouldn’t read too much into it. Many times amp manufacturers don’t have source with them so they just borrow whatever other exhibitors have around. Other times they will bring some cheap source because those are more compact. I have seen $10k amp demoed with some $500 dacs and some even demoed with dragonfly dongle.

Sometime they do it on purpose to show you what their amp sounds like with a crappy source so your experience can only go up from the show.

 

[jlbrach]

FWIW, the pictures of the Mass Kobo 465 flagship being demoed at one of the Can Jams showed the DAC Mr. Masuda chose to show off his amp to the world was an OG Topping D90. So one of the world's premiere amp designers was fine with a mid-fi DAC. Very telling.

or that was simply the easiest DAC to transport..when I was at canjam many of the high end products pared their gear with what appeared to me to be inferior equipment...I asked why and was told we simply couldnt transport larger more expensive equipent or they simply didnt have it

 

[chrisnyc75]

or that was simply the easiest DAC to transport..when I was at canjam many of the high end products pared their gear with what appeared to me to be inferior equipment...I asked why and was told we simply couldnt transport larger more expensive equipent or they simply didnt have it

Yeah, I think the Masskobo guy just couldn't be bothered to care what DAC he was using. His amp is so good it didn't even matter, and didn't warrant him spending money on something better.

But yeah, *most* of us concede that the difference between THE WORST and THE BEST dac is a few percent at most.

 

[chesebert]

At the risk of continuing this slightly off topic conversation, I would suggest it's actually:

1. Headphones
2. DAC/Amp
3. Power sources/converters/conditioners
4. Cables
5. Everything else

Power delivery is objectively more important than any cable or interconnect, if only for surge protection & impedance matching. Cables are highly subjective and hotly contested - personally I suggest ignoring all the noise and simply acknowledging that it is worthwhile to buy high quality cables if only to eliminate ANY weakness in your hifi investment. Also, expensive cables are often pretty and everyone likes pretty things. Everything else is gravy.

I think this list is useful for people who are starting out or are putting together a mid range system.

Once you have a pair of relatively good cans in the $1k+ range, a relatively transparent amp, a fairly sorted out power delivery system, the most important piece you can buy to elevate your listening experience would be your dac and streamer. The difference between $1k and $20k dac is significant. However once you are spending $30k+ on dacs they are more different in flavor and system matching than difference in actual quality. Streamers can be expensive and great or mid priced and great, so no real correlation between price and quality in my experience.

 

[jlbrach]

Yeah, I think the Masskobo guy just couldn't be bothered to care what DAC he was using. His amp is so good it didn't even matter, and didn't warrant him spending money on something better.

But yeah, *most* of us concede that the difference between THE WORST and THE BEST dac is a few percent at most.

no, not most of us...perhaps you do ..I think there is a big difference between DAC's and wouldnt use a Topping DAC with my equipment...not that I am denigrating the Topping at all..I own a Topping amp that is kind of a travel amp for me...it does the job

 

[jlbrach]

I think this list is useful for people who are starting out or are putting together a mid range system.

Once you have a pair of relatively good cans in the $1k+ range, a relatively transparent amp, a fairly sorted out power delivery system, the most important piece you can buy to elevate your listening experience would be your dac and streamer. The difference between $1k and $20k dac is significant. However once you are spending $30k+ on dacs they are more different in flavor and system matching than difference in actual quality. Streamers can be expensive and great or mid priced and great, so no real correlation between price and quality in my experience.

I would say once you are spending 30k on any audio component it becomes a matter of subjective likes and dislikes

 

[Coolmoose]

While many have characterized Topping DACs as “lifeless” or “boring,” my personal experience with several of their DACs has led me to perceive them as being very transparent. They neither augment nor diminish any aspects of the source; instead, they just present it in its original form, which I find perfectly acceptable. However, I do take issue with the fact that they release like 10 identical models each year that does the exact same thing.

But yeah, *most* of us concede that the difference between THE WORST and THE BEST dac is a few percent at most.

IMO, its impossible to identify the "best" or "worst" in a hobby thats based mainly on preferences. It's akin to asking what the best or worst music is.