riverground
Headphoneus Supremus
I honestly hope they’d be able to bridge that gap in performance. Let’s see what happens.
flinkenick's 17 Flagship IEM Shootout Thread (and general high-end portable audio discussion)
I honestly hope they’d be able to bridge that gap in performance. Let’s see what happens.
Vitaly2017
Headphoneus Supremus
I am very interested by planars I think a hybrid DD and planar would be epic!
I really want one, hope it also represents what we are demanding from it. The new level of sound quality
I really want one, hope it also represents what we are demanding from it. The new level of sound quality
normie610
Headphoneus Supremus
A well implemented planar without DD is preferable to me, as it eliminates coherency issues. It’s a matter of tuning I suppose.
riverground
Headphoneus Supremus
I second this. As more and more well implemented single DD IEMs enter the game. It’s showing people that if done well. Single driver IEMs can do some magic.
Vitaly2017
Headphoneus Supremus
No no ) tiger wants dd and planar lol both have very special sound waves I want them all at same time please ☺
My friend is looking for the best 150$ max iem and lower cost. What would be the best pick?
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Hidition Viento-B Impressions
I don't post in here often because I'm too busy with (as many would say) hit-and-running IEMs in my personal thread, but this is an IEM that I think deserves a spotlight. My first run-in with the Viento consisted of me trying to force-fit someone’s custom Viento-B; suffice it to say that was an excruciatingly painful experience. It was, however, enough to tell me that it would be an IEM that I’d be interested in hearing later down the line.
Hidition themselves hail from South Korea; they’re one of the most underrated manufacturers stateside due to having next to zero marketing presence. Also because, you know, they don’t have any employees who speak English. And because their website is a hot-mess. And because it’s more costly to buy from overseas. And because...well, you get the idea, I think. I myself only managed to snag a pair thanks to a friend in South Korea who was kind enough to proxy for me. So how does the Viento-B (henceforth referred to simply as "Viento") actually sound? Well, the Viento sports four balanced-armature drivers. Not to beat a dead-horse, but a larger driver count doesn’t necessarily translate to better sonic performance; the Viento is a prime example. It follows a reference-oriented curve, so think something like the ER4XR but with some extra sub-bass and treble tacked on.
The Viento’s got some of the better BA bass I’ve heard. It neither slams as hard as the U12t nor is it as textured, but it’s getting there. The Viento’s transient attack is definitely tighter than the U12t which has something of a gentle softness down low that I quite enjoy. The Viento’s probably not the IEM to buy if you’re going to be listening to a lot of EDM, but it’s more than respectable for a BA IEM in this respect. Of course, I went for the “B” model because it stacks ~5dB or so onto the stock configuration; it was basically mandated for my preferences. Tonally, I think it should be in that sweet-spot for most listeners, curving as it should by 200hZ.
One of the first things that caught my eye about the Viento was actually the midrange; I suspect that the Viento served as the inspiration for the Moondrop B2: Dusk’s midrange. Mind you, that’s not a bad thing at all considering the Dusk has one of the best midrange tonalities I’ve heard. Subjective listening, however, is another matter entirely. To this end, the Viento is considerably more upper-midrange tilted, thinner, and to the point of which it borders on sibilance at times to my ears. I don’t think it’s bad, but it does leave something to be desired in this respect. On the bright side, vocal intelligibility is excellent, paying foil to my U12t which dips strongly in this region. Perhaps most notable, though, is the sheer texture present to the midrange. And I’m not talking about the crappy “grain” generally associated with most BA IEMs. The likes of Scotty McCreery, Joe Nichols, and Dierks Bentley, for example, all fly really well with between this note texture and the leaner lower-midrange. So while I don’t love the Viento’s midrange, I don’t hate it either, and it could be a whole lot worse.
The treble of the Viento is mid-treble emphasized with copious amounts of crash and sparkle. It’s pushing it here, I think, but it does work. While I haven’t sine-sweeped the Viento yet, I’d say extension is sufficient, albeit not matching some of the best stuff I’ve heard in this department. Really, what makes it somewhat hard to tell is that the Viento has something of a splashiness, or resonance, to the way a lot of treble instruments decay. I suppose in this vein it’s quite realistic and paying homage to its “reference” roots; however, I still think this could have been reigned in a tad, as I could see it being fatiguing.
On paper, the tonality of the Viento is exceptional; however, I do feel let down by these issues (which are both rectified by the custom version, so I’m told). Thankfully, the Viento is a technical performer too, and where it excels most is coherency: The Viento may just be the most coherent IEM I’ve heard. Everything syncs into place seamlessly; I fail to discern anything that sounds disjoint or out of place, and that’s something that I can’t help but admire. Even something like the U12t, because of its tia driver, doesn’t get quite this close, much less any other hybrid IEM I’ve heard. The macrodynamic ability of the Viento is definitely not in the same ballpark as the U12t - the Viento sounds somewhat dry, upwards-compressed by comparison - but its microdynamic ability is surprisingly good, and I think it easily gives the U12t a run for its money in this department, if not even surpasses it. Vocal inflections, minute instrument shifts - stuff of that nature - just fly really well on the Viento. That’s something I can definitely get behind. Staging is pretty average; overall imaging is on the “above-average” side of things with sufficient incisiveness to the violins panned to the left/right corners of the center image on Sawano Hiroyuki's "Binary Star" and decent diffusal of the center image itself.
I think what impresses me most of all, then, is the fact that this is a 6+ year old design. I’ve been told that there might’ve been some slight modifications along the way; however, don’t let that discount how mind-blowing that is an industry that moves so quickly. Furthermore, I’ve consistently drawn comparisons with my 64 Audio U12t because it’s my other personal, flagship IEM and represents - to me only, mind you - the near-pinnacle of portable fidelity. The Viento's the real deal. It’s an IEM that’s stood the test of time and still has what it takes to trade punches with the best in the game; it’s not hard to see why it’s garnered a stellar reputation in core IEM communities.
Score: 6/10
I don't post in here often because I'm too busy with (as many would say) hit-and-running IEMs in my personal thread, but this is an IEM that I think deserves a spotlight. My first run-in with the Viento consisted of me trying to force-fit someone’s custom Viento-B; suffice it to say that was an excruciatingly painful experience. It was, however, enough to tell me that it would be an IEM that I’d be interested in hearing later down the line.
Hidition themselves hail from South Korea; they’re one of the most underrated manufacturers stateside due to having next to zero marketing presence. Also because, you know, they don’t have any employees who speak English. And because their website is a hot-mess. And because it’s more costly to buy from overseas. And because...well, you get the idea, I think. I myself only managed to snag a pair thanks to a friend in South Korea who was kind enough to proxy for me. So how does the Viento-B (henceforth referred to simply as "Viento") actually sound? Well, the Viento sports four balanced-armature drivers. Not to beat a dead-horse, but a larger driver count doesn’t necessarily translate to better sonic performance; the Viento is a prime example. It follows a reference-oriented curve, so think something like the ER4XR but with some extra sub-bass and treble tacked on.
The Viento’s got some of the better BA bass I’ve heard. It neither slams as hard as the U12t nor is it as textured, but it’s getting there. The Viento’s transient attack is definitely tighter than the U12t which has something of a gentle softness down low that I quite enjoy. The Viento’s probably not the IEM to buy if you’re going to be listening to a lot of EDM, but it’s more than respectable for a BA IEM in this respect. Of course, I went for the “B” model because it stacks ~5dB or so onto the stock configuration; it was basically mandated for my preferences. Tonally, I think it should be in that sweet-spot for most listeners, curving as it should by 200hZ.
One of the first things that caught my eye about the Viento was actually the midrange; I suspect that the Viento served as the inspiration for the Moondrop B2: Dusk’s midrange. Mind you, that’s not a bad thing at all considering the Dusk has one of the best midrange tonalities I’ve heard. Subjective listening, however, is another matter entirely. To this end, the Viento is considerably more upper-midrange tilted, thinner, and to the point of which it borders on sibilance at times to my ears. I don’t think it’s bad, but it does leave something to be desired in this respect. On the bright side, vocal intelligibility is excellent, paying foil to my U12t which dips strongly in this region. Perhaps most notable, though, is the sheer texture present to the midrange. And I’m not talking about the crappy “grain” generally associated with most BA IEMs. The likes of Scotty McCreery, Joe Nichols, and Dierks Bentley, for example, all fly really well with between this note texture and the leaner lower-midrange. So while I don’t love the Viento’s midrange, I don’t hate it either, and it could be a whole lot worse.
The treble of the Viento is mid-treble emphasized with copious amounts of crash and sparkle. It’s pushing it here, I think, but it does work. While I haven’t sine-sweeped the Viento yet, I’d say extension is sufficient, albeit not matching some of the best stuff I’ve heard in this department. Really, what makes it somewhat hard to tell is that the Viento has something of a splashiness, or resonance, to the way a lot of treble instruments decay. I suppose in this vein it’s quite realistic and paying homage to its “reference” roots; however, I still think this could have been reigned in a tad, as I could see it being fatiguing.
On paper, the tonality of the Viento is exceptional; however, I do feel let down by these issues (which are both rectified by the custom version, so I’m told). Thankfully, the Viento is a technical performer too, and where it excels most is coherency: The Viento may just be the most coherent IEM I’ve heard. Everything syncs into place seamlessly; I fail to discern anything that sounds disjoint or out of place, and that’s something that I can’t help but admire. Even something like the U12t, because of its tia driver, doesn’t get quite this close, much less any other hybrid IEM I’ve heard. The macrodynamic ability of the Viento is definitely not in the same ballpark as the U12t - the Viento sounds somewhat dry, upwards-compressed by comparison - but its microdynamic ability is surprisingly good, and I think it easily gives the U12t a run for its money in this department, if not even surpasses it. Vocal inflections, minute instrument shifts - stuff of that nature - just fly really well on the Viento. That’s something I can definitely get behind. Staging is pretty average; overall imaging is on the “above-average” side of things with sufficient incisiveness to the violins panned to the left/right corners of the center image on Sawano Hiroyuki's "Binary Star" and decent diffusal of the center image itself.
I think what impresses me most of all, then, is the fact that this is a 6+ year old design. I’ve been told that there might’ve been some slight modifications along the way; however, don’t let that discount how mind-blowing that is an industry that moves so quickly. Furthermore, I’ve consistently drawn comparisons with my 64 Audio U12t because it’s my other personal, flagship IEM and represents - to me only, mind you - the near-pinnacle of portable fidelity. The Viento's the real deal. It’s an IEM that’s stood the test of time and still has what it takes to trade punches with the best in the game; it’s not hard to see why it’s garnered a stellar reputation in core IEM communities.
Score: 6/10
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riverground
Headphoneus Supremus
No no ) tiger wants dd and planar lol both have very special sound waves I want them all at same time please ☺
My friend is looking for the best 150$ max iem and lower cost. What would be the best pick?
Ok there Mr. Tiger lol
It might be 64 that makes that happen though. Especially thinking about the shape of the new driver enclosure. Anything can happen.
and unfortunately, I don’t have any experience with IEMs in that range. Not trying to flex tho lol
Vitaly2017
Headphoneus Supremus
Aaa they teased us and went deep down quiet no more talks nothing, I hear crickets.
64a should give us more info. And many folks are saying the black iem on the right might in fact be a u18s due to the lifted 2pin connection area. So no fourte flagship yet. And the other one is the true wireless sooo tiger is sad lol
Unless the true wireless will have planars then that a whole different story hahaha
To boost sale of very expensive products by creating rarity? And it also provides better resale values to owners, which is pretty important to this market. I think they’re just applying the strategy normally used by the luxury industry.
And it’s not like the R&D is lost forever. Erl is probably experimental (in terms of manufacturing etc.), VE can apply the learnings and user feedbacks to their next unlimited TOTL IEM.
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HiFyAK2020
100+ Head-Fier
Thanks. I just did a bit more research into the acrylic used in signage, and it's completely different from the one used in the in-ear industry. The kind used in the former is either cast acrylic or extruded acrylic that's formed by mixing in additives or by heating and shaping, respectively. They're typically used as a substitute for glass to make windows, fish tanks and signs. Here's a site that goes into these types of acrylic a bit more:
https://www.acmeplastics.com/cast-vs-extruded#:~:text=Extrusion is a continuous manufacturing,upon the direction of extrusion.
So, the link you've shared isn't really comparing Acrylic vs. Photopolymer. What it's really comparing is Cast/Extruded Acrylic vs. Acrylic-based Photopolymers.
On the other hand, the acrylic resin used in making in-ear monitors is the same kind used in fields like dentistry, which is a photopolymer. It's completely different from the acrylic used in signage, and it would actually fall under the Photopolymer camp in the link you've shared above. The reason I can say that is because, unlike the cast or extruded acrylic I mentioned earlier, the material used to make IEMs starts out as a liquid resin and hardens through exposure to UV light, which is the exact behaviour that describes a photopolymer. Why is it then called acrylic by everyone else, while Oriolus calls it Photopolymer? Because, the photopolymer used in both dentistry and in-ear monitoring is acrylic-based. So, really, the terms are the same and interchangeable. Here are three papers I found online that refer to it as such:
https://iopscience.iop.org/article/10.1088/1757-899X/202/1/012079/pdf
https://core.ac.uk/download/pdf/38109995.pdf
https://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/abs/10.1002/adfm.200400212
To add, I know Wikipedia is perhaps the worst possible example of a reliable academic source, but the main source of their entry on photopolymers is Photopolymer Materials and Processes for Advanced Technologies by James V. Crivello and Elsa Reichmanis, which is part of a peer-reviewed scientific journal called Chemistry of Materials. Unfortunately, I have to purchase it to actually look at the paper myself. But, from that article is where Wikipedia got its description of photopolymers, which, again, matches how acrylic resin is used in the in-ear industry to a T. And, it's also where the production of hearing aids is listed as one of its main uses, which naturally extends to in-ear monitors as well.
So, to me, there's no question that the acrylic resin every IEM manufacturer uses is a photopolymer. Oriolus, perhaps because of a translation thing or, indeed, perhaps in an innocent act of marketing, simply decided to call it by another name. Again, it'd be like if I said I baked my pie in an induction-based heating chamber, rather than saying oven. Both are true, and they're one and the same. Whereas, the acrylic used in signage that you're referring to is either cast or extruded, and it has nothing to do with the acrylic resin used in the production of earphones.
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Having heard both an A18s (uni) and Fourte, I very much am of the belief they are both flagships. The A18s being the all-BA flagship and Fourte being hybrid flagship. Difference presentations / characteristics and strengths / weaknesses, but not the case of one being "superior" or lower down the pecking order.
Couldn't agree more. Also, flagship is more of a marketing term than anything else.
HiFyAK2020
100+ Head-Fier
Genius and my sincere admiration for this study! It makes a lot of sense what you write and is proof that often the devil is in the detail. My humble short study did not catch the point really it seems. I would also assume like you said, that Oriolus innocently used a different word than others, it easily can be a translation issue.
So in that case VE, Oriolus and all the others use the same material and the difference in the surface is coming from either the polishing and/or the coating that is used, interesting.
Good new learning! Thank you!
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