[KuroKitsu]

I'm also not implying that it's got a plasticky timbre, which - for some reason - a lot of people tend to stereotype with all-BA IEMs. Given the sheer variety of sounds I've heard come out of BA's, and how natural and meaty the A18s sounds, for example, I have no clue how that association ever came to be, but I digress.

The way I see if is that a lot of people compare iems to 2ch. That is their "reference" is what they hear produced by DD speakers. Given that BAs are different method of reproducing sound, there are bound to be differences in that representation and therefore sound "off" in comparison. Like you said though, objectively speaking BAs can produced a wide variety of sounds in a natural way.

It's probably like the whole copper = warm, silver = bright mentality with cables.

 

[Rockwell75]

The difference in character between BA and DD sound is rooted in how much "air" each driver is able to move. It's sometimes claimed that BAs don't move air but this is false-- they do move air, just in a different manner and to a much lesser degree. In a DD you have a vibrating diaphram and in a BA you have a vibrating reed, the former of which is able to move a lot more air and this imho is what gives a DD its defining texture-- its density. I've heard some really great BA IEMs (Andro, VX, VE8, u12t) and all of them left me wanting, sometimes just a little, more weight. Honestly out of all those 4 I would say the VX came closest to tricking me and has what I consider the most satisfying bass out of those 4 (the u12t has better decay but it's way too thin). Incidentally the VX also has the most drivers of each of those so may be gap between BA and DD timbre is one that can be closed by a properly utilized high driver count. I've had the 18s on my radar since it was first announced. It's well beyond what I'd like to spend and I have no intention of going custom...but I would love a chance to hear it.

 

[aaf evo]

The ERLKöNIG is one of the all BA IEMs that gets incredibly close to delivering some of that DD texture to me, especially when you listen on setting 1 with all that bass glory.

 

[Deezel177]

The difference in character between BA and DD sound is rooted in how much "air" each driver is able to move. It's sometimes claimed that BAs don't move air but this is false-- they do move air, just in a different manner and to a much lesser degree. In a DD you have a vibrating diaphram and in a BA you have a vibrating reed, the former of which is able to move a lot more air and this imho is what gives a DD its defining texture-- its density. I've heard some really great BA IEMs (Andro, VX, VE8, u12t) and all of them left me wanting, sometimes just a little, more weight. Honestly out of all those 4 I would say the VX came closest to tricking me and has what I consider the most satisfying bass out of those 4 (the u12t has better decay but it's way too thin). Incidentally the VX also has the most drivers of each of those so may be gap between BA and DD timbre is one that can be closed by a properly utilized high driver count. I've had the 18s on my radar since it was first announced. It's well beyond what I'd like to spend and I have no intention of going custom...but I would love a chance to hear it.

I’d understand (and wholeheartedly agree) if the BA vs. DD argument was limited to just the woofers, but the confusion starts for me when it gets all the way up to the mids and highs. I’ve seen assumptions that an IEM’s vocals would sound plasticky just because it uses BA’s as its midrange drivers. For me, plasticky-ness comes purely from a colored frequency response, rather than the driver type. But, as @KuroKitsu said, maybe I’d feel differently if I was coming from a different background, and I wasn’t already used to the IEM sound in the first place.

 

[Damz87]

The difference in character between BA and DD sound is rooted in how much "air" each driver is able to move. It's sometimes claimed that BAs don't move air but this is false-- they do move air, just in a different manner and to a much lesser degree. In a DD you have a vibrating diaphram and in a BA you have a vibrating reed, the former of which is able to move a lot more air and this imho is what gives a DD its defining texture-- its density. I've heard some really great BA IEMs (Andro, VX, VE8, u12t) and all of them left me wanting, sometimes just a little, more weight. Honestly out of all those 4 I would say the VX came closest to tricking me and has what I consider the most satisfying bass out of those 4 (the u12t has better decay but it's way too thin). Incidentally the VX also has the most drivers of each of those so may be gap between BA and DD timbre is one that can be closed by a properly utilized high driver count. I've had the 18s on my radar since it was first announced. It's well beyond what I'd like to spend and I have no intention of going custom...but I would love a chance to hear it.

If you're looking for DD-like bass from a BA, look no further than the Erlky. As @aaf evo said, setting 1 will blow your socks off with it's bass texture.

The 18s bass isn't any better than U12t's. It doesn't have as much sub bass and isn't as impactful as U12t's imho. This is the demo model I'm referring to though. Maybe the A18s is different.

 

[Deezel177]

If you're looking for DD-like bass from a BA, look no further than the Erlky. As @aaf evo said, setting 1 will blow your socks off with it's bass texture.

The 18s bass isn't any better than U12t's. It doesn't have as much sub bass and isn't as impactful as U12t's imho. This is the demo model I'm referring to though. Maybe the A18s is different.

I can't comment on how its quality compares to the U12t's without an A/B comparison, but I would agree that the A18s definitely has a bit less sub-bass. The peak of its low-end energy is more so in the mid-bass, so it's a bottom that's a tad more heard than felt. I talk about this more in-depth in my full review, which, by the way, is actually done, so... stay tuned.

 

[davidmolliere]

Erlkönig bass is superb, but I wouldn't call it a DD like bass IMHO... DD pushes air it has a physical quality that is so hard to replicate, it's been years but Shure SE846 driver for sub bass and the unique tech they used to provide a sense of rumble was the closest thing but not really the same either.

 

[gLer]

I’d understand (and wholeheartedly agree) if the BA vs. DD argument was limited to just the woofers, but the confusion starts for me when it gets all the way up to the mids and highs. I’ve seen assumptions that an IEM’s vocals would sound plasticky just because it uses BA’s as its midrange drivers. For me, plasticky-ness comes purely from a colored frequency response, rather than the driver type. But, as @KuroKitsu said, maybe I’d feel differently if I was coming from a different background, and I wasn’t already used to the IEM sound in the first place.

For me it's not so much the texture or timbre of BAs (and honestly, I couldn't really tell you what BA timbre sounds like), but it's exactly how @Rockwell75 puts it: air movement. Even at IEM level that visceral feeling of air movement and rumble from a DD woofer creates a much more realistic sense of size and space than BAs. The easiest way to describe it is that with a BA you 'see' the bass (and it's often even more detailed and nuanced than with a DD), but with a DD you 'feel' it (and with a really good DD you get all the benefits of texture, nuance and that very natural decay of real air). I have a similar feeling towards full size headphones where I prefer dynamic drivers to electrostats for the same reason, despite the added detail and nuance in electrostats. I need to feel the bass to really enjoy it.

 

[491326]

After trying and getting an n3pro, I realize that natural sound was what I’ve been looking for. Aside from cables, or if my A12t breaks (which is very likely considering my track record), I’m pretty much retiring from the upgrade game. I’ve found my synergy

 

[mvvRAZ]

After trying and getting an n3pro, I realize that natural sound was what I’ve been looking for. Aside from cables, or if my A12t breaks (which is very likely considering my track record), I’m pretty much retiring from the upgrade game. I’ve found my synergy

famous last words

 

[491326]

famous last words

Watch me get tired of the n3pro within a week

 

[mvvRAZ]

Watch me get tired of the n3pro within a week

Tell you what, if you’re still entertained with it by Friday next week I’ll buy one no questions asked

 

[gLer]

After trying and getting an n3pro, I realize that natural sound was what I’ve been looking for. Aside from cables, or if my A12t breaks (which is very likely considering my track record), I’m pretty much retiring from the upgrade game. I’ve found my synergy

The great thing about enjoying natural sound is that this seems to be the least expensive option in audiophilia. As soon as you say warm or natural, you're no longer commanding summit-fi prices, which seem to be reserved for hyper detail, absolute "reference" (whatever that means) or something completely from left field (like Thummim, or paladium cables) that sounds different or weird but in a good way and is therefore priced at niche.

 

[davidmolliere]

@gLer I am doing the finishing touches on my StealthSonics C9 Pro review, this one might be of interest to you

 

[491326]

Tell you what, if you’re still entertained with it by Friday next week I’ll buy one no questions asked

I’ll report back! Off to a good start already I think. I saw a discussion about feeling the music with a DD, and I gotta say that the n3pro can make you feel the music even with a BA iem.