[subguy812]

Ah yes. Their only selling point (imo) is their smooth UI. Their price to performance ratio is just not palatable to me

I get it, AK is expensive but expense is relative to what your perception is. To me it may be worth it because of the overall experience AK delivers. I have a taste in cars that many think is expensive, but to me it is normal. Another example would be cables, my limit is around 300 that I want to spend because I don't get it, I could spend more or even request them for reviews as many here do, but it isn't something I enjoy reviewing.

That said, if I find a product that I enjoy that costs less than AK I would certainly buy it before AK, but if I buy AK I know I will be happy without much trial and error. Some products set the bar and other companies raise it. I enjoy the QP2R, it is my new reference player, but you will more than likely get hiss with sensitive IEM's, I don't have any sensitive IEM's so it works super well for me.

I am up there in years so I have seen so many transitions in equipment. I remember having Yamaha reference equipment and a full Paradigm home system that, at that time, was pretty killer, I don't remember for sure, but all in, somewhere around 10-15K. My bar was raised many years ago, and once I jumped into this portable rabbit hole I attempted to ease into it but quickly found myself with 2K IEM's and DAP's.

My rambling point is, all of this stuff we talk about on a daily basis, is one man's perception or opinion. Sound, cost, quality etc. there is no one sumpreme ruling. Enjoy, what gives you pleasure and remember there ain't no Brinks truck following no hearse. Enjoy!

 

[fiascogarcia]

Tried a friends SP1000cu and was really impressed with it, but then was able to buy a 1Z for $2300 brand new, and have never had any regrets. At this level of DAP's, there is not really one that is significantly better than the other, just a different flavor. And yes the costs are high, but for someone like me; I'm using portable equipment in lieu of a desktop or home system (wife's interior decorating apparently takes precedence) so I can usually justify the price. As an aside, I think I never realized how much premium I honestly put on having a super long battery life. So the 1z definitely scratches that itch.

 

[tim0chan]

I get it, AK is expensive but expense is relative to what your perception is. To me it may be worth it because of the overall experience AK delivers. I have a taste in cars that many think is expensive, but to me it is normal. Another example would be cables, my limit is around 300 that I want to spend because I don't get it, I could spend more or even request them for reviews as many here do, but it isn't something I enjoy reviewing.

That said, if I find a product that I enjoy that costs less than AK I would certainly buy it before AK, but if I buy AK I know I will be happy without much trial and error. Some products set the bar and other companies raise it. I enjoy the QP2R, it is my new reference player, but you will more than likely get hiss with sensitive IEM's, I don't have any sensitive IEM's so it works super well for me.

I am up there in years so I have seen so many transitions in equipment. I remember having Yamaha reference equipment and a full Paradigm home system that, at that time, was pretty killer, I don't remember for sure, but all in, somewhere around 10-15K. My bar was raised many years ago, and once I jumped into this portable rabbit hole I attempted to ease into it but quickly found myself with 2K IEM's and DAP's.

My rambling point is, all of this stuff we talk about on a daily basis, is one man's perception or opinion. Sound, cost, quality etc. there is no one sumpreme ruling. Enjoy, what gives you pleasure and remember than ain't no Brinks truck following no hearse. Enjoy!

My sticking point is not really the price but rather what they offer at the price. It's nothing special. Just the "best" that they get out of "throwing together" (forgive me for oversimplification) high end components. I dont feel that they are trying to push the envelope with the current line. I feel that something like the Kann was the last stab at trying to do something absolutely special. I do acknowledge that they offer one of if not the best sounding dap and I get that many can afford and will pay for it. But, looking at other companies carving out a niche, be it questyle with class A current mode amplification, ibasso & fiio's modular system and heck, even the buggy as hell ap200 with their copper shielding of the DAC. But ya don't have to say that because we (as the segment that can afford and will pay) are paying for it, we don't deserve better.

 

[natemact]

Well here's my "post-for-the-people" lifted from the SP1000M thread. Unsurprisingly I received no reply from Jason so no need to tag him in it a second time.

Jason, I don't mean this as a s.hit disturber post but I gotta tell it like I see it and I'll even preface this by stating that IMO you're #1 in design and UI : )

You guys have any plans to restructure your cost? K that was a rhetorical question : ) It's just that when I saw your dealer price list, I quickly checked to see if the delta was made up in terms. Nope, standard terms. You guys are rather expensive from dist to dealer and clearly then passed on to consumers*

* If enough of us complain will we win?

To give you an idea, my new music server has lowered jitter to an unheard of 7ps.

Looking forward to some chat back and forth between us once you get acquainted with TMP. Speaking to jitter though, back when I was in the market for a DAC I had the Crane Song Solaris on my short list with designer Dave Hill's claims of less then 1pS, and from 10Hz to 20KHz typically measured at ~0.045pS, being what first piqued my interest. Actually, if you remove the cover of the Solaris you can see that the clock has the jitter value hand written on it. The one I saw was penned 0.033pS. Not poo-pooing TMP, not at all : ) Just showing folks that some designers are so NUTS about jitter they won't quit until they attain values in sub pS...but hear the diff? Seriously doubt it : )

 

[491326]

after listening to jazz on my uncle's 2ch system, I think I can't take this anymore. the presentation of the sound, the resolution, the tone, is so much better. I think I'm gonna go into 2ch when I grow up. I'm still too young to be thinking about getting 2ch, does anyone have a suggestion to make earphones imitate speakers? probably a bad idea, but the way speakers brought the concert in front of me was too amazing, and I can't listen to any of the same albums on my iems anymore :'c

 

[subguy812]

My sticking point is not really the price but rather what they offer at the price. It's nothing special. Just the "best" that they get out of "throwing together" (forgive me for oversimplification) high end components. I dont feel that they are trying to push the envelope with the current line. I feel that something like the Kann was the last stab at trying to do something absolutely special. I do acknowledge that they offer one of if not the best sounding dap and I get that many can afford and will pay for it. But, looking at other companies carving out a niche, be it questyle with class A current mode amplification, ibasso & fiio's modular system and heck, even the buggy as hell ap200 with their copper shielding of the DAC. But ya don't have to say that because we (as the segment that can afford and will pay) are paying for it, we don't deserve better.

Kann was special but really didn't get the attention it probably deserved. A battery and storage beast...with the 100II or 120 II level of sound.

 

[proedros]

saying that AK daps are not overpriced - but it comes down to what everyone is willing to pay for them - is like saying that well Lakers paying 72 millions for Luol Deng was not an overpriced signing

some buys are overpriced , just like some other buys are underpriced (or bargains as we call them)

just because someone is wealthy (or crazy) enough to buy something that is priced higher than it should be , does not mean it's not overpriced

people can do whatever they like with their hard-earned money , but justifying AK daps as ''not overpriced' only shows me a self-justification for your money spent on whatever makes you happy (and this is cool)

besides, it's not me paying for your AK daps guys

btw , @NaiveSound getting WM1Z for 1000$ is probably a not overpriced buy , i think we can all agree on that

 

[subguy812]

saying that AK daps are not overpriced - but it comes down to what everyone is willing to pay for them - is like saying that well Lakers paying 72 millions for Luol Deng was not an overpriced signing

some buys are overpriced , just like some other buys are underpriced (or bargains as we call them)

just because someone is wealthy (or crazy) enough to buy something that is priced higher than it should be , does not mean it's not overpriced

people can do whatever they like with their hard-earned money , but justifying AK daps as ''not overpriced' only shows me a self-justification for your money spent on whatever makes you happy (and this is cool)

besides, it's not me paying for your AK daps guys

btw , @NaiveSound getting WM1Z for 1000$ is probably a not overpriced buy , i think we can all agree on that

Sir...to the Lakers it wasn't overpriced or they wouldn't have done it. I am sure your beloved Zeus are overpriced to many people. No one forces anyone to buy anything, it is purely free will. I am not interested in the WM1Z so to me it is insanely overpriced

 

[proedros]

Sir...to the Lakers it wasn't overpriced or they wouldn't have done it. I am sure your beloved Zeus are overpriced to many people. No one forces anyone to buy anything, it is purely free will. I am not interested in the WM1Z so to me it is insanely overpriced

well , they bought him out so yeah it was a disaster signing - in fact they fired the GM who did the deal

in a way everything here is overpriced so Zeus is too but when i say something is overpriced , we gotta examine it in its price range and in relation with its power range

zeus was no2 in a TOTL shootout , so to me i found say Noble Katana (at 1900$) to be a much more overpirced iem (coming in at numero 12 , the only +1500$ iem staing off the top-10 in flinckerick's shootout)

btw , i got Zeus for almost 1000$ less than its MSRP so yeah i think it's definitely a sweet deal

as for WM1Z it is overpriced no disagreement there with you , and this is why i will only buy one if a) i inherit a ton of money or b) i come across a huge bargain like naivesound did

again , this is a heated but always friendly discussion - like i said if i inherit a shitload of money i would buy everything in here no matter how overpriced they are

cheers

 

[linux4ever]

Hence the reason I love the prices of campfire audio and custom art.

One of the best in price to performance ratio.

And speaking of ak players and its pricing, I find even a new Ak120ii at $750 lacking that performance. And to think that it was priced $1200 or above makes me wonder.

There are many things Ak120ii got right. And quite a few that it didn't. Yet from just sound quality alone I found it be too warm with a boosted bass. However its pairing with chord Hugo was sublime

 

[Bosk]

My take. @Deezel177 you missed what I consider the top spec on that sheet and that's the jitter. Guys, jitter is timing errors in the digital realm. This is why digital still isn't where analog is IRT the natural feeling of the music. They lowered the jitter to 25ms from 30 something. That was the one spec that really got me interested. We all know that specs mean something, but it's all about total integration that means everything. To give you an idea, my new music server has lowered jitter to an unheard of 7ps. There are at least 3 sources of jitter. I"m not an expert, but the guy who's building my server is and he shares everything to try adn teach me. Many of you know more than I and I'd love to hear your thoughts also please. The other part of jitter is how they cashe the stream as well as the hard drive, depending on which one you are using. It's fragmented and so far, only the maker of The Memory Player (my server) has found a way to cashe anything it's fed in a special slot and defragment it. That's why the jitter is so low.

Clock timing error (jitter0, is huge and it's good to see them lowering it. I would love to see how ti compares to other's DAP's. Are the AK DAP's really over priced? Only each person can figure that out @tim0chan. Many who can't afford a product, or who have made the decision that something isn't worth it, feels that way. The thing is, many of us realize that we do want the best sound and we have our own bar that we use to figure out if it's worth it. What I found in the IEM world, is that nearly everyone realizes that AK makes the top DAP for sound and even use for many. That is going to cost a premium in audio. That's the reality. It's just an individual thing Tim. That doesn't mean I don't respect what you say or even feel that it's a boat load of money for what you get, but there is a huge market as they are growing and coming out with better and better DAP's. At last they are doing it in all price ranges. I'm not saying that anything lower than their top tier DAP's are better than the competition, but I see a ton of guys loving their sound signature and how they are used compared to many DAP's that cost similar. That's a discussion fro another story, with no finish since it's what flavor ice cream do you like, but at the top it's AK and I haven't seen anyone else. Again, this is also my opinion and in the end, it's up to our own ears.

Great topic though. I'm excited to see how this new unit sounds as I am selling my AK380cu/amp and was ready to just get the SP1000cu which I probably still will, unless this unit is better sounding. It's all good though as we have options and are enjoying the music.

I heard the SP1000 the other day along with the WM1Z and don’t think you could go wrong with either, but the SP1000 sounded more dynamic and detailed. It’s headphone amp felt a lot more punchy than my AK380 sans-AMP, and the screen is a big upgrade. I’d be surprised if you aren’t impressed.

 

[popof94]

Don't think they changed CPU, looks identical inside except for 128GB of internal storage (instead of 256GB) and aluminum chassis instead of SS/CU. But they did improve output of BAL, from 3.9Vrms to 4.2Vrms and improved SNR to 123dB. Weight is cut in half, and size is smaller (with a display scaled down to 4.1" from 5"). Also, they announced about upcoming new FW, introduced with SP1000M and probably carried over to other DAPs where they are going to allow side-loading of APK files to load other streaming services (hopefully Spotify will work). And the price is reduced from $3.5k to $2.4k. Full announcement here.

I have a feeling the sound will not be identical to SP1000, they have to differentiate from a flagship unless they are planning to kill it off.

I think it will sound exactly the same. The difference will not be in the sound but in some details: no optical output, 128 instead 256 Giga internal memory, alu instead cu or ss. But it is an SP1000 and it can’t sound differently I think.

 

[SBranson]

after listening to jazz on my uncle's 2ch system, I think I can't take this anymore. the presentation of the sound, the resolution, the tone, is so much better. I think I'm gonna go into 2ch when I grow up. I'm still too young to be thinking about getting 2ch, does anyone have a suggestion to make earphones imitate speakers? probably a bad idea, but the way speakers brought the concert in front of me was too amazing, and I can't listen to any of the same albums on my iems anymore :'c

As one who used to be into 2ch, the closest I've come to something that is as enjoyable is Stax.. But nothing sitting on or in your ears will recreate that experience. In iems, the closest has been the Noble Savant but only in that sense of sitting back from the performance, not the scale or resolution.
My current EE ESRs have some nice depth and are much more resolving and realistic in timbre than the Savants if slightly more forward in the mids...

They are different experiences. If you can get into 2ch, it can be magical.

 

[buonassi]

But nothing sitting on or in your ears will recreate that experience.

not only because of the lack of frontal localization (as with speakers) but also the resonant peaks in the treble that preclude head-fi gear from presenting the perfectly natural treble of your unique HRTF. Search long enough and you'll find an IEM that can get really close to perfect FR (foam tips help).

Any more and I'll have to self redirect to the sound science forum. Sorry for the OT post... felt it was helpful in this case.

 

[491326]

As one who used to be into 2ch, the closest I've come to something that is as enjoyable is Stax.. But nothing sitting on or in your ears will recreate that experience. In iems, the closest has been the Noble Savant but only in that sense of sitting back from the performance, not the scale or resolution.
My current EE ESRs have some nice depth and are much more resolving and realistic in timbre than the Savants if slightly more forward in the mids...

They are different experiences. If you can get into 2ch, it can be magical.

I definitely will once I can afford it