[Bosk]

Thanks for posting that photo twister6.


Is it just me or is anyone else slightly annoyed AK keep rushing out new models so quickly? I think its great they're working hard to stay at the forefront by continually innovating, but anyone who recently bought a SE100 (released only in May!) may look at this new player and feel slightly aggrieved they didn't wait an extra month or two, given they're extremely similar products with similar prices targeted towards the same segment of the market. They did the same thing with the AK70MKII and SR15 too.

It would be fantastic if AK created some kind of upgrade trade-in program similar to the one I believe Apple has for iPhones. Perhaps that's wishful thinking, but releasing extremely-similar products at the same price points so quickly in an industry where customers are always herded by retailers & reviewers towards the latest-and-greatest, effectively accelerates depreciation on expensive DAP purchases. It would be unfortunate if deliberately encouraging this forms part of AK's business model.

 

[proedros]

Thanks for posting that photo twister6.


Is it just me or is anyone else slightly annoyed AK keep rushing out new models so quickly? I think its great they're working hard to stay at the forefront by continually innovating, but anyone who recently bought a SE100 (released only in May!) may look at this new player and feel slightly aggrieved they didn't wait an extra month or two, given they're extremely similar products with similar prices targeted towards the same segment of the market. They did the same thing with the AK70MKII and SR15 too.

It would be fantastic if AK created some kind of upgrade trade-in program similar to the one I believe Apple has for iPhones. Perhaps that's wishful thinking, but releasing extremely-similar products at the same price points so quickly in an industry where customers are always herded by retailers & reviewers towards the latest-and-greatest, effectively accelerates depreciation on expensive DAP purchases. It would be unfortunate if deliberately encouraging this forms part of AK's business model.

oh man you are so naive , i feel sorry for you

i saw 3 bolds points in your post, that show how out of touch you are with the AK mentality

also , ''AK being innovative'' ? this is a good one.....

 

[natemact]

Table manners @proedros!

 

[proedros]

it came out harsh but i meant it in a good way , Bosk is a person who we talk here but i feel like AK has fooled him

that's all

(never crap where you eat from)

 

[tim0chan]

AK is severely overpriced, but i guess thats what happens when the sound quality is practically the best. i feel the most bang for buck player based on sound alone is the ibasso dx200/dx150. gets at least 80% there without kidney selling

 

[ctsooner22]

My take. @Deezel177 you missed what I consider the top spec on that sheet and that's the jitter. Guys, jitter is timing errors in the digital realm. This is why digital still isn't where analog is IRT the natural feeling of the music. They lowered the jitter to 25ms from 30 something. That was the one spec that really got me interested. We all know that specs mean something, but it's all about total integration that means everything. To give you an idea, my new music server has lowered jitter to an unheard of 7ps. There are at least 3 sources of jitter. I"m not an expert, but the guy who's building my server is and he shares everything to try adn teach me. Many of you know more than I and I'd love to hear your thoughts also please. The other part of jitter is how they cashe the stream as well as the hard drive, depending on which one you are using. It's fragmented and so far, only the maker of The Memory Player (my server) has found a way to cashe anything it's fed in a special slot and defragment it. That's why the jitter is so low.

Clock timing error (jitter0, is huge and it's good to see them lowering it. I would love to see how ti compares to other's DAP's. Are the AK DAP's really over priced? Only each person can figure that out @tim0chan. Many who can't afford a product, or who have made the decision that something isn't worth it, feels that way. The thing is, many of us realize that we do want the best sound and we have our own bar that we use to figure out if it's worth it. What I found in the IEM world, is that nearly everyone realizes that AK makes the top DAP for sound and even use for many. That is going to cost a premium in audio. That's the reality. It's just an individual thing Tim. That doesn't mean I don't respect what you say or even feel that it's a boat load of money for what you get, but there is a huge market as they are growing and coming out with better and better DAP's. At last they are doing it in all price ranges. I'm not saying that anything lower than their top tier DAP's are better than the competition, but I see a ton of guys loving their sound signature and how they are used compared to many DAP's that cost similar. That's a discussion fro another story, with no finish since it's what flavor ice cream do you like, but at the top it's AK and I haven't seen anyone else. Again, this is also my opinion and in the end, it's up to our own ears.

Great topic though. I'm excited to see how this new unit sounds as I am selling my AK380cu/amp and was ready to just get the SP1000cu which I probably still will, unless this unit is better sounding. It's all good though as we have options and are enjoying the music.

 

[tim0chan]

My take. @Deezel177 you missed what I consider the top spec on that sheet and that's the jitter. Guys, jitter is timing errors in the digital realm. This is why digital still isn't where analog is IRT the natural feeling of the music. They lowered the jitter to 25ms from 30 something. That was the one spec that really got me interested. We all know that specs mean something, but it's all about total integration that means everything. To give you an idea, my new music server has lowered jitter to an unheard of 7ps. There are at least 3 sources of jitter. I"m not an expert, but the guy who's building my server is and he shares everything to try adn teach me. Many of you know more than I and I'd love to hear your thoughts also please. The other part of jitter is how they cashe the stream as well as the hard drive, depending on which one you are using. It's fragmented and so far, only the maker of The Memory Player (my server) has found a way to cashe anything it's fed in a special slot and defragment it. That's why the jitter is so low.

Clock timing error (jitter0, is huge and it's good to see them lowering it. I would love to see how ti compares to other's DAP's. Are the AK DAP's really over priced? Only each person can figure that out @tim0chan. Many who can't afford a product, or who have made the decision that something isn't worth it, feels that way. The thing is, many of us realize that we do want the best sound and we have our own bar that we use to figure out if it's worth it. What I found in the IEM world, is that nearly everyone realizes that AK makes the top DAP for sound and even use for many. That is going to cost a premium in audio. That's the reality. It's just an individual thing Tim. That doesn't mean I don't respect what you say or even feel that it's a boat load of money for what you get, but there is a huge market as they are growing and coming out with better and better DAP's. At last they are doing it in all price ranges. I'm not saying that anything lower than their top tier DAP's are better than the competition, but I see a ton of guys loving their sound signature and how they are used compared to many DAP's that cost similar. That's a discussion fro another story, with no finish since it's what flavor ice cream do you like, but at the top it's AK and I haven't seen anyone else. Again, this is also my opinion and in the end, it's up to our own ears.

Great topic though. I'm excited to see how this new unit sounds as I am selling my AK380cu/amp and was ready to just get the SP1000cu which I probably still will, unless this unit is better sounding. It's all good though as we have options and are enjoying the music.

For the amount you pay I don't see much improvement/ innovation? Where's the shielding of the internals from the screen? Where is the newest proprietary topology? Where is the high quality discrete components? I don't see that. I understand that they are improving on their designs. But they sure as hell are not pushing the envelope. That's why modders can squeeze more out of AKs(historically with the rwak).
They are not giving their all to their designs so they can release dap after dap.

 

[ctsooner22]

For the amount you pay I don't see much improvement/ innovation? Where's the shielding of the internals from the screen? Where is the newest proprietary topology? Where is the high quality discrete components? I don't see that. I understand that they are improving on their designs. But they sure as hell are not pushing the envelope. That's why modders can squeeze more out of AKs(historically with the rwak).
They are not giving their all to their designs so they can release dap after dap.

TIM, you miss my point completely. It’s only about sound quality and right now no one else is there. Even if modified, you still need to have one. I agree on you points, but it’s a personal thing if someone feels it’s overpriced. That was my point.

 

[davidmolliere]

I think many will feel a product is overpriced in relation to the production cost (that we don't really know but guess), so there is kind of a reference point that we could potentially have (if we knew) and give us a rough idea of the margin vendors are making. R&D cost are much harder to guess, but unless there is a real technological revolution, harder to value. Right now we're seeing marginal gains (how much is that worth? to each its own...) and huge increases in TOTL IEM and DAP prices. It's easy to understand when a new driver type is created for example 64 with the Tia (not judging wether or not it's a corresponding SQ jump), or when top quality components and build is clearly showing, but sometimes it's much harder to justify...

 

[davidcotton]

For the amount you pay I don't see much improvement/ innovation? Where's the shielding of the internals from the screen? Where is the newest proprietary topology? Where is the high quality discrete components? I don't see that. I understand that they are improving on their designs. But they sure as hell are not pushing the envelope. That's why modders can squeeze more out of AKs(historically with the rwak).
They are not giving their all to their designs so they can release dap after dap.

If they did any of that then they wouldn't have any room left to release the latest"ultimate ultimate" edition or whatever it is. It still amuses me no end that people are willing to spend that kind of $ and still send it off to be modded to bring the "best" out of it.

Yes I am getting ever more cynical in my older age.

 

[tim0chan]

If they did any of that then they wouldn't have any room left to release the latest"ultimate ultimate" edition or whatever it is. It still amuses me no end that people are willing to spend that kind of $ and still send it off to be modded to bring the "best" out of it.

Yes I am getting ever more cynical in my older age.

And that's why it's overpriced. The squeeze the money out of us

 

[ranfan]

"The truth is, you bought 'em because you like 'em. They have value to you. That's what matters.”
—Doofus Rick to Jerry[src]

 

[Deezel177]

My take. @Deezel177 you missed what I consider the top spec on that sheet and that's the jitter. Guys, jitter is timing errors in the digital realm. This is why digital still isn't where analog is IRT the natural feeling of the music. They lowered the jitter to 25ms from 30 something. That was the one spec that really got me interested. We all know that specs mean something, but it's all about total integration that means everything. To give you an idea, my new music server has lowered jitter to an unheard of 7ps. There are at least 3 sources of jitter. I"m not an expert, but the guy who's building my server is and he shares everything to try adn teach me. Many of you know more than I and I'd love to hear your thoughts also please. The other part of jitter is how they cashe the stream as well as the hard drive, depending on which one you are using. It's fragmented and so far, only the maker of The Memory Player (my server) has found a way to cashe anything it's fed in a special slot and defragment it. That's why the jitter is so low.

Clock timing error (jitter0, is huge and it's good to see them lowering it. I would love to see how ti compares to other's DAP's. Are the AK DAP's really over priced? Only each person can figure that out @tim0chan. Many who can't afford a product, or who have made the decision that something isn't worth it, feels that way. The thing is, many of us realize that we do want the best sound and we have our own bar that we use to figure out if it's worth it. What I found in the IEM world, is that nearly everyone realizes that AK makes the top DAP for sound and even use for many. That is going to cost a premium in audio. That's the reality. It's just an individual thing Tim. That doesn't mean I don't respect what you say or even feel that it's a boat load of money for what you get, but there is a huge market as they are growing and coming out with better and better DAP's. At last they are doing it in all price ranges. I'm not saying that anything lower than their top tier DAP's are better than the competition, but I see a ton of guys loving their sound signature and how they are used compared to many DAP's that cost similar. That's a discussion fro another story, with no finish since it's what flavor ice cream do you like, but at the top it's AK and I haven't seen anyone else. Again, this is also my opinion and in the end, it's up to our own ears.

Great topic though. I'm excited to see how this new unit sounds as I am selling my AK380cu/amp and was ready to just get the SP1000cu which I probably still will, unless this unit is better sounding. It's all good though as we have options and are enjoying the music.

I have an okay understanding of jitter in terms of audio recording, which is why studios used to spend tons on great quality word clocks and digital BNC cables. However, we've gotten to a point now where syncing with the interface or console's built-in word clock does the job just fine, especially nowadays where digitally-controlled analog signal chains are becoming more common. In Head-Fi, that would translate to the euphony and flavour of vintage tube gear, built within the reliable foundations that are high-grade PCBs, $10-caps, etc.

Just to be clear, I don't think the SP1000M is a bad buy at all. I think it's a great buy considering the spec boosts, size-and-weight reduction and price-point, but I only think so because the uber luxurious SP1000Cu and SS were the ones that launched first - instead of the other way around as they usually did. With the AK240 and AK380, they released the "regular" duralumin variants first, before releasing the much pricier SS and Cu variants. I was simply noting a shift in their marketing strategy to release the premium models first without any hints as to whether they'd release a cheaper, "regular" version. I think this led people to believe that these'd be the SP1000's final forms, which turned into a very successful run of sales, as well as zero doubt as to whether the SS and CU were superior to the "regular" version, because there was no "regular" version to begin with., Buyers who'd usually deliberate on whether to purchase the "regular" or premium versions were eventually left with no other option than getting the SS or CU, only to be blindsided by the M much later.

It was smart of AK to market this way, because it made both items seem more impressive - especially at the time frames in which they were meant to sell. The SS and Cu flagships garnered a ton more hype and praise than the AK240SS, Ak380Cu and AK380SS (within media as a whole; not just niche forums on HF), and the regular version they release later looks like a bargain by comparison. I have no doubt that now, the SP1000M looks like a great upper-echelon TOTL in the DAP space. What I'm wondering is whether or not I would've thought so if the release schedule had played out a bit differently.

 

[subguy812]

AK has an excellent bug free experience. While iBasso and other companies struggle with lag and various other UI bugs, AK has one of the best user interfaces around. Their sound quality is also superb. It comes down to preference. Each AK player I have owned has been delivered an excellent overall experience. If you don't want to spend the money, don't, it really is just that simple. Expense is a relative thing and it depends on what your value system is. I do not have an AK player presently, but would have no problem owning another one. They have covered the spectrum from models and pricing, but their prices are on the upper end at all levels. My belief is they have marketed intelligently.

 

[tim0chan]

AK has an excellent bug free experience. While iBasso and other companies struggle with lag and various other UI bugs, AK has one of the best user interfaces around. Their sound quality is also superb. It comes down to preference. Each AK player I have owned has been delivered an excellent overall experience. If you don't want to spend the money, don't, it really is just that simple. Expense is a relative thing and it depends on what your value system is. I do not have an AK player presently, but would have no problem owning another one. They have covered the spectrum from models and pricing, but their prices are on the upper end at all levels. My belief is they have marketed intelligently.

Ah yes. Their only selling point (imo) is their smooth UI. Their price to performance ratio is just not palatable to me