flinkenick's 17 Flagship IEM Shootout Thread (and general high-end portable audio discussion)
Aug 11, 2018 at 2:09 AM Post #11,716 of 39,250

ezekiel77

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TOTL IEM prices are looking more and more like football transfer fees. Look at Neymar the Rollermaster's previously unimaginable transfer fee of £200mil for his move from Barca to PSG. Before this half the amount was already considered astronomical.

This fee in turn triggered a tidal wave of crazy-high transfer fees near or at the £100mil mark during the just-concluded transfer window bcos let's face it, if Neymar can roll his way to footballing glory for that amount, surely another star player won't settle for much less. Bcos of the precedent set by Brazilian Rolls Royce, just like that the transfer fees for top, top players doubled this year. Whether they are worth it or not, is just a matter of perception (they aren't). Lol.

Ok I'll stop with the rolling jokes in case a Brazilian or PSG fan wants my head.
 
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Aug 11, 2018 at 2:14 AM Post #11,717 of 39,250

bvng3540

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TOTL IEM prices are looking more and more like football transfer fees. Look at Neymar the Rollermaster's previously unimaginable transfer fee of £200mil for his move from Barca to PSG. Before this half the amount was already considered astronomical.

This fee in turn triggered a tidal wave of crazy-high transfer fees at the £100mil-plus during the just-concluded transfer window bcos let's face it, if Neymar can roll his way to footballing glory for that amount, surely another star player won't settle for much less. Bcos of the precedent set by Brazilian Rolls Royce, just like that the transfer fees for top, top players doubled this year. Whether they are worth it or not, is just a matter of perception (they aren't). Lol.

Ok I'll stop with the rolling jokes in case a Brazilian or PSG fan wants my head.
You mean SOCCER:ksc75smile:
 
Aug 11, 2018 at 2:17 AM Post #11,718 of 39,250

kdphan

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TOTL IEM prices are looking more and more like football transfer fees. Look at Neymar the Rollermaster's previously unimaginable transfer fee of £200mil for his move from Barca to PSG. Before this half the amount was already considered astronomical.

This fee in turn triggered a tidal wave of crazy-high transfer fees at the £100mil-plus during the just-concluded transfer window bcos let's face it, if Neymar can roll his way to footballing glory for that amount, surely another star player won't settle for much less. Bcos of the precedent set by Brazilian Rolls Royce, just like that the transfer fees for top, top players doubled this year. Whether they are worth it or not, is just a matter of perception (they aren't). Lol.

Ok I'll stop with the rolling jokes in case a Brazilian or PSG fan wants my head.
PSG, Neymar and Brazil futbol fan here...

You're on a roll :jecklinsmile:

I think law of supply and demand will come into play here. The maker can ask $5k all he wants but if nobody buys it then he'll have to rethink his marketing gimmick.
 
Aug 11, 2018 at 2:19 AM Post #11,719 of 39,250

435279

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Capture.PNG

Wow that's exclusive, mere peasants like me aren't even allowed to look. :)
 
Aug 11, 2018 at 2:21 AM Post #11,720 of 39,250

klyzon

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PSG, Neymar and Brazil futbol fan here...

You're on a roll :jecklinsmile:

I think law of supply and demand will come into play here. The maker can ask $5k all he wants but if nobody buys it then he'll have to rethink his marketing gimmick.
Problem is with that kind of pricing, everyone will follow suit. Losers will be consumers.
 
Aug 11, 2018 at 2:25 AM Post #11,721 of 39,250

bvng3540

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PSG, Neymar and Brazil futbol fan here...

You're on a roll :jecklinsmile:

I think law of supply and demand will come into play here. The maker can ask $5k all he wants but if nobody buys it then he'll have to rethink his marketing gimmick.
Look at 64 audio fourte, they sold way more than you can imagine, when it first came out, almost everyone reaction like they had now with se6
 
Aug 11, 2018 at 2:36 AM Post #11,722 of 39,250

kdphan

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Look at 64 audio fourte, they sold way more than you can imagine, when it first came out, almost everyone reaction like they had now with se6
Well that's because the drivers in the fourte are made from a unicorn's horn.
 
Aug 11, 2018 at 2:42 AM Post #11,724 of 39,250

teknorob23

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Look at 64 audio fourte, they sold way more than you can imagine, when it first came out, almost everyone reaction like they had now with se6

With 64audio atleast there’s some apparent rationale. The r&d, bespoke tooling, etc to make the tia fourte or 18 driver a18, or the like where sales volumes are going to be small has to be paid for, whereas the reasons for the se6’s price tag seem far more opaque. There’s more than an air of self sabotage, or perhaps this is just how much white rhino semen costs in the quantities required to encase 6 tubes/drivers or is it just a gold old fashioned typo...
 
Aug 11, 2018 at 3:29 AM Post #11,727 of 39,250

Deezel177

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first i heard of it as well, my guess is a custom version of the atlas. either that or a unique build, maybe a hybrid?

either way, its gotta have a dynamic driver due to the port

Edit: Its a single 10mm dynamic driver, so a custom atlas
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/campfire-audio-custom-in-ear-monitor-beta.885013/

further reading suggests this is a beta program, with 30 available spots, may be too late, but since it isn't final product anyways, probably not worth the trouble unless you're a reviewer (so what you gonna do deezel)

@ryanjsoo's our resident Campfire Audio expert. I'm sure he'll have a hand on it before I do. :wink:

I think it their custom earmold for the atlas, I was told by one if the rep to check back late summer

On the subject of the new Spiral Ears IEM, not only do I heartily agree with previous posters who've politely suggested they are essentially a ripoff, but if its true the only way to audition a pair is to open your wallet and fork out 5k+ Euro then I would also suggest anyone who buys a pair of SE6's and posts their impressions online for others to read is inadvertently endorsing and promoting this shameful pricing strategy, and making themselves part of the problem.

Sorry if this sounds a tad harsh, but if Spiral Ears can get away adding thousands of Euros to their prices purely because their products "sound good" and audiophiles aren't savvy enough to call them out on it, other companies will inevitably follow suit. Furthermore, this presents an open invitation for the sharks of the two-channel audio world -where blatant snake-oil products are common- to come and 'join the party' and begin fleecing audiophiles on overpriced IEMs, DAPs and cables. Which I suppose if you happen to be cynical you could argue is already happening, but not to the extent these SE6's and a few other recently overpriced IEMs represent.

Without wanting to talk out of turn, I really do feel like this is a bigger issue than just the price of one single IEM from a single company. Ultimately it has ramifications for the industry as a whole, and how it sees itself - does it exist to sell audio products to enthusiasts, or luxury products to the rich who crave status symbols?

Exactly. In my opinion, the most outrageous thing about the SE6's price are the policies surrounding it: No auditions and no ownership transfers. Essentially, Spiral Ear is asking you to blindly invest in an extremely expensive product with absolutely zero ways to get any semblance of your money back should you ever want or need to. At least upper-echelon products like the Tia Fourte or the Erlkonig can be demo'ed or sold off (since they're universal fit). Essentially, Spiral Ear is banking on your curiosity to make a purchase you can't take back nor capitalise on under any circumstance. In terms of the actual number they're charging, like many have echo'ed, one can find value in the Tia Fourte's complex chamber-less design or the Erlkonig's four sigs (plus interchangeable faceplates and silver shell). I certainly can't say they justify the asking price, but at least there's something. Spiral Ear is selling the SE6 on sound and sound alone at a much higher price than both, and there's no way for you to even evaluate that before making a purchase.

The saddest thing about this is - knowing Grzegorz - the SE6 could very well be an awesome-sounding product. The circumstances around it simply constrict it from any potential interest. Hopefully he gets word of the backlash and considers at least a universal demo, but if not, then this'll be another unicorn reserved for... special people. :wink:
 
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Aug 11, 2018 at 4:52 AM Post #11,728 of 39,250

Wyville

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Has anyone heard anything about this yet? A CIEM from Campfire Audio? My IEM Store is a legit dealer in Taiwan, so I doubt this is false in any way. Thoughts?

That looks interesting. Campfire Audio is doing some really cool stuff and @Jackpot77 has only added to my desire for hearing their IEMs, the Atlas for starters, but the Andromeda as well. I wonder if a new Andromeda is on the cards now that the Atlas has been released?
On the subject of the new Spiral Ears IEM, not only do I heartily agree with previous posters who've politely suggested they are essentially a ripoff, but if its true the only way to audition a pair is to open your wallet and fork out 5k+ Euro then I would also suggest anyone who buys a pair of SE6's and posts their impressions online for others to read is inadvertently endorsing and promoting this shameful pricing strategy, and making themselves part of the problem.

Sorry if this sounds a tad harsh, but if Spiral Ears can get away adding thousands of Euros to their prices purely because their products "sound good" and audiophiles aren't savvy enough to call them out on it, other companies will inevitably follow suit. Furthermore, this presents an open invitation for the sharks of the two-channel audio world -where blatant snake-oil products are common- to come and 'join the party' and begin fleecing audiophiles on overpriced IEMs, DAPs and cables. Which I suppose if you happen to be cynical you could argue is already happening, but not to the extent these SE6's and a few other recently overpriced IEMs represent.

Without wanting to talk out of turn, I really do feel like this is a bigger issue than just the price of one single IEM from a single company. Ultimately it has ramifications for the industry as a whole, and how it sees itself - does it exist to sell audio products to enthusiasts, or luxury products to the rich who crave status symbols?
Exactly, and here is the curious thing. Like Nic said earlier, many of the premium IEMs such as the Erlkönig, Soundwriter and Arthur are targeted at wealthy people with a taste for shiny things. What is the target market for the SE6? They are just IEMs, no flash and nothing superfluous about them, I doubt people looking for status symbols will be drawn to them. Yet at the same time they are priced so high that even enthusiasts with a lot of disposable income will think twice about buying them.
Wow I just checked back into this thread after basically breast-feeding my dog post surgery for two days.
How is Tucker? Has everything gone well with the surgery? Buy him an extra toy from me! (Or I'll send him a few. You should have seen the mountain of toys we bought for my sister in-law's dog... :D )
Dita audio is working on a new family of iem. Looks amazing.
Source https://twitter.com/K2Craft_JP/status/1027874907005177857

That looks very nice! There is something about Dita that always makes me loose my senses and I just want to buy it blindly. At HiFi Headphones they currently have the Awesome Truth Balanced Gold for sale at £599 and every time I see them I have to prevent myself from clicking "order" because... I just want them. No idea why Dita does this to me, as I have never heard any of their IEMs.
The saddest thing about this is - knowing Grzegorz - the SE6 could very well be an awesome-sounding product. The circumstances around it simply constrict it from any potential interest. Hopefully he gets word of the backlash and considers at least a universal demo, but if not, then this'll be another unicorn reserved for... special people. :wink:
I fully agree. Seeing the SE6 I don't even get angry like some people, I am just genuinely flabbergasted by Grzegorz's choices here. I have no doubt they will sound awesome, but sound perception is still an entirely subjective thing and you can't objectively state that "these have a €5,900 sound" because preferences play such a key role in whether or not IEMs are worth any price to any one person. Even if I were a millionaire I would not be interested in these because of the constrictions and because at this price they are competing with highly customisable (C)IEMs that come with tons of extra options. For one, Sony Just Ear comes to mind.
 
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Aug 11, 2018 at 5:23 AM Post #11,730 of 39,250

Wyville

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Hum not seing the page anymore, maybe Grzegorz was playing a joke on us all, especially when you look at the details...high res cable, any other cable would downgrade transparency. Doesn't sound like him.
Could be. I honestly hope so. The saddest thing about it would be that the industry is apparently at a point where a joke like that is indistinguishable from real (C)IEMs...
 

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