[ranfan]

The U10 is a more neutral than the U12, but not in the way you'd expect. The U10 isn't brighter or more crisp than the warmer U12, but it simply has a less rich and bloomy low-end, an ever-so-slightly more excited midrange, and a treble that's maybe a bit more accentuated, but still lacks the required extension to attain reference-level cleanliness, background blackness, and resolution. In my opinion, if you're stuck between the U10 and the U12, you might as well go for the latter; at least its bass and naturalness keeps things really interesting



Agreed. The W900's treble is its Achilles' heel. As @Mimouille said, it's a lack of sparkle and air that doesn't necessarily mute the rest of the signature because of its fantastic extension, but leaves the top-end sounding rather shy and incoherent.



Sure! Please keep in mind that I'm not as familiar with the VE8's signature as I am with the U12, which is really idiosyncratic, but I tend to remember an IEM's sound more when I'm not enjoying it, because it instantly puts me in a critical mode. I have a decent amount of confidence in my thoughts, but please take some, if not most, of this with a grain of salt.

As before, starting from the low-end, the VE8 is the absolute clear winner in quantity and a hair above in quality. The VE8's sub-bass is pretty unassuming, as is the Zeus's, but its darker tone and superior extension allows it to stand out more in the mix and with more control, while the Zeus trades this off for air and speed. The VE8's mid-bass-to-lower-mid region is probably where it differs from the rest of the competition in the TOTL market: Bold, thick, and rich.

The VE8's lower-midrange and upper-bass regions are where the VE8 draws forth its beautifully natural tonality, body for its instrument and vocal presentation, and dynamic energy. It's a clearly audible hump that doesn't make the VE8 "bassy" per se or too impactful; rather, it makes the VE8 sound beautifully thick, meaty, and chesty. Although this causes the VE8's low-end to lack a bit of speed compared to IEMs like the A18, it's still flagship-class, and the A18 cannot sound this natural.

The Zeus, on the other hand, has a more linear transition from the upper-bass/lower midrange into the rest of the mids. Its note weight is thick as well, but it's not as weighty and deep as the VE8. The advantage this has is vocals and instruments on the Zeus sound clearer and more realistic, while the VE8's meatier presentation sounds more natural and life-like.

The difference between realistic and life-like here is: Listening to a band on the Zeus sounds like you're hearing them perform through incredibly transparent speakers in a studio environment, where every instrument and nuance is ripe for the picking. The VE8's more life-like presentation, in-turn, puts you right in the room they're performing in, smack-dab in the middle of the stage. It isn't as well-organised and notes aren't lined up around your head for you ready to be analysed, but it's a more emotionally-rewarding experience, with amazing dynamics, fun-factor, and naturalness.

The soundstage and presentation of the VE8 also differs to that of the Zeus. The Zeus (XIV, especially) is upfront, intimate and engaging, yet so cleanly and elegantly organised, that it never feels crowded, unincisive, or incoherent; everything comes together to form a big wall of sound staring back at you. The VE8 contrasts this by having a more proportionate stage that closely wraps around your head, and has the perfect balance between compression and expansion, such that it never feels packed or congested, but everything is weaved together and never too segregated (as can be the case for the Zeus-R), all for optimum engagement, fun, and musicality. Again, it's watching a band vs. actually being in the band.

Transitioning to the treble of the VE8, you get highs that perfectly supplement the rest of the frequency range and is silky-smooth, completely unobstrusive, yet brilliantly-extended, clear, naturally-present, lively, and engaging. The VE8's main source of clarity is a medium upper-mid peak to aid in vocal articulation, crunchy guitars, snare hits, etc., but what fuels it's fantastic resolution is its treble extension. Similar to the Zeus, they excel in accurately portraying decaying fundamentals and their resulting overtones. Though, where they diverge is how they present this: Dark and light.

Following the VE8's upper-mid peak is an attenuated upper-treble, which imbues the overall soundscape with a natural atmosphere. It is darker than neutral, but it is more tonally accurate than the Zeus, and clarity and resolution are maintained by the airiness of the upper-midrange, and, again, that excellent extension. Meanwhile, the Zeus has a lesser upper-mid peak, which results in a loss in air compared to the VE8. But, the Zeus's treble is tuned a brighter tonality whilst maintaining its smoothness, which results in a more neutral atmosphere, and then extends just like the VE8 for brilliant detail retrieval. This means the Zeus does not have the finesse up-top that the VE8 has, but it is arguably clearer and more resolute than it.

Conversely, the VE8 isn't as razor-sharp as IEMs the Dream, or the Samba, or the A18, but it has a cohesiveness and sophistication in its treble presentation that's unassuming and praise-worthy all at the same time. It does the exact opposite of what I accused the W900 and U12's treble of doing, and if perfectly supplies the rest of the signature with the extension, air, energy, and sparkle that it needs; no more and no less.

So yeah, that's pretty much all of it. I sincerely hope I haven't said anything that I end up taking back when I get the fortunate opportunity of listening to the VE8 again one day, and I sincerely hope this helps a lot of you guys out there.

Cheers!

And the TGIF award goes to..

 

[Wyville]

And the TGIF award goes to..

TGIF!
TGIF!
TGIF!
TGIF!
T G I F !!!

 

[ranfan]

TGIF!
TGIF!
TGIF!
TGIF!
T G I F !!!

 

[noplsestar]

Sure! Please keep in mind that I'm not as familiar with the VE8's signature as I am with the U12, which is really idiosyncratic, but I tend to remember an IEM's sound more when I'm not enjoying it, because it instantly puts me in a critical mode. I have a decent amount of confidence in my thoughts, but please take some, if not most, of this with a grain of salt.

As before, starting from the low-end, the VE8 is the absolute clear winner in quantity and a hair above in quality. The VE8's sub-bass is pretty unassuming, as is the Zeus's, but its darker tone and superior extension allows it to stand out more in the mix and with more control, while the Zeus trades this off for air and speed. The VE8's mid-bass-to-lower-mid region is probably where it differs from the rest of the competition in the TOTL market: Bold, thick, and rich.

The VE8's lower-midrange and upper-bass regions are where the VE8 draws forth its beautifully natural tonality, body for its instrument and vocal presentation, and dynamic energy. It's a clearly audible hump that doesn't make the VE8 "bassy" per se or too impactful; rather, it makes the VE8 sound beautifully thick, meaty, and chesty. Although this causes the VE8's low-end to lack a bit of speed compared to IEMs like the A18, it's still flagship-class, and the A18 cannot sound this natural.

The Zeus, on the other hand, has a more linear transition from the upper-bass/lower midrange into the rest of the mids. Its note weight is thick as well, but it's not as weighty and deep as the VE8. The advantage this has is vocals and instruments on the Zeus sound clearer and more realistic, while the VE8's meatier presentation sounds more natural and life-like.

The difference between realistic and life-like here is: Listening to a band on the Zeus sounds like you're hearing them perform through incredibly transparent speakers in a studio environment, where every instrument and nuance is ripe for the picking. The VE8's more life-like presentation, in-turn, puts you right in the room they're performing in, smack-dab in the middle of the stage. It isn't as well-organised and notes aren't lined up around your head for you ready to be analysed, but it's a more emotionally-rewarding experience, with amazing dynamics, fun-factor, and naturalness.

The soundstage and presentation of the VE8 also differs to that of the Zeus. The Zeus (XIV, especially) is upfront, intimate and engaging, yet so cleanly and elegantly organised, that it never feels crowded, unincisive, or incoherent; everything comes together to form a big wall of sound staring back at you. The VE8 contrasts this by having a more proportionate stage that closely wraps around your head, and has the perfect balance between compression and expansion, such that it never feels packed or congested, but everything is weaved together and never too segregated (as can be the case for the Zeus-R), all for optimum engagement, fun, and musicality. Again, it's watching a band vs. actually being in the band.

Transitioning to the treble of the VE8, you get highs that perfectly supplement the rest of the frequency range and is silky-smooth, completely unobstrusive, yet brilliantly-extended, clear, naturally-present, lively, and engaging. The VE8's main source of clarity is a medium upper-mid peak to aid in vocal articulation, crunchy guitars, snare hits, etc., but what fuels it's fantastic resolution is its treble extension. Similar to the Zeus, they excel in accurately portraying decaying fundamentals and their resulting overtones. Though, where they diverge is how they present this: Dark and light.

Following the VE8's upper-mid peak is an attenuated upper-treble, which imbues the overall soundscape with a natural atmosphere. It is darker than neutral, but it is more tonally accurate than the Zeus, and clarity and resolution are maintained by the airiness of the upper-midrange, and, again, that excellent extension. Meanwhile, the Zeus has a lesser upper-mid peak, which results in a loss in air compared to the VE8. But, the Zeus's treble is tuned a brighter tonality whilst maintaining its smoothness, which results in a more neutral atmosphere, and then extends just like the VE8 for brilliant detail retrieval. This means the Zeus does not have the finesse up-top that the VE8 has, but it is arguably clearer and more resolute than it.

Conversely, the VE8 isn't as razor-sharp as IEMs the Dream, or the Samba, or the A18, but it has a cohesiveness and sophistication in its treble presentation that's unassuming and praise-worthy all at the same time. It does the exact opposite of what I accused the W900 and U12's treble of doing, and if perfectly supplies the rest of the signature with the extension, air, energy, and sparkle that it needs; no more and no less.

So yeah, that's pretty much all of it. I sincerely hope I haven't said anything that I end up taking back when I get the fortunate opportunity of listening to the VE8 again one day, and I sincerely hope this helps a lot of you guys out there.

Cheers!

Wow, thank you man! That was a great and informative comparison!

 

[Mimouille]

Guess who received the Flat 4 Keyaki and Akakeyaki for two weeks testing...hihihi

 

[Deezel177]

Guess who received the Flat 4 Keyaki and Akakeyaki for two weeks testing...hihihi

It'll be interesting to hear your take on them coming from your SE5U and VE8; Ocharaku's tend to sound wildly different from the two aforementioned CIEMs

 

[Mimouille]

It'll be interesting to hear your take on them coming from your SE5U and VE8; Ocharaku's tend to sound wildly different from the two aforementioned CIEMs

I had the Kaede a while ago and it seems progress has been made.

 

[ezekiel77]

So

Guess who received the Flat 4 Keyaki and Akakeyaki for two weeks testing...hihihi

Honestly, I hope they kick RE2000's tail.

 

[Kerouac]

Guess who received the Flat 4 Keyaki and Akakeyaki for two weeks testing...hihihi

My guess would be: that awesome guy, who dates supermodels

Happy auditioning/listening!

 

[Dingding123]

The U10 is a more neutral than the U12, but not in the way you'd expect. The U10 isn't brighter or more crisp than the warmer U12, but it simply has a less rich and bloomy low-end, an ever-so-slightly more excited midrange, and a treble that's maybe a bit more accentuated, but still lacks the required extension to attain reference-level cleanliness, background blackness, and resolution. In my opinion, if you're stuck between the U10 and the U12, you might as well go for the latter; at least its bass and naturalness keeps things really interesting



Agreed. The W900's treble is its Achilles' heel. As @Mimouille said, it's a lack of sparkle and air that doesn't necessarily mute the rest of the signature because of its fantastic extension, but leaves the top-end sounding rather shy and incoherent.



Sure! Please keep in mind that I'm not as familiar with the VE8's signature as I am with the U12, which is really idiosyncratic, but I tend to remember an IEM's sound more when I'm not enjoying it, because it instantly puts me in a critical mode. I have a decent amount of confidence in my thoughts, but please take some, if not most, of this with a grain of salt.

As before, starting from the low-end, the VE8 is the absolute clear winner in quantity and a hair above in quality. The VE8's sub-bass is pretty unassuming, as is the Zeus's, but its darker tone and superior extension allows it to stand out more in the mix and with more control, while the Zeus trades this off for air and speed. The VE8's mid-bass-to-lower-mid region is probably where it differs from the rest of the competition in the TOTL market: Bold, thick, and rich.

The VE8's lower-midrange and upper-bass regions are where the VE8 draws forth its beautifully natural tonality, body for its instrument and vocal presentation, and dynamic energy. It's a clearly audible hump that doesn't make the VE8 "bassy" per se or too impactful; rather, it makes the VE8 sound beautifully thick, meaty, and chesty. Although this causes the VE8's low-end to lack a bit of speed compared to IEMs like the A18, it's still flagship-class, and the A18 cannot sound this natural.

The Zeus, on the other hand, has a more linear transition from the upper-bass/lower midrange into the rest of the mids. Its note weight is thick as well, but it's not as weighty and deep as the VE8. The advantage this has is vocals and instruments on the Zeus sound clearer and more realistic, while the VE8's meatier presentation sounds more natural and life-like.

The difference between realistic and life-like here is: Listening to a band on the Zeus sounds like you're hearing them perform through incredibly transparent speakers in a studio environment, where every instrument and nuance is ripe for the picking. The VE8's more life-like presentation, in-turn, puts you right in the room they're performing in, smack-dab in the middle of the stage. It isn't as well-organised and notes aren't lined up around your head for you ready to be analysed, but it's a more emotionally-rewarding experience, with amazing dynamics, fun-factor, and naturalness.

The soundstage and presentation of the VE8 also differs to that of the Zeus. The Zeus (XIV, especially) is upfront, intimate and engaging, yet so cleanly and elegantly organised, that it never feels crowded, unincisive, or incoherent; everything comes together to form a big wall of sound staring back at you. The VE8 contrasts this by having a more proportionate stage that closely wraps around your head, and has the perfect balance between compression and expansion, such that it never feels packed or congested, but everything is weaved together and never too segregated (as can be the case for the Zeus-R), all for optimum engagement, fun, and musicality. Again, it's watching a band vs. actually being in the band.

Transitioning to the treble of the VE8, you get highs that perfectly supplement the rest of the frequency range and is silky-smooth, completely unobstrusive, yet brilliantly-extended, clear, naturally-present, lively, and engaging. The VE8's main source of clarity is a medium upper-mid peak to aid in vocal articulation, crunchy guitars, snare hits, etc., but what fuels it's fantastic resolution is its treble extension. Similar to the Zeus, they excel in accurately portraying decaying fundamentals and their resulting overtones. Though, where they diverge is how they present this: Dark and light.

Following the VE8's upper-mid peak is an attenuated upper-treble, which imbues the overall soundscape with a natural atmosphere. It is darker than neutral, but it is more tonally accurate than the Zeus, and clarity and resolution are maintained by the airiness of the upper-midrange, and, again, that excellent extension. Meanwhile, the Zeus has a lesser upper-mid peak, which results in a loss in air compared to the VE8. But, the Zeus's treble is tuned a brighter tonality whilst maintaining its smoothness, which results in a more neutral atmosphere, and then extends just like the VE8 for brilliant detail retrieval. This means the Zeus does not have the finesse up-top that the VE8 has, but it is arguably clearer and more resolute than it.

Conversely, the VE8 isn't as razor-sharp as IEMs the Dream, or the Samba, or the A18, but it has a cohesiveness and sophistication in its treble presentation that's unassuming and praise-worthy all at the same time. It does the exact opposite of what I accused the W900 and U12's treble of doing, and if perfectly supplies the rest of the signature with the extension, air, energy, and sparkle that it needs; no more and no less.

So yeah, that's pretty much all of it. I sincerely hope I haven't said anything that I end up taking back when I get the fortunate opportunity of listening to the VE8 again one day, and I sincerely hope this helps a lot of you guys out there.

Cheers!

Well said @Deezel177 ! It's exactly how I remember VE8 to be. One thing that I would like to add though, is that VE8 seemed to as a fuller and more proportionate soundstage than Zeus. VE8 sounds deeper on the Z axis while Zeus (especially Zeus R) sounds wider on the Y axis. Therefore, VE8 really excels in 3D imaging, especially when paired with a good cable.
Just to throw in another spanner, EE Arthur's imaging is the most precise I've heard. I'm looking forward to VE8 special edition (if there ever is such a thing) that's crafted with some special internal wiring

 

[Deezel177]

Well said @Deezel177 ! It's exactly how I remember VE8 to be. One thing that I would like to add though, is that VE8 seemed to as a fuller and more proportionate soundstage than Zeus. VE8 sounds deeper on the Z axis while Zeus (especially Zeus R) sounds wider on the Y axis. Therefore, VE8 really excels in 3D imaging, especially when paired with a good cable.
Just to throw in another spanner, EE Arthur's imaging is the most precise I've heard. I'm looking forward to VE8 special edition (if there ever is such a thing) that's crafted with some special internal wiring

Also known as... the VE8K (SGD)

 

[ductrung3993]

Is the Zeus's mids similar to Audio Technica's AD series (open) in any ways?

 

[Dingding123]

OMO nice pun there
But yeah, I guess I can foresee such ridiculous pricing coming soon. Yet there will always be those who is able and willing to purchase.
Well, that's the invisible hand at work; that's how the free market functions. I don't mind so long as it brings innovation into the industry.

 

[Deezel177]

OMO nice pun there
But yeah, I guess I can foresee such ridiculous pricing coming soon. Yet there will always be those who is able and willing to purchase.
Well, that's the invisible hand at work; that's how the free market functions. I don't mind so long as it brings innovation into the industry.

I don't mean to offend or call anyone out by saying this, but let's be honest, you can't really call swapping out the internal wiring of an IEM, "Innovation."

 

[Dingding123]

@ductrung3993 Hey, sorry i've not heard the AD series before, so I might not be the best person to answer the question. However, to compare an IEM to an open backed headphone is like comparing apples with oranges. They may both sound very sweet, or even share the same sound signature (even similar frequency response curve), they will still sound substantively different, for that they will have very different timbres. Imagine playing the same note on a guitar and a ukelele, they will sound very different, won't they?

@Deezel177 to be honest, I wouldn't call that an innovation either. An innovation, to me, is something that improves a certain experience by altering the established practices which are often taken for granted. A case in point would be switches on IEMs that allow users to choose for the signature they prefer.