[nmatheis]

I'm glad more information about Celeste is being released, even if it is ahead of schedule. It is certainly visually stunning, putting all those steam punk / clockwork IEM to shame because the gears here are actually functional. Add Forrest's magical tuning with a whopping 108 iterations, and I think we're looking at an true audiophile nerd's delight. I'm very, very excited for this release!

Flcforrestwei: Are you going to open an announcement thread next week? I can always open one of you want. Just let me know

 

[jarnopp]

Forrest,

Thanks for your thoughts and sharing both your new design and thinking. If you would allow, I'd compare the FLC8s to a product in a different category, the Chord Mojo. It has an awkward price point, like the 8s. Too high for entry level (though frankly, they should stretch) and too low for "audiophiles" to consider. Thus, there is Hugo and Dave.

But the math on Mojo is simple. As long as each unit is profitable, let's say even only $100 at a $600 price, they are probably selling 4x (maybe much more) as many units as they would at $1000, where they would make 4x as much.

I think you should try to maximize your return on Celeste using the best marketing info you have on what buyers might pay, what the cost to produce is, and the demand curve. Also, factor in what the flagship release will do for 8s sales.

The more successful FLC can be, the better able you will be to produce great products. Best of luck!

 

[ajaxender]

For most Chinese customers, visual is the first factor they consider a earphone.

 
Oh of course, I mean its also pretty common for clockwork, gears etc to appeal to people outside of China too. But it being functional too is so cool, it will draw a lot of interest.

 

[canali]

if the product does really punch well above its weight i think you need to step up the game and try to get it out to some pros
who have some good connections in magazines, websites, online colums etc with good readership....it'll have more credibility that way, too...being widely followed and respected on head fi isn't enough, imo.

 

[nmatheis]

Agree canali. Reaching out to Auduophiliac, AudiophileOn, Cymbacavum, Headfonia, etc. websites would be good. I don't read any magazines, so I'm not sure which of those would help. Any suggestions?

 

[canali]

Agree @canali. Reaching out to Auduophiliac, AudiophileOn, Cymbacavum, Headfonia, etc. websites would be good. I don't read any magazines, so I'm not sure which of those would help. Any suggestions?

not just them and  apologize but i don't frequent all of those
....but what also of  major columns and newspapers (huffington post, forbes, time, etc) they have 'hometech and audio columns'.
gear patrol....he could provide both his iems, should a reviewer want to focus on one or the other price points.
 
or if that is too general for his more pricey iems then
youtube too: the sound guys, cnet...sound and vision...heck just look at the wirecutter's team when they do a review.
 
think big or stay home....just need one or two well connected people to start to spread the buzz around
and it might lead to more reviews.
 
http://thewirecutter.com/reviews/sonos-player/

Sources

• Chris Heinonen, Sonos PLAY:1 Review, Reference Home Theater, October 14, 2013
   
• Matthew Moskovciak, Gorgeous Sonos PLAY:1 hits the sweet spot, CNET, October 14, 2013
• Brent Butterworth, Review: Sonos PLAY:1 Wireless Sound System, About.com
• Andrew Williams, Sonos PLAY:1 review, Trusted Reviews, October 14, 2013
• Brian Lam, Lifechanger: Happiness Is a Loaded Sonos, Gizmodo, September 12, 2010
• Sonos PLAY:5, What Hi-Fi?, October 29, 2015
• Ty Pendlebury, senior associate editor at CNET, Interview, 2016
• Darryl Wilkinson, writer at Sound & Vision, Interview, 2016

and the same applies to respected critics in china, hk and taiwan (heck  also japan which loves to spend $$$ on headfi)....reach out to them, too, to somehow get your product on their radar for a listen, at least

 

[Koolpep]

No, I'm not that naive:bigsmile_face:  I think that products like FLC's and SW3's are just right priced. If I only smell there is some marketing involved to it's pricing, I'll just pass. But that's just me and I know this is business after all. It's a great time for audio enthusiasts who are looking further than their local electro market. I feel Forrest and some others started a revolution. Hope they're gonna expand it.

I hope you didn't feel insulted by my post, was absolutely not my intention. Didn't want to imply anything. And as I said, the great thing is, we can get amazing products for small-ish prices these days. So it was more a "enjoy it while it lasts" post. Cheers!!

 

[Koolpep]

I don't see any inconsistencies with my comments and Phonak's PR release.  I know Phonak is a huge company and sells very expensive and well-regarded hearing aids.  I of course have no way to know how many 232's were sold.  But I remember well how much time they were in development and then tuned and re-tuned with Jude's help I believe.  There was huge anticipation over them and then when the price was released, the air just went  out of the balloon.  Not many reviews surfaced and not many people here purchased them.  I'm sure Phonak was expecting a continuation of the success of the PFE (or else they wouldn't have undertaken the effort)  and when they didn't get it, they decided to focus on their core business with which they had a higher degree of understanding of the market and more experience.  I also wish they had stayed in.  I do think the tremendous jump they tried to make between their first model and the second was too big of a reach, and Phonak was and is used to succeeding, which they knew they could do with their hearing aids.

Hey thanks for more detailed explanation, I was just curious (and also not trying to find inconsistencies or negate what you were saying?) - I just wanted to know if there is any sources where phonak themselves mentions this and if there is anything more to it. I mean you are right, if a non profitable business activity eats your R&D budgets for your core products, you need to cut it off. It just might be as simple as that. Product line is below expectations, continue with it, yes/no. No. Ok. Move on, nothing to see here

Cheers!

 

[willowbrook]

The Chinese market would be much more appealing of course because it is no comparison in numbers compared to international market. Probably most people who are in the IEMs market for value are hoping for the lowest possible price to get the best of it, but that's not always possible...

 

[Koolpep]

deleted as per request

 
Dear Forrest,
 
great looking IEM for sure.And I am sure it will be a success. I understand your dilemma - few people buy the middle product. A lot of brands have this issue. Let's say you have 3 products 149, 549, 899 the middle one usually is the slowest selling. People love the entry level and the top of the line but the middle models sell below expectations. Why? Don't know for sure, but the assumption is that most people who are ready to spend 600 on something are more willing to stretch out to spend 300 more to get the top of the line, than the "second" best. If you are already in these price regions....
 
Example: in my region, the hifiman HE400i and 400s are selling well, as is the HE-1000 - the one in the middle HE560 - not so much. Same with Westone (W60 and UMPro50 selling well as do the entry level but W30/W40 not so much`) and Shure (846 selling well, entry level selling well, in between pretty ho-hum).
 
But that of course is just the Middle East and things might be different to other markets.
 
I am sad to learn that the FLC8S seems to be a considered an "in the middle" product in China and hence doesn't sell as well as you would like. Maybe you should think about creating a successor of the FLC8S for the Chinese market with more upmarket materials, different cable and whatnot to "justify" a price increase and hence different "status"?
 
Anyhow, I am crossing fingers the Celeste will be a success, it looks very cool and as mechanical watch enthusiast, I love to see gears moving
 
One more tip: more choice is not always good. 108 possibilities - I know a lot of people who would be dead scared to have something with so many options. Not everybody will love this abundance of tuning options. Though the FLC8S fans like me are are surely excited.
 

 

[willowbrook]

   
Dear Forrest,
 
great looking IEM for sure.And I am sure it will be a success. I understand your dilemma - few people buy the middle product. A lot of brands have this issue. Let's say you have 3 products 149, 549, 899 the middle one usually is the slowest selling. People love the entry level and the top of the line but the middle models sell below expectations. Why? Don't know for sure, but the assumption is that most people who are ready to spend 600 on something are more willing to stretch out to spend 300 more to get the top of the line, than the "second" best. If you are already in these price regions....
 
Example: in my region, the hifiman HE400i and 400s are selling well, as is the HE-1000 - the one in the middle HE560 - not so much. Same with Westone (W60 and UMPro50 selling well as do the entry level but W30/W40 not so much`) and Shure (846 selling well, entry level selling well, in between pretty ho-hum).
 
But that of course is just the Middle East and things might be different to other markets.
 
I am sad to learn that the FLC8S seems to be a considered an "in the middle" product in China and hence doesn't sell as well as you would like. Maybe you should think about creating a successor of the FLC8S for the Chinese market with more upmarket materials, different cable and whatnot to "justify" a price increase and hence different "status"?
 
Anyhow, I am crossing fingers the Celeste will be a success, it looks very cool and as mechanical watch enthusiast, I love to see gears moving
 
One more tip: more choice is not always good. 108 possibilities - I know a lot of people who would be dead scared to have something with so many options. Not everybody will love this abundance of tuning options. Though the FLC8S fans like me are are surely excited.
 

Very well said, it is a huge dilemma indeed.

 

[awayeah]

@Flcforrestwei Maybe you could consider a campaign on indiegogo or kickstarter? It's a win-win-win situation You could give us a chance to buy it at more resonable price for short period (limited quantity), promote it globally and then sell it at a higher price point. It should be a hit!

 

[audio123]

   
Dear Forrest,
 
great looking IEM for sure.And I am sure it will be a success. I understand your dilemma - few people buy the middle product. A lot of brands have this issue. Let's say you have 3 products 149, 549, 899 the middle one usually is the slowest selling. People love the entry level and the top of the line but the middle models sell below expectations. Why? Don't know for sure, but the assumption is that most people who are ready to spend 600 on something are more willing to stretch out to spend 300 more to get the top of the line, than the "second" best. If you are already in these price regions....
 
Example: in my region, the hifiman HE400i and 400s are selling well, as is the HE-1000 - the one in the middle HE560 - not so much. Same with Westone (W60 and UMPro50 selling well as do the entry level but W30/W40 not so much`) and Shure (846 selling well, entry level selling well, in between pretty ho-hum).
 
But that of course is just the Middle East and things might be different to other markets.
 
I am sad to learn that the FLC8S seems to be a considered an "in the middle" product in China and hence doesn't sell as well as you would like. Maybe you should think about creating a successor of the FLC8S for the Chinese market with more upmarket materials, different cable and whatnot to "justify" a price increase and hence different "status"?
 
Anyhow, I am crossing fingers the Celeste will be a success, it looks very cool and as mechanical watch enthusiast, I love to see gears moving
 
One more tip: more choice is not always good. 108 possibilities - I know a lot of people who would be dead scared to have something with so many options. Not everybody will love this abundance of tuning options. Though the FLC8S fans like me are are surely excited.
 

well there are some exceptions though. In the case of final audio design, heaven vi is the best selling so everything is uncertain

 

[all999]

@Flcforrestwei Maybe you could consider a campaign on indiegogo or kickstarter? It's a win-win-win situation You could give us a chance to buy it at more resonable price for short period (limited quantity), promote it globally and then sell it at a higher price point. It should be a hit!

I'm in!

 

[Whaleshark12]

Dear Friends:
Thank for all your suggestions!

Another sample is Oriolus (I don't know how many people here heard it), Mini Audio has no earphone experience all at, but they priced their first product Oriolus at over 900USD, and it becomes the best Chinese earphone!
 

That's some really cool pic, looking forward to it!! 
 
I thought Oriolus is part of Ibasso's? Yes I have heard it last Friday, flc sound very similar to it but I find the upper mid of Oriolus is really lacking. Tbh, I can't justify that iem for that price tag. That's just my opinion .