[ajaxender]

I think success is a relative term. These things don't need to sell in their hundreds of thousands. I look at an operation not so much like the ones you mention - although I don't think Campfire is as big as you think, established as they may be; the Andromeda is selling out more because of supply, not because of demand for a $1100 item - and its not exactly comparable.
 
Look more at Tralucent. I don't believe they have a presence at all outside of head-fi. They sell very high priced IEMs to what seems like a relatively small number of people who adore them. Thats the key - at that price point they've long passed the point of being fiscally prudent. Its all about the emotional connection.
 
The thing is, the FLC8 has done that already, but at what is obviously a more accessible price point. There will be more than a few people wondering what Forrest could do at a higher price range, and now we get that answer. 
 
Besides that, you have the point of interest - the tuning. A degree of difference is of immense help in the TOTL market. You think Noble is where it is purely because the Wizard tunes a fine IEM, by most accounts? Not entirely, its the Wizard designs that turn heads first. Same with the Campfire shells and the Empire customs. In fact the Celestes difference is entirely unique; put 108 distinct combinations in some marketing and it will do just fine.

 

[audio123]

  I think success is a relative term. These things don't need to sell in their hundreds of thousands. I look at an operation not so much like the ones you mention - although I don't think Campfire is as big as you think, established as they may be; the Andromeda is selling out more because of supply, not because of demand for a $1100 item - and its not exactly comparable.
 
Look more at Tralucent. I don't believe they have a presence at all outside of head-fi. They sell very high priced IEMs to what seems like a relatively small number of people who adore them. Thats the key - at that price point they've long passed the point of being fiscally prudent. Its all about the emotional connection.
 
The thing is, the FLC8 has done that already, but at what is obviously a more accessible price point. There will be more than a few people wondering what Forrest could do at a higher price range, and now we get that answer. 
 
Besides that, you have the point of interest - the tuning. A degree of difference is of immense help in the TOTL market. You think Noble is where it is purely because the Wizard tunes a fine IEM, by most accounts? Not entirely, its the Wizard designs that turn heads first. Same with the Campfire shells and the Empire customs. In fact the Celestes difference is entirely unique; put 108 distinct combinations in some marketing and it will do just fine.

product differentiation is key to succeed in the market these days!

 

[willowbrook]

I mean something like $900 compared to $300 even if you are crazy about wanting it is very different. I would assume majority of people looking into 200~300 range IEMs would just skip it. It's way too out of budget for a lot. At those price range, I would assume there is a larger market for full sized cans rather than IEMs. Not that people wouldn't buy it, but no way is going to be successful/hyped as flc8s.

 

[leobigfield]

Yeah, but a $150 non-configurable Red-grey-gold sounding FLC, together with the $300 FLC8s with a $600 Celeste seems a good line-up to me that could make a lot of people put a lot more attention to FLC.

 

[willowbrook]

  Yeah, but a $150 non-configurable Red-grey-gold sounding FLC, together with the $300 FLC8s with a $600 Celeste seems a good line-up to me that could make a lot of people put a lot more attention to FLC.

500~600 would be a nice point. I don't know how much cost goes into R&D, but audio market is sure as hell a luxury market.

 

[RedTwilight]

  500~600 would be a nice point. I don't know how much cost goes into R&D, but audio market is sure as hell a luxury market.

 
Here's to hoping that it'll be 900 SGD instead (~600 USD) so we can all drool over it again haha.. I'm pretty curious as to how it'll look like.

 

[mochill]

500 dollars and count me in

 

[awayeah]

   
Well, you're of course right to some degree when saying that FLC Technology is none of the major big-players with a big budget and marketing team such as other brands. And FLC Technology is probably a name that is mostly known among enthusiastic headphone enthusiasts and not "Average Joe" beginner enthusiasts.

However, Forrest has got a very reputable background in the audio industry and worked for/with some of the major big players and also designed and developed some of the big players' established products. And with the FLC8s, he has released an extremely capable and highly versatile product, and I wouldn't even slightly hesitate to say that it is even worthy of being a flagship, as it kind of delivers flagship performance on a budget. Separation is excellent. The midrange is highly detailed and liquid, even outperforming my UERM in this regard. And the bass is very clean, quick and arid for coming out of a dynamic driver.
I'm personally convinced that the FLC8s could sell for (much) more if it was coming from a "major big player" company. And if the Celeste contains Forrest's advanced skills, ideas and tweaking capabilities and even sounds better than the FLC8s, I wouldn't be surprised if it was even more of an excellent performer, as there are really just a few things that probably stop the FLC8s from being perfect (for its price however, I see barely any flaw except for the microphonic stock cable).

 
I agree that FLC8s is flagship product - one of the best hybrids in the market. Because of that and the price policy of FLC (and others that do so) I think 1000$ IEMs are way overpriced and not necessarily better in any way (soundwise).
 
If new FLC is better than the present one - I would gladly buy it for a reasonable 450-550$. But I wouldn't even consider buying it for 900-1000$

 

[dlayman]

   
I agree that FLC8s is flagship product - one of the best hybrids in the market. Because of that and the price policy of FLC (and others that do so) I think 1000$ IEMs are way overpriced and not necessarily better in any way (soundwise).
 
If new FLC is better than the present one - I would gladly buy it for a reasonable 450-550$. But I wouldn't even consider buying it for 900-1000$

I think Forrest stated earlier they would be about triple the price of the 8S.  Its very possible he will be quite successful in that niche market provided the sound and build quality are first-rate.  I personally would never spend that much on an IEM, but if I won the lottery and did decide to spend that much FLC would be right up at the top of my list.
 
However, he was one thing working against him in this endeavor, I fear, and that is how good the 8S already is.  Phonak was a victim of their own success in the same manner.  The original PFE was one of the first tuneable IEM's and had sound quality that punched at a much higher price point.   They sold by the boatload and Phonak quickly developed a great rep in the IEM world.   They then developed a flagship product the PFE 232 that was about 5 times the price of the original PFE.  While it was a better sounding IEM, it wasn't five times better, and people recognized they could get 90% of the performance of the 232 for 20% of the price with the original PFE.  Phonak did sell some 232's, but I don't think they ever sold enough to recoup all the development effort and it wasn't long before they exited the business.
 
Now FLC is a bit different in that the new model will have features (more tuning options, soundstage tuning) to help differentiate the Celeste whereas PFE only had a dual driver vs. single driver to differentiate it.  I wish FLC all the success in the world with this, because I think making the absolute best product you can is a positive thing to do, and  things learned during its development might improve later less expensive products.  I imagine FLC is a pretty small organization and shooting for the moon is a high risk proposition even for a big company, let alone a small one, so I wish Forrest all the best with this, regardless of price.  (Its just something I will likely never own, but others have different priorities).

 

[all999]

  I think Forrest stated earlier they would be about triple the price of the 8S.  Its very possible he will be quite successful in that niche market provided the sound and build quality are first-rate. 

 
1000$ range? I love my FLC8 but I won't go at this price point. If not Forrest, there will be another. Even doubled price of FLC8 for the successor would be a tough nut to crack for me.
 
Chinese audio industry is going stronger and last thing they need is western pricing policy.

 

[Brooko]

Is it just me - or did I miss something?  I did a quick search on the thread for Celeste, and I can't find anywhere that Forrest has either mentioned triple the price of FLC8S or $900-$1000.  All I've seen is a single post (which looks unsubstantiated) from 123audio stating that is the price range - then a whole lot of conjecture after that.
 
Until I actually see something from Forrest on where the RRP will be - I'd suggest anything else is pure speculation.
 
Of course I stand to be corrected if there is something - but like I say, a quick search turned up nothing.  The only mention from Forrest is:

 We are focus on developing the new flagship now, we may not call it FLC9, because it's much better than FLC8, and the price will much higher.

 
It was posted back in May.
 
So audio123 - where did you get your price info?

 

[Koolpep]

   
1000$ range? I love my FLC8 but I won't go at this price point. If not Forrest, there will be another. Even doubled price of FLC8 for the successor would be a tough nut to crack for me.
 
Chinese audio industry is going stronger and last thing they need is western pricing policy.

Hmm, I know a few business men in China and I think they will charge as much as they can get away with (=what the market is willing to pay. And I don't mean that in a bad way, it's a business after all). They only charge less because it's the only way to move products. They are not charging less for the betterment of mankind.
 
Good thing is - informed people can get amazing sound quality at comparably low prices. Like the awesome FLC8S we all enjoy.
 
But once you are becoming a bigger player - you need distributors, warranty handling, service centers, sales reps, dealer network and whatnot - so you need to have a wider margin. IF you continue to be the one-man-show operating out of a garage, only doing direct sales - there are limits to growth (not a bad thing), as a great example - Schiit is doing it - true to their principles. I mean - look at amazon in Germany, Spain, Italy, France, no FLC8S for sale - these 4 countries are more than 254 Million people - nearly as much as the US, you can only buy the FLC8S in UK and not in the other Amazon online stores of these mentioned countries - there is a huge market out there to go after for FLC. 

 

[Koolpep]

  I think Forrest stated earlier they would be about triple the price of the 8S.  Its very possible he will be quite successful in that niche market provided the sound and build quality are first-rate.  I personally would never spend that much on an IEM, but if I won the lottery and did decide to spend that much FLC would be right up at the top of my list.
 
However, he was one thing working against him in this endeavor, I fear, and that is how good the 8S already is.  Phonak was a victim of their own success in the same manner.  The original PFE was one of the first tuneable IEM's and had sound quality that punched at a much higher price point.   They sold by the boatload and Phonak quickly developed a great rep in the IEM world.   They then developed a flagship product the PFE 232 that was about 5 times the price of the original PFE.  While it was a better sounding IEM, it wasn't five times better, and people recognized they could get 90% of the performance of the 232 for 20% of the price with the original PFE.  Phonak did sell some 232's, but I don't think they ever sold enough to recoup all the development effort and it wasn't long before they exited the business.
 
Now FLC is a bit different in that the new model will have features (more tuning options, soundstage tuning) to help differentiate the Celeste whereas PFE only had a dual driver vs. single driver to differentiate it.  I wish FLC all the success in the world with this, because I think making the absolute best product you can is a positive thing to do, and  things learned during its development might improve later less expensive products.  I imagine FLC is a pretty small organization and shooting for the moon is a high risk proposition even for a big company, let alone a small one, so I wish Forrest all the best with this, regardless of price.  (Its just something I will likely never own, but others have different priorities).

 
Hm, any sources for this assumption? I am honestly asking as I always wondered. Phonak, a company with 10,000 employees, 2 billion swiss francs (pretty much the same in USD) revenue, not being able to launch a few headphone models that gathered awards and accolades.... I suspect they didn't sell by the boatload or as much as they thought they would.... Anyhow - maybe it just didn't fit with their core business, hearing aids.....which are probably much more profitable and in a less competitive environment.
 
If someone has some insights as why they exited the headphone market, I would love to get some insights beside their own message: post #2

 

[dlayman]

  Is it just me - or did I miss something?  I did a quick search on the thread for Celeste, and I can't find anywhere that Forrest has either mentioned triple the price of FLC8S or $900-$1000.  All I've seen is a single post (which looks unsubstantiated) from 123audio stating that is the price range - then a whole lot of conjecture after that.
 
Until I actually see something from Forrest on where the RRP will be - I'd suggest anything else is pure speculation.
 
Of course I stand to be corrected if there is something - but like I say, a quick search turned up nothing.  The only mention from Forrest is:
 
It was posted back in May.
 
So audio123 - where did you get your price info?

 
I don't think any specific price has ever been confirmed by Forrest, he may in fact not even know himself what it will be.  I THOUGHT I had seen something about roughly a 3x increase, but I can't remember where and maybe I was mistaken.  If so I apologize to Forrest for my error.  Although, and yes this speculation, but from Forrest's enthusiasm about the Celeste and his comments about the how much development has/is going into them and that they will be "much better" and priced "much higher", and with the extraordinary features it will have, I think hoping for a a $200 increase is a pipe dream.

 

[dlayman]

   
Hm, any sources for this assumption? I am honestly asking as I always wondered. Phonak, a company with 10,000 employees, 2 billion swiss francs (pretty much the same in USD) revenue, not being able to launch a few headphone models that gathered awards and accolades.... I suspect they didn't sell by the boatload or as much as they thought they would.... Anyhow - maybe it just didn't fit with their core business, hearing aids.....which are probably much more profitable and in a less competitive environment.
 
If someone has some insights as why they exited the headphone market, I would love to get some insights beside their own message: post #2

I don't see any inconsistencies with my comments and Phonak's PR release.  I know Phonak is a huge company and sells very expensive and well-regarded hearing aids.  I of course have no way to know how many 232's were sold.  But I remember well how much time they were in development and then tuned and re-tuned with Jude's help I believe.  There was huge anticipation over them and then when the price was released, the air just went  out of the balloon.  Not many reviews surfaced and not many people here purchased them.  I'm sure Phonak was expecting a continuation of the success of the PFE (or else they wouldn't have undertaken the effort)  and when they didn't get it, they decided to focus on their core business with which they had a higher degree of understanding of the market and more experience.  I also wish they had stayed in.  I do think the tremendous jump they tried to make between their first model and the second was too big of a reach, and Phonak was and is used to succeeding, which they knew they could do with their hearing aids.