[eke2k6]

When I envision the Piano Forte, I see it as the awkward teenager/adult who just doesn't fit in with the crowd. Sometimes feels like it wasn't meant to born in this era, but was destined for a time past. So instead of trying to be something it's not, it eschews the world and its paradigms, and unleashes the fabulousness it has been holding back for years when it was trying to conform to the crowd.
 
I'll echo the sentiments of those who have heard the PF before me. It's not a phone for analyzing your music. Instead, I think it's for those who really want to feel what they're listening to. I can't even tell you how many times my eyes have been forced shut and I've had my toes curl when listening to some tracks. 
 
I'm about pack up the two iems to send them along to the next member of the tour, but I'll miss them dearly so I've resolved to make the Piano Forte my first $1K+ purchase when I finish school. All my other phones simply sound inadequate now, but I know I'll readjust to their normalcy..eventually.
 
I'll leave you with a song that I feel embodies the very essence of these IEMs, from one of the greatest performers to ever grace a stage, but died 21 years ago on this very day...Freddie Mercury, ladies and gentlemen:
 

 
 
 
Other tracks for your listening pleasure:
 

 

 
 
 

 
 

 
 
 
 

 

[ianmedium]

You are so right about eighties music with the PF's. Also, the description you gave in your first paragraph sums who I am to a T! Which probably expalins why the PF's mean so much to me!

 

[k3oxkjo]

Quote:

 
I've only heard the JH13 demos, but these and the PF VIII are like apples and oranges. 
 
The JH13 deliver a basically balanced sound with a little bit of added bells and whistles. Their main goal is to impress, imo, and they succeed at it, if you like that kind of sound signature (see the link in my sig for detailed impressions). If I had to choose a name for them, I'd call them "beats for audiophiles".
 
The PF VIIIs, in comparison, are all about serenity and subtlety imo, an intentionally colored attempt to bring you closer to the 'soul of music', and I wouldn't recommend them to anyone who's looking for a sonically accurate reproduction of music. If there's any such thing as earphones for meditation, I'd think the PFs would fit that niche, so if the prospective buyer had an interest in it (or at least an urge to light some joss sticks every now and then , I'd feel more comfortable recommending them to her/him.
 
Don't know if this will help your friend, but it's the best I could come up with during a five minute break at work, lol. 

 
"Beats for audiophiles". What a great line! How long have you waited to lay that one on us

 ?
 
But seriously folks, from my listening to the JH series universals, I would say it's not an apt description. The JH series strikes me as basically a fairly neutral monitoring sound with "bass light" (JH-13), "bass heavy" (JH-16) and adjustable bass (JH-3A). The Beats, on the other hand, have no pretension to neutrality, but are designed to produce a tailored sound to Rock/Rap tastes.
 
I have the FAD 1601's and, come to think of it, I believe it would be more accurate to call them "Beats for audiophiles" (though they sound VERY different). The 1601's are also tailored to produce a particular sound, in this case designed to accentuate the emotion of the music. I actually like the 1601's a lot, I have owned them a long time and haven't been tempted to sell. They are a "guilty pleasure", you can listen for 30 seconds and hear what they do "wrong", but listen longer and their almost unique charms come through. In fact, when you try to EQ these to get rid of the "problems", much of the magic disappears.
 
My AKG 3003 are far more wideband and neutral, and can sound more "beautiful" than the 1601's, but I appreciate the direct emotional response the 1601 can elicit (along with the huge soundstage, in my view almost unique for IEM's).
 
Hmmm... JH Audio has a 20% off sale. Maybe I will buy a JH-3A and find out for real. But I refuse to buy a pair of Beats...

 

[seeteeyou]

.

 

[james444]

Quote:

But seriously folks, ...

 
Well, "Beats for audiophiles" was obviously meant with a wink, but even if we were to talk seriously, I'd basically stand by that description. I feel that the JH13 were first and foremost made to show off and that subtlety hasn't been high on the priority list for them. Besides, the JH13 are anything but bass-light, their bass is definitely a few db north of neutral (even JHA themselves admit that). The UERM I demoed afterwards were much closer to what I'd personally call a fairly neutral monitoring sound.
 
Ian's reply was pretty much spot-on, I think he knows exactly what I mean. Just for the fun of it, let's play "spot the difference"... 

 

 
 
Anyway, back on topic: nice impressions @Eke... and it's time to retract one of my earlier posts:
 
Quote:

Those FADs bring out the poet in every man (except for Eke)

 

 

[eke2k6]

Quote:

 
 
Anyway, back on topic: nice impressions @Eke...

 
Thanks James. They really are great phones, with one caveat...they remind me of romantic cruises.
 
What I mean is that you have to love your music collection for the FADs to take it to another level. Two platonic buddies on a romantic cruise will feel awkward throughout. But, if you manage to trick the person you have a crush on into going on said cruise, then your relationship will go to the next level.
 
I have strange analogies...

 

[zilch0md]

Quote:

 
Thanks James. They really are great phones, with one caveat...they remind me of romantic cruises.
 
What I mean is that you have to love your music collection for the FADs to take it to another level. Two platonic buddies on a romantic cruise will feel awkward throughout. But, if you manage to trick the person you have a crush on into going on said cruise, then your relationship will go to the next level.
 
I have strange analogies...

 
 
Yeah, that was a bit of a reach, but I think I get it:  
 
If you don't love your music, listening to FADs will only make you feel awkward, but if you love your music, the FADs will allow you to love your music even more.
 
Still, we can't be sure the music will ever learn to love you!
 

 

[eke2k6]

Quote:

 
 
 
Still, we can't be sure the music will ever learn to love you!
 

 
Yep, unrequited love hurts the most...

 

[k3oxkjo]

Quote:

 
Well, "Beats for audiophiles" was obviously meant with a wink, but even if we were to talk seriously, I'd basically stand by that description. I feel that the JH13 were first and foremost made to show off and that subtlety hasn't been high on the priority list for them. Besides, the JH13 are anything but bass-light, their bass is definitely a few db north of neutral (even JHA themselves admit that). The UERM I demoed afterwards were much closer to what I'd personally call a fairly neutral monitoring sound.
 
Ian's reply was pretty much spot-on, I think he knows exactly what I mean. Just for the fun of it, let's play "spot the difference"... 

 

 
 

 
Ok, spot the difference. One is the Beats logo, the other the JH Audio logo. Well, I admit, both are rectangular. And?
 
I will say that JH Audio's ADVERTISING is not subtle. They trade on their rock 'n roll background and try to promote a "hip" image. But the products do seem to attempt to some level of neutrality just as the AKG K3003, the Fit Ear, the Ultimate Ears (founded by JH Audio's founder, BTW) and the like do. As far as bass goes, of their three best IEM's (the only ones I have heard), one is pretty much flat in the bass, one has significant boost (but nowhere near some of the bass monsters like the Sennheiser IE-8) and the other variable (BTW, my "bass light" comment was also a wink, a tribute to the Sony R-10 and AKG K-1000, two of the historic reference headphones both of which are said to be available in "bass light" and "bass heavy" versions), so you have a choice here. 
 
Like the Beats (but for good rather than evil, LOL), the FAD's are (as their representatives at the RMAF told me) not designed to be "flat" in any real sense. They are a tailored sound as can be heard in about 30 seconds of listening. They are, however, beautifully tailored for conveying emotion and a kind of beauty, not necessarily the beauty of the direct experience of live music but an idealized version, which I think is a fine thing to do. I really dug listening to their display IEM's at the show and also dig my 1601, which I listened to on the way home from work on the train tonight.
 
I was a fairly early adopter of the 1601 (which I tongue in cheek refer to as a "guilty pleasure") and remember when you (James444) first came to them. I remember you being puzzled at the time, expressing the idea that they were seriously colored and only listenable with EQ. It's great that you came to understand their charm and found a favorite in the FI-BA-SS, which I sadly have never heard but suspect from your descriptions is like a less colored 1601 that retains much of the older designs emotional impact. That strikes me as a fine recipe for success. I think the attempt (that will inevitably fall short in an imperfect world) to design a somewhat neutral IEM such as the afformentioned AKG, Fit Ear, Ultimate Ears and, yes, JH labs is another recipe for potential sucess. I am glad I don't have to choose one, but can own multiple approaches to the reproduction of the music we love.
 
Kevin

 

[james444]

Quote:

Ok, spot the difference. One is the Beats logo, the other the JH Audio logo. Well, I admit, both are rectangular. And?
 
I will say that JH Audio's ADVERTISING is not subtle. They trade on their rock 'n roll background and try to promote a "hip" image. But the products do seem to attempt to some level of neutrality...

 
Well, my point is that the sound of the JH13 demos pretty much reflect their advertising. I won't deny that they "attempt some level of neutrality" (thus the "for audiophiles" part , but I found them to sound more in-your-face than any of the universals (W4, FI-BA-SS, FX700 and EX600) I A/Bed them to. Plus, all of said universals were better in differentiating between a lead singer's voice in the foreground and a delicate guitar accompaniment in the background. They JH13s may be great for rock'n roll, but not all that suited if you're looking for subtlety in your music. To my ears. Ymmv.
 
Quote:

I was a fairly early adopter of the 1601 (which I tongue in cheek refer to as a "guilty pleasure") and remember when you (James444) first came to them. I remember you being puzzled at the time, expressing the idea that they were seriously colored and only listenable with EQ. It's great that you came to understand their charm and found a favorite in the FI-BA-SS, which I sadly have never heard but suspect from your descriptions is like a less colored 1601 that retains much of the older designs emotional impact.

 
Yes, I remember too. Well, not much has changed for me, and I still EQ the 1601 to a flatter reponse when I listen to them. I dearly wished that FAD would make a better balanced implementation of their DDs, because the drivers themselves are strikingly good imo. But to the contrary, they went on to produce the Piano Fortes, which are even more radically colored than the 1601, and which I miserably fail to EQ to a "halfway ordinary" sound signature, lol. That's why I wrote "I wouldn't recommend them to anyone who's looking for a sonically accurate reproduction of music".
 
The FI-BA-SS are a different beast and much more transparent than the 160x. Sadly my loan tour has been halted because of a cable issue, but maybe I can get them to you at some point, I'd love to hear your opinion. Don't get me wrong, my post wasn't meant to discredit the JHs and hype the FADs, more like saying these two have their respective target audiences which don't overlap that much in my book.

 

[keroro]

I browsed through the videos on this thread and they are mostly about vocals(sorry If I'm mistaken), can the piano forte sounds equally good with orchestra?

 

[eke2k6]

Quote:

I browsed through the videos on this thread and they are mostly about vocals(sorry If I'm mistaken), can the piano forte sounds equally good with orchestra?

 
I'll listen to Mozart's violin concerto #4 and Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique a little later and report back.

 

[ianmedium]

I browsed through the videos on this thread and they are mostly about vocals(sorry If I'm mistaken), can the piano forte sounds equally good with orchestra?

They reproduce Bohms 67 live recording of the ring cycle the best way I have heard ( I know, voices as well but also full Orchestration) Likewise, early Mono recordings such as Arturo Toscanini are full of the atmosphere and passion that made them famous.

I think on of my favourites though is Respighi's the birds, Brazilian impressions; fountains of Rome conducted by Dorati on Mercury living presence with the LSO. The PF's really bring out the romance as well as the detail of that album I feel.

Lastly you should check out the DuPre Elgar cello concerto. Once again a forte of the Piano Forte's!!

 

[eke2k6]

Quote:

 
I'll listen to Mozart's violin concerto #4 and Berlioz's Symphonie Fantastique a little later and report back.

 
 
After some listening, I don't think I like the PF for classical music. There's just a certain quality to the sound that is off-putting to me on some pieces, which is probably caused by the resonances, but the sound reminds of a vintage recording. All the details are there, and imaging and soundstaging are  fantastic - it sounds like a concert hall, but I just can't get with the overall tone. That's just my opinion though, it may be the total opposite for you.

 

[zilch0md]

This may be interpreted as sarcasm, but it's not...   To enjoy the PF's you've got to turn off your analytical thinking and just go with the flow.  At least, that's how it was for me.  
 
The more I looked under the covers, so to speak, the more disturbed I became with their coloration.  I found the dc-1601s to be more neutral than the PF VIIIs, but that just made their inaccuracy all the more disturbing because it was easier to imagine where they were deviating from the almighty flat-line frequency response plot.  
 
I preferred the warmer, wackier, PF VIIIs over the dc-1601s because they were so far off the beaten path that I could more easily let go of trying to analyze their inaccuracies.  In other words, if you're going to look at the world through rose-colored glasses, you might as well go for a deeply tinted pair, then lay back and let them do what they do.  Looking at the world through mildly tinted rose colored glasses and wishing that green trees looked greener is an exercise in frustration.  
 
If ever I take the plunge for PFs, I now think I would rather go for the PF IX than the PF VIII, for this very reason.  Don't mess around - bring on the reality warp.
 
I think in time, with the right mind set, you could learn to enjoy classical music on the PFs, but not in the same way as most people enjoy classical music with something like the ATH-AD900 - which are known to be very nice with that genre (for all the traditional reasons - neutral, transparent, analytical).
 
Mike