[Test222]

Thanks for the reply. I don't think I tend to drop my iems but I guess I'm leaning towards the E1000 for now.

I'm sorry, this morning I remembered better. The only problem I had with E2000 was it's crappy cable that I couldn't replace (which is the main reason why I upgraded to E4000). I don't recall any problems with dropping my E2000. I mixed it up with SoundMagic ES18 which I used at the same time and which literally split in two pieces one day.

So E1000 should be fine, aside from the cable which you can't replace. Personally I would never again buy any IEM that does not have replaceable cables, as cable is the thing that fails first.

 

[Edric Li]

Correct me if I am wrong, but I think E2000 and E3000 share the driver but E1000 uses a cheaper / lower level driver. My impression from reviews is that E500 and E1000 are not on the same level as E2000 and E3000. On that ground, E2000 is a better choice. I expect E2000 to be better for orchestral works than E3000 as well, given the gentler tuning.

Not that my opinion matters, but I think E500 and E1000 are better than E2000 and E3000 on a technical level.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fin...ns-and-discussion-thread.613641/post-16667995

 

[Edric Li]

Final Audio E-series IEMs have quite unique bass. Nowadays when you hear about "bass boosted" IEMs and look at the graph, they mean subbass-boosted. And unfortunately that doesn't sound much bassy to me. Mid-bass is more important. Having being used to E4000 (which are more neutral than E5000 from what I heard) everything "not-midbassboosted" sounds anemic to me.

Spot on. Check out my "proof" of why bass-shelves are bad or, in your words, anemic.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/a-proof-of-why-harman-curve-or-any-bass-shelf-is-bad.956995/
This (E-series) type of bass used to be the norm. Check out the classic UE, JH and Westone models. This subbass-boosted bass is becoming the new norm.

Sure, they were definitely more "clear". But because of the lackluster midbass I stopped enjoying half of my music collection (I listen to many genres ranging from classical music to epic orchestral score). I realised that midbass let's you hear that "thump" and IE600 took that away, kinda made the music sound flat. I didn't expect it before the purchase by looking at the graph.

Spot on x2. The opposite of flat that you are describing, achieved by having adequate mid-bass and lower-mids, is called the proximity effect.

On top of that after trying many different IEMs I came to conclusion that the E series have the ultimate shape among universal-shell IEMs. Why? Because it doesn't touch any part of your outer ear, just the ear canal. Which makes them extremely comfortable to wear for the whole day. I could wear something like Blessing 2 Dusk for just 15 minutes before I felt the pain (wide nozzle was fine, weird and bulky shell shape was not). IE600 was quite good comfort-wise. Probably the best among high-end nowadays. I could wear it for 2-3 hours before feeling any discomfort in my concha. But I can use my E4000 for a whole day and it never gets uncomfortable.

Spot on x3. This is especially true on the non-detachable models. The lack of a "stem" allows for endless possibilities when wearing cable-down. The open-back design, the not-touching-my-ear design and the feather-like weight together make a truly immersive experience, as if there is only me and my music, and that the earphones are simply not there. The music experience imo is every bit physical as it is about audio; just ask the people that use wearable bass.

 

[Edric Li]

Is there by chance anyone who owns both E4000 and E5000?

I've been using E4000 and I'm thinking about upgrading to E5000 but I'm not sure if I will like its sound signature. And there is no option for me to demo it in my crappy country.

So I EQ-ed my E4000 to E5000 signature and concluded that I don't like. Now I just need someone with both to use the same EQ on their E4000, A/B it against their E5000 and confirm that E4000 EQ-ed to E5000 indeed sounds like E5000.

E4000 and E5000 use the same driver and have the same shell shape so I guess it should be pretty accurate? If it is accurate, I would dodge a bullet and save a lot of money.

Anyway there are the EQ settings:
https://anonfiles.com/T3c7Y0nbyf/Final_Audio_E4000_to_E5000_PEQ_txt
https://anonfiles.com/Z3ceY4n5y7/Final_Audio_E4000_to_E5000_Wavelet_txt

Looks like you already pulled the trigger on E5000, but here's my take on E4000 vs E5000 anyway...
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fin...scussion-thread.613641/page-675#post-15937049

 

[Test222]

Looks like you already pulled the trigger on E5000, but here's my take on E4000 vs E5000 anyway...
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fin...scussion-thread.613641/page-675#post-15937049

I don't believe that a cable affects sound.

 

[Test222]

@Edric Li
Also, do you have any other comfortable bassy IEM you like, better than E-series? I'm looking for something that would make voices and different instruments more separated. Sometimes with a song where there is a lot of going on, my E4000 sound as it was all "mixed together", inseparable, congested even. It mostly happens during epic score with a lot of instruments.

You said that this type of signature used to be the standard so I bet you know more IEMs that I would like (preferably below 1K). Must be comfortable tho.

 

[o0genesis0o]

Not that my opinion matters, but I think E500 and E1000 are better than E2000 and E3000 on a technical level.
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/fin...ns-and-discussion-thread.613641/post-16667995

@Edric Li
Also, do you have any other comfortable bassy IEM you like, better than E-series? I'm looking for something that would make voices and different instruments more separated. Sometimes with a song where there is a lot of going on, my E4000 sound as it was all "mixed together", inseparable.

So I have been playing with EQ yesterday to see what I can get if I tune E3000 to my target frequency response. I’m genuinely shocked about how resolving the midrange and treble region of E3000 really is. Cutting the mud around 250Hz and push the mid treble (8k, not 4k) and air region (16k) “removes the veil” and enlarge the soundstage significantly. I’m not saying that we can “add” technical performance. It’s always there, just hidden underneath the relaxed tuning.

The bass is surprisingly the weakness of E3000. No matter how I sculpt the bass shelf, either I lose the thump or I have slight congestion (like the stock tuning). It’s unlike E5000 where the bass is very strong but decay faster to not clogging up the frequencies around 250hz and 500hz.

 

[Test222]

@o0genesis0o
I see in your footer than you use both E5000 and Andromedas. How do you compare the two? Is that "top tier soundstage" really something you can clearly hear or is it bull? I'd never buy Andromedas because they look like one of the most uncomfortable IEMs possible, but the praises made me curious.

 

[o0genesis0o]

Finally finish the E3000 review on Head-Fi here. Let me know if my impression matches yours and whether the EQ preset works for you.

I see in your footer than you use both E5000 and Andromedas. How do you compare the two? Is that "top tier soundstage" really something you can clearly hear or is it bull? I'd never buy Andromedas because they look like one of the most uncomfortable IEMs possible, but the praises made me curious.

Well, the thing about IEM soundstage (or more stereo imaging, to be accurate) is that it is a psychoacoustic illusion that depends on your music and your unique ears as well. I don't think IEMs truly differ in terms of the "size" of their stereo image. How they present that image is a different story.

Andromeda does not have the "largest" stage so if that's what you are looking for, you would be very disappointed. What it does very well is how it places sound within that stage. Both E5000 and Andromeda are better than many "well-tuned" IEMs in the sense that they can create a sense of depth: some sounds are closer, some are further away. E5000 also does a decent job of layering similar sound on top of each other, from closer to further away. However, Andromeda is simply better at distinguishing similar sounds, to it layers the stereo image better. Andromeda also reveals the treble (8k and up) more than E5000, so Andromeda can also trick you into thinking some high pitch sound like cymbals "floating" some where around, slightly above your hear. Of course, the king of this kind of presentation, IMHO, is 64 Audio IEMs with TIA drivers.

Noted that with EQ, you can copy most of these tricks. The thing you cannot copy (at least I don't know how to) is the resolution. Cutting bass dry does not help. So if you consider something like Andromeda, it's better to think about its resolution as the selling point rather than stereo imaging.

Since we are in Final forum, I can briefly touch on A4000 and A8000 as well. A4000 is the one with a lot of tuning trick that ends up making the whole stereo image further away from you. A8000 on the other hand constructs a well layered stage purely based on its resolving capability.

 

[dakanao]

You can increase resolution on E5000 by removing the front filter and put cotton in the nozzle (amount to your taste), and with E3000 by removing the backside grill that has little holes with a screwdriver, taking the sticker off and leaving the vent open, making them a full open back.

You do lose a bit of sub-bass extension and impact with the E3000 due to them now being more open, but the whole sound is less resonant.

 

[Edric Li]

@Edric Li
Also, do you have any other comfortable bassy IEM you like, better than E-series? I'm looking for something that would make voices and different instruments more separated. Sometimes with a song where there is a lot of going on, my E4000 sound as it was all "mixed together", inseparable, congested even. It mostly happens during epic score with a lot of instruments.

You said that this type of signature used to be the standard so I bet you know more IEMs that I would like (preferably below 1K). Must be comfortable tho.

They are not going to be bullet-shaped like the E-series. They are going to be UIEM-shaped, for wearing with cables over-the-ear. So if that's what you mean by comfort, E-series is pretty much endgame. I would recommend E500 and E1000. Both are less bassy than E4000, and otherwise sound identical. With the reduced bass, you get better perceived separation but less soundstage depth. If you believe you can't hear the difference in the cables, try E2000 and E3000 too. They have more bass than E500/1000 but less bass than E4000.

You can increase resolution on E5000 by removing the front filter and put cotton in the nozzle (amount to your taste), and with E3000 by removing the backside grill that has little holes with a screwdriver, taking the sticker off and leaving the vent open, making them a full open back.

You do lose a bit of sub-bass extension and impact with the E3000 due to them now being more open, but the whole sound is less resonant.

I am so looking forward to the MAKE4

 

[dakanao]

They are not going to be bullet-shaped like the E-series. They are going to be UIEM-shaped, for wearing with cables over-the-ear. So if that's what you mean by comfort, E-series is pretty much endgame. I would recommend E500 and E1000. Both are less bassy than E4000, and otherwise sound identical. With the reduced bass, you get better perceived separation but less soundstage depth. If you believe you can't hear the difference in the cables, try E2000 and E3000 too. They have more bass than E500/1000 but less bass than E4000.


I am so looking forward to the MAKE4

Have you done some of those mods with the back grill of the e3000 removed?

 

[podnosimyszafe]

Does anybody know what is the difference between AG WHP01K by Final Audio and Final Audio UX3000? AG seems to be Final's sub-brand, so it would make sense to make similar, slightly worse and cheaper model.

But to my surprise, I struggle to find any difference - identical buttons, identical battery life, even the same sound signature according to some measurments available online. The only thing that looks to be different is type of plastic used.

So does anybody has any information, if there is anything different apart from type of plastic? Maybe different ANC software for UX3000? or maybe UX3000 has slightly more durable build or different pads?

 

[o0genesis0o]

Does anybody know what is the difference between AG WHP01K by Final Audio and Final Audio UX3000? AG seems to be Final's sub-brand, so it would make sense to make similar, slightly worse and cheaper model.

But to my surprise, I struggle to find any difference - identical buttons, identical battery life, even the same sound signature according to some measurments available online. The only thing that looks to be different is type of plastic used.

So does anybody has any information, if there is anything different apart from type of plastic? Maybe different ANC software for UX3000? or maybe UX3000 has slightly more durable build or different pads?

Many AG products are "tuned by Final", aren't they? My local Hifi store considers both brands as "final audio". They spoke highly of some TWS from AG, but I did not have a chance to try yet.

 

[o0genesis0o]

You can increase resolution on E5000 by removing the front filter and put cotton in the nozzle (amount to your taste), and with E3000 by removing the backside grill that has little holes with a screwdriver, taking the sticker off and leaving the vent open, making them a full open back.

You do lose a bit of sub-bass extension and impact with the E3000 due to them now being more open, but the whole sound is less resonant.

Very tempted. On one hand, I can mod my favorite IEM, on the other hand, I can ruin it.