A proof of why Harman curve (or any "bass shelf") is bad

[Edric Li]

Therefore, unless you hate midrange, especially lower-mids, where all the important stuff is happening in music of all kind, you should stay away from the Harman curve. QED.

 

[sander99]

Hm, it is not April 1 yet in the USA, is it?

 

[71 dB]

I don't go near Harman curves nor am I a basshead so this doesn't concern me. I am neutral.

 

[redrol]

sound preferences are not objective so..

 

[bigshot]

I think graphics like that are amusing. It's a feeble attempt to render subjective taste in a way that kind of looks scientific. It's about as useful as wine or car analogies. And then the title of the thread refers to it as "proof"...

 

[Bytor123]

Mr Harman had tinnitus and liked fast cars and whisky, so...

 

[bigshot]

"Even my wife thinks the harman curve sounds bad!"

 

[redrol]

oh no, pulling the wife card.. now we are really interneting

 

[gikigill]

Therefore, unless you hate midrange, especially lower-mids, where all the important stuff is happening in music of all kind, you should stay away from the Harman curve. QED.

As a basshead, it would appear as muffled and ill defined sound to me an I'm afraid that's just not the case for my Harman tuned stuff.

Besides when it comes to Personal Audio or even Home Audio, your definition of neutral is unachievable.

 

[ADUHF]

I am neutral.

Is it just my imagination working overtime, or am I sensing a bit of Harman curve humor in that comment?

 

[478423]

As a basshead, I am well aware that my sound tastes are nowhere close to what anyone considers neutral. Honestly, I would be down for more audio research into subgroups that do not have a Harman preference.

Also, it's funny that you think basshead hate mids. I at least do not. I hate the high end of treble not because "I hate neutrality" or what not, but because my ears are sensitive to upper treble and I can get a headache if I listen to high end treble for extended periods of time. It's why for pretty much any headphone that I own that I have to cut the upper treble by a few decibels to not get a headache. If you're wondering what my typical volume for music listening is, it's around 65 db with the loudest parts going 70-75 db .

 

[Edric Li]

Besides when it comes to Personal Audio or even Home Audio, your definition of neutral is unachievable.

Is your closest achievable neural more neutral than my definition of neutral?
My plot of the Harman curve is impossible to achieve either, but can a brother gets his point across?

As a basshead, I am well aware that my sound tastes are nowhere close to what anyone considers neutral. Honestly, I would be down for more audio research into subgroups that do not have a Harman preference.

Also, it's funny that you think basshead hate mids. I at least do not. I hate the high end of treble not because "I hate neutrality" or what not, but because my ears are sensitive to upper treble and I can get a headache if I listen to high end treble for extended periods of time. It's why for pretty much any headphone that I own that I have to cut the upper treble by a few decibels to not get a headache. If you're wondering what my typical volume for music listening is, it's around 65 db with the loudest parts going 70-75 db .

And yet you use TH900??

 

[Edric Li]

I think graphics like that are amusing. It's a feeble attempt to render subjective taste in a way that kind of looks scientific. It's about as useful as wine or car analogies. And then the title of the thread refers to it as "proof"...

The "proof" is just a joke. I thought the QED at the end made that clear.
But now that you mentioned it, I think I was being pretty scientific. Deduction from assumptions is as Newtonian as it gets.

 

[478423]

Oh I nerfed the treble using EQ and did not use the stock earpads. I was hoping that this was a joke because I actually have seen on other places that people unironically think this would be a valid proof to diss bassheads. Especially since few mock trebleheads preferences.

But seriously, there really should be more research into other preferences besides Harman. Like if someone prefers less bass with more treble than neutral, are they less sensitive to upper frequencies? Would they be more sensitive to lower frequencies? Would there be a preference between upper treble and lower treble? Would this preference lead to different musical tastes versus someone that prefers neutral sound signatures or darker sound signatures? I do not have the answers to this, but I would be interested in this. If someone has papers that document this, please share!

Edit: You could also ask if said preferences lead to differences within the outer shape of the ear, the eardrum, the middle ear, the inner ear, or the process of conversion to electrical impulses. For example, do people that prefer higher quantities of bass than is neutral have some ear hair cells that are less sensitive to this? Could it be more of the process of the conversion to electrical signals instead?

This is a lot more productive than just saying that bassheads hate mids. Even assuming that all bassheads hate mids, you can frame this in a more testable way. Could it be that bassheads are the most sensitive to mids and as a result, avoid headphones which have mids as neutral or boosted compared to other frequencies? If this is the case, why? What part of the ear or nerves or other factors could cause a distinct preference towards the lower end that does not translate into mid or upper frequencies?

I’m only adding this because this is the Sound Science subforum. I’m not trying to be mean or ruin fun, but the subforum leans heavily scientific. When a meme is posted, especially one that deliberately uses faulty logic, it makes it rather difficult to make the discussion scientific or informative. Memes tend to invite shallow and unthoughtful feedback (I am looking at a particular site).

 

[Edric Li]

Oh I nerfed the treble using EQ and did not use the stock earpads. I was hoping that this was a joke because I actually have seen on other places that people unironically think this would be a valid proof to diss bassheads. Especially since few mock trebleheads preferences.

But seriously, there really should be more research into other preferences besides Harman. Like if someone prefers less bass with more treble than neutral, are they less sensitive to upper frequencies? Would they be more sensitive to lower frequencies? Would there be a preference between upper treble and lower treble? Would this preference lead to different musical tastes versus someone that prefers neutral sound signatures or darker sound signatures? I do not have the answers to this, but I would be interested in this. If someone has papers that document this, please share!

Edit: You could also ask if said preferences lead to differences within the outer shape of the ear, the eardrum, the middle ear, the inner ear, or the process of conversion to electrical impulses. For example, do people that prefer higher quantities of bass than is neutral have some ear hair cells that are less sensitive to this? Could it be more of the process of the conversion to electrical signals instead?

This is a lot more productive than just saying that bassheads hate mids. Even assuming that all bassheads hate mids, you can frame this in a more testable way. Could it be that bassheads are the most sensitive to mids and as a result, avoid headphones which have mids as neutral or boosted compared to other frequencies? If this is the case, why? What part of the ear or nerves or other factors could cause a distinct preference towards the lower end that does not translate into mid or upper frequencies?

I’m only adding this because this is the Sound Science subforum. I’m not trying to be mean or ruin fun, but the subforum leans heavily scientific. When a meme is posted, especially one that deliberately uses faulty logic, it makes it rather difficult to make the discussion scientific or informative. Memes tend to invite shallow and unthoughtful feedback (I am looking at a particular site).

I'm sorry. Where did I say bassheads hate mids? Do you define basshead = people that are sensitive to treble?

To your point tho, I think the fact that audiophile prefers a slightly warmer and darker sound is well documented by the MFSL/DCC/AP/AF catalogue. In addition to improved imaging, etc, often times an audiophile-oriented remaster is warmer and darker than the original CD pressing.