[Tuneslover]

As I stated in a previous post, I use a FiiO X5ii as a digital storage (MicroSD cards) and transport (using the coaxial out) to my standalone DAC and standalone Headphone AMP. The portability of a DAP is very handy because I can easily move the X5ii amongst my various headphone systems. I have been thinking about replacing the X5ii but I would prefer a device that simply stores and transports the digital signal. I have no need for the device to do the digital to analog conversion, nor do I need it to amplify the signal. Besides a large laptop does such a device exist? What are my fellow Head-fiers using as their source component feeding their table top DACs?

 

[bzippy]

So, I've had only a few chances to sit down with my new X5 so far but my initial reaction is: I'm a little disappointed. Recall that this is intended to replace, and be an upgrade for, my 1st gen X3. First, it's just doesn't sound as different as I expected. Second, it feels a bit cheaper & more flimsy than the X3, which feels more solid to me. At this point I'm starting to better appreciate the 1st X3 as a rather remarkable device that is woefully underrated around here. (imo)

These are just first impressions though. And to be fair I'm stressed & distracted with some health issues in my family, and it has also been a kinda rough weekend for my seasonal allergies. So I reserve the right to take any or all of this back and start over.

Also I did read everything you guys wrote above, and even watched most of the video from that audio conference. Very thought provoking, and even eye opening. Perhaps it's this spirit of blowing up myths keeping it real that I have the balls right now to give the X5 a bad initial review and declare the X3 superior. Lol
(I'm not actually saying that btw)

Edit:
(like, a complete, total recant edit)
After 6 months of living with the X5ii I am claiming my right to completely revise my opinion. I am now declaring a rather deep & enduring love for the X5ii.

As I said I was in a kinda rough head space in April, plus a couple other things happened. First, I had a Questyle Q1PR on loan for about a week over the summer and despite trying my hardest I could hear almost no difference between the two. Same neutral yet engaging balance, dynamics, noiseless -- all of it. I literally couldn't tell them apart (headphones used: HD600 & Focal Clear). After reading universal raves everywhere about the QP1R being far & above the best DAP to be had under $1k, this was shocking to me. I mean, I had full expectation bias in favor of the Q1PR: it was going to sound way better period. The only question would be whether I could justify the big cost difference, and could tolerate the downgrade in UI. But I sent the Questyle back quite happily, though a little confused, tbh. Maybe my hearing just isn't good enough anymore? Oh well. If FiiO is the best quality that I can discern in DAPs then good for me I guess, right? It'll save me a lot of money. (Actually I can still hear significant improvement when using my JDS/Schiit desktop rig.)

Second, I discovered that the cheap impression that I got from my X5ii was really just my X5ii. This used unit I got on ebay was very used, and pretty worn out, despite having no visible wear. The wheel and all buttons were loose & kinda rocky, the center button even being a bit sticky. I had a suspicion that this might not be the norm for these, which was confirmed when bought a second X5ii (a great deal on an old stock open box new unit). With this new unit everything was as it should be: tight, responsive, solid feeling. My faith in FiiO, restored. I am wild about this Titanium color too -- very slick!

Anyway, I am loving my new X5ii and keeping the other one as a backup (for whatever reason).

And I'm not looking forward to the day when this one wears out and I have to replace it with one of these Android-based touch screen things (i.e. a phone that doesn't make calls). I just don't like 'em, but whatever.

 

[castleofargh]

Sure, Sound Science forums will easily be able to ‘prove’ in abx testing that differences can’t be heard between gear, but abx tests often use too short of samples to be meaningful and our brains are simply terrible at quick comparisons, especially in a stress induced abx test. I wouldn’t dismiss abx testing entirely but it isn’t cut and dry regarding human perception. I find for perceiving subtle differences that a long demo of gear before switching for comparisons (around 1 week) is best to adjust to various nuances with a wide range of music that we need to acclimate to. Frankly, I stopped reading the Sound Science forums due to their dogma. From my perspective we listen to music for the experience and not to prove anything to anyone.

Spoiler: off topic of a motherator defending his baby, and just facts in general :

you don't want us to cherry pick, but then maybe you should avoid writing this nonsense?
in the entire Sound Science section you will find maybe 3 guys who will repeatedly and de facto go for the "everything sounds the same" silliness. and you'll find about as many who go for the just as inaccurate "everything sounds different". I along with others have opposed both extremist sides for the obvious reason that they're wrong and that they cannot prove their global views. now it sure is easy to come, make a claim about hearing a difference in an uncontrolled experience, and have many people rejecting that claim on the basis that it's not supported by evidence. but rejecting an empty claim(what I do almost systematically), is completely different from claiming the opposite like how everything sounds the same or other silly generalizations. maybe if you payed a little more attention to the actual points usually being contested, you'd stop thinking the way you do about Sound Science.
I don't mind hating on Sound Science, there are more than enough reasons not to be a fan of that section, or to simply have no reason to be involved in it. audio has many sides to it. me having to play dedicated mall cop for that section is already evidence that there are specific issues. but if your motives for this uncalled criticism are going to be complete BS, I feel like I have the right and a duty to set the record straight.

second point, a test acquires value by how repeatable it is and how well we can isolate the variables being tested. basically how much confidence we can put into it. ABX is a golden opportunity for amateur listening test as it removes many variables. so the results are considered relevant even if only at an anecdotal level as it's usually used here as one test about one dude using one system under specific conditions. so just for that reason, nobody is proving general inaudibility that way. those who do are at best like you and don't understand the methodology involve in that type of tests.
the test starts with a null hypothesis(as many scientific tests will), so the purpose of the test is to try and disprove that hypothesis by finding differences. failing to pass the test is failure to disprove the hypothesis. not proof that the hypothesis is correct. it's a critical point and most people in the Sound Science section know that much and would not as you said "‘prove’ in abx testing that differences can’t be heard between gear". excluding maybe the 3 guys I previously mentioned who have their own views and agenda. but it's a forum section, not a monolithic mind. 3 dudes do not voice the views of everyone else.

third point. your position on how to test for difference is the ultra typical intuitive view. you create the ideal conditions that will make you feel like you notice more differences, and conclude that feeling more differences means the method is more effective. you don't consider the very real possibility that you're making up most of those audible differences you have in mind, by being influenced by non audio cues that your experience didn't bother controlling or removing. and of course memory flaws are also going to be a thing in week long sessions. for decades now, we've had a model involving echoic memory, and new technologies not only support that model, but they have helped figuring out notions of timing and even where in the brain that process seems to be happening. that model of memorizing sound if it's correct, suggests that we sort of keep alive the perceived sounds(thus the echo thing) to allow the collect of a long enough sample of sound for interpretation(which makes sense as music is a change of state over time). various study disagree on the total duration and stuff like that, but the most optimistic study proposes as long as 10seconds I think. and research on how long we can maintain accurate memory of sound, found that we start failing after only a few seconds. there are other research and experiments and I realize that I've already fallen deep enough in the boring off topic abyss, but all that to say that actual facts and actual research have aligned on the same model for how the brain collects, interprets and stores audio information, and everything strongly suggest that short samples and rapid switching are the most accurate way to detect just noticeable differences(JND). which is the only reason why controlled listening protocols insist on doing it that way. we didn't wake up one morning deciding that we would make up a weird way to test audio just to displease audiophiles.
unless you're specifically testing the long term effects of something(good luck with that), rapid switching simply crushes other testing methods in term of detection thresholds and accuracy for audio. that's just how it is. and even for long term effects, a sighted uncontrolled experience wouldn't be the proper way to go about it anyway.
non control is not an alternative way to conclusively test things. it's only good to enjoy music.


and last, "From my perspective we listen to music for the experience and not to prove anything to anyone." what sort of silly either/or position is this? you listen to music, we all do, that's one thing. then we come on a forum arguing a point. that is us trying to convince others. the real choice is to do that without proof, based on gut feelings. or to try and actually demonstrate something(to ourselves or others) by using method and controls to answer some specific questions. I wouldn't go as far as saying that it's choosing between right or wrong, because there are many things we do get right with casual listening, but the chances to misinform others and fool ourselves certainly go way down with a little bit of method.

 

[x RELIC x]

Spoiler: off topic of a motherator defending his baby, and just facts in general :

you don't want us to cherry pick, but then maybe you should avoid writing this nonsense?
in the entire Sound Science section you will find maybe 3 guys who will repeatedly and de facto go for the "everything sounds the same" silliness. and you'll find about as many who go for the just as inaccurate "everything sounds different". I along with others have opposed both extremist sides for the obvious reason that they're wrong and that they cannot prove their global views. now it sure is easy to come, make a claim about hearing a difference in an uncontrolled experience, and have many people rejecting that claim on the basis that it's not supported by evidence. but rejecting an empty claim(what I do almost systematically), is completely different from claiming the opposite like how everything sounds the same or other silly generalizations. maybe if you payed a little more attention to the actual points usually being contested, you'd stop thinking the way you do about Sound Science.
I don't mind hating on Sound Science, there are more than enough reasons not to be a fan of that section, or to simply have no reason to be involved in it. audio has many sides to it. me having to play dedicated mall cop for that section is already evidence that there are specific issues. but if your motives for this uncalled criticism are going to be complete BS, I feel like I have the right and a duty to set the record straight.

second point, a test acquires value by how repeatable it is and how well we can isolate the variables being tested. basically how much confidence we can put into it. ABX is a golden opportunity for amateur listening test as it removes many variables. so the results are considered relevant even if only at an anecdotal level as it's usually used here as one test about one dude using one system under specific conditions. so just for that reason, nobody is proving general inaudibility that way. those who do are at best like you and don't understand the methodology involve in that type of tests.
the test starts with a null hypothesis(as many scientific tests will), so the purpose of the test is to try and disprove that hypothesis by finding differences. failing to pass the test is failure to disprove the hypothesis. not proof that the hypothesis is correct. it's a critical point and most people in the Sound Science section know that much and would not as you said "‘prove’ in abx testing that differences can’t be heard between gear". excluding maybe the 3 guys I previously mentioned who have their own views and agenda. but it's a forum section, not a monolithic mind. 3 dudes do not voice the views of everyone else.

third point. your position on how to test for difference is the ultra typical intuitive view. you create the ideal conditions that will make you feel like you notice more differences, and conclude that feeling more differences means the method is more effective. you don't consider the very real possibility that you're making up most of those audible differences you have in mind, by being influenced by non audio cues that your experience didn't bother controlling or removing. and of course memory flaws are also going to be a thing in week long sessions. for decades now, we've had a model involving echoic memory, and new technologies not only support that model, but they have helped figuring out notions of timing and even where in the brain that process seems to be happening. that model of memorizing sound if it's correct, suggests that we sort of keep alive the perceived sounds(thus the echo thing) to allow the collect of a long enough sample of sound for interpretation(which makes sense as music is a change of state over time). various study disagree on the total duration and stuff like that, but the most optimistic study proposes as long as 10seconds I think. and research on how long we can maintain accurate memory of sound, found that we start failing after only a few seconds. there are other research and experiments and I realize that I've already fallen deep enough in the boring off topic abyss, but all that to say that actual facts and actual research have aligned on the same model for how the brain collects, interprets and stores audio information, and everything strongly suggest that short samples and rapid switching are the most accurate way to detect just noticeable differences(JND). which is the only reason why controlled listening protocols insist on doing it that way. we didn't wake up one morning deciding that we would make up a weird way to test audio just to displease audiophiles.
unless you're specifically testing the long term effects of something(good luck with that), rapid switching simply crushes other testing methods in term of detection thresholds and accuracy for audio. that's just how it is. and even for long term effects, a sighted uncontrolled experience wouldn't be the proper way to go about it anyway.
non control is not an alternative way to conclusively test things. it's only good to enjoy music.


and last, "From my perspective we listen to music for the experience and not to prove anything to anyone." what sort of silly either/or position is this? you listen to music, we all do, that's one thing. then we come on a forum arguing a point. that is us trying to convince others. the real choice is to do that without proof, based on gut feelings. or to try and actually demonstrate something(to ourselves or others) by using method and controls to answer some specific questions. I wouldn't go as far as saying that it's choosing between right or wrong, because there are many things we do get right with casual listening, but the chances to misinform others and fool ourselves certainly go way down with a little bit of method.

Spoiler: Reply in kind

I've taken abx tests and failed in many of them. Indeed, it is eye opening to properly test oneself. Please don't assume that I don't know what the methodology is and what it's for. I am sharing my experience, and that is that there's yet another way to hear subtle differences using a long term audition and then switching to different gear as opposed to quick snippets of sound to try to ascertain differences. This can, and has (for me), failed to produce any perceivable difference in many instances, and proved effective in others. The crux of it is that one must remain objective, and yes I am clearly aware that's exactly why abx tests are used. I've found that when listening to a variety of music over a longer audition (weeks) before I switch it becomes easier to hear certain differences that may have gone unnoticed in a short comparison. (Brain) muscle memory in effect?

It's just another approach to comparisons that I feel should be considered. Our brain takes time to learn patterns, recognize nuances, and remember them. Music is complex and listening to back-to-back comparisons has it's flaws in that we could easily miss nuances if not focused on them. Imagine listening for a difference in bass timbre and not the decay on cymbals, concluding that the cymbals sound the same because one was not properly focused on them in the listening test. Imagine wanting to hear the nuance of space and rendering of string vibrations in a binaural recording but all one can focus on is the cello player breathing through their mouth like he has a terrible mucus filled head cold (this happened to me, Amber Rubarth - Grass Top). These things can easily derail an abx test, and unless someone has the fortitude to repeat the same segments listening for the many different aspects of the presented sound and testing for long periods of time to do so (doubt it), or be able to focus on the multiple complex nuances at once (impossible), then I'm afraid that is where short samples could fail.

If I rattled off 20 numbers in a random order 99.9% of the population would not be able to repeat back the entire initial random pattern on the first attempt, or even the tenth. Apes can, humans can't. We are terrible at these sort of things. Also consider that when taking a test that the mood, health, environment, etc., will all have an effect on the outcome so that's another reason why I would take an abx test as another tool in the toolbox and not as gospel. Just the fact that you seem to feel the need to 'defend' your methods and prove your methodology as 'the one' and seem to want to falsify other options is one more nail in the Sound Science coffin for me. I did acknowledge abx has a place and said I wouldn't dismiss it. I am simply offering more options that anyone reading can take it or leave it.

This is just my point of view I'm sharing and perhaps I could have not been so belligerent toward Sound Science. I will not continue to debate your point of view and I actually have nothing but respect for your usual reasoned approach to both Sound Science and the methods in which you formulate your posts in the forums. However, you won't find me as a 'the text book said so, therefore I must believe everything the textbook tells me' kind of guy.

 

[trivium911]

So, I've had only a few chances to sit down with my new X5 so far but my initial reaction is: I'm a little disappointed. Recall that this is intended to replace, and be an upgrade for, my 1st gen X3. First, it's just doesn't sound as different as I expected. Second, it feels a bit cheaper & more flimsy than the X3, which feels more solid to me. At this point I'm starting to better appreciate the 1st X3 as a rather remarkable device that is woefully underrated around here. (imo)

These are just first impressions though. And to be fair I'm stressed & distracted with some health issues in my family, and it has also been a kinda rough weekend for my seasonal allergies. So I reserve the right to take any or all of this back and start over.

Also I did read everything you guys wrote above, and even watched most of the video from that audio conference. Very thought provoking, and even eye opening. Perhaps it's this spirit of blowing up myths keeping it real that I have the balls right now to give the X5 a bad initial review and declare the X3 superior. Lol
(I'm not actually saying that btw)

i think most that reviewed the x5ii say that its sound is more nuetral and refined than the original X3... Where the X3 had a more fun bass heavy signature. To each their own i guess. I don't think there is anything inherently wrong with the x5ii, it has a lower output impedance than the x5iii which could translate to better sound depending on the headphones, alot of people said it's sound was a side grade compared to the x5iii. I'm just not happy in the new direction that fiio is taking with their players, I'm also not very happy how quickly they drop support of their older flagship models when there are issues that never got fixed. Furthermore they have put zero effort, at least from what I can see in offering replacement batteries. That means every two years you have to buy a new one, it reminds me of the iPod days. Even ipod batteries were very easy to come by on ebay....

 

[Pewterlocks]

As I said previously, it really disappointing that so many companies are pushing out one Dap after another without out fixing issues with older models, as the next models are been pushed quite often released six month to one year apart and the cycle starts again.

I figure that we as a whole are somewhat to blame, because as soon as the next " bright and shiny" dap appears, all is forgotten and round and round it goes.
I am not a wealthy person I cannot afford to keep upgrading especially since the prices seem to be scaling upwards faster then product technology does.

I guess what I really want is a portable device that can hold my 700 gigs of music,great sound, Bluetooth, a FINISHED UI, shelf life of 5-10 years, and a bloody changeable battery that can be bought in North America, yea baby, not asking for much.

 

[trivium911]

As I said previously, it really disappointing that so many companies are pushing out one Dap after another without out fixing issues with older models, as the next models are been pushed quite often released six month to one year apart and the cycle starts again.

I figure that we as a whole are somewhat to blame, because as soon as the next " bright and shiny" dap appears, all is forgotten and round and round it goes.
I am not a wealthy person I cannot afford to keep upgrading especially since the prices seem to be scaling upwards faster then product technology does.

I guess what I really want is a portable device that can hold my 700 gigs of music,great sound, Bluetooth, a FINISHED UI, shelf life of 5-10 years, and a bloody changeable battery that can be bought in North America, yea baby, not asking for much.

Fair enough, it's obviously a money grab.They should take a lesson from Nintendo, they have their handhelds for years and they seem to be doing just fine. Still waiting for my alliexpress battery to show up I'll post the results later. On a side note the random docking issue that was impeding my listening... I fixed by cleaning the usb charge port with some alcohol. Which, by the way is inherently fragile.

 

[Tuneslover]

I'm getting very interested in the M9 as an eventual replacement for my aging X5ii. The only thing holding me back is FiiO's lack of future support as well as the historical complaint with FiiO not fully resolving firmware issues.

 

[bms44974]

I'm getting very interested in the M9 as an eventual replacement for my aging X5ii. The only thing holding me back is FiiO's lack of future support as well as the historical complaint with FiiO not fully resolving firmware issues.

I gave my X5ii to my dad in February and got the M9 to replace it. My only complaint so far is that I had to get a larger card for the M9 as there is only one slot (compared with 2 in the X5ii). The improvement in sound stage with the M9 was worth the price of the new card. The M9 interface is fine for me. I don't stream and only use Bluetooth occasionally to transmit to my Jabra 85h headphones. With WiFi and Bluetooth normally off, the responsiveness of the M9 is fine. It's also handy that microSD cards don't have to be formatted in the M9. It read my library without a hitch, but I normally use folder search as my music is structured by artist -> album -> track.

Cheers... Brian

 

[kaosnews]

I'm getting very interested in the M9 as an eventual replacement for my aging X5ii. The only thing holding me back is FiiO's lack of future support as well as the historical complaint with FiiO not fully resolving firmware issues.

What problems do you have with the X5II? I use it daily with a lot of different type of files (FLAC, SACD ISOs, DSD128, MP3s) and it plays them fine. No lock ups etc. I have sold my X5III today because I don't use streaming services and bluetooth etc. - the X5II is also a lot user friendly if you just play files. But really curious what problems people have with the X5II.

 

[JaZZ]

Problem number one: Half of the time the equalizer gets disabled when the sampling rate changes from 44.1 to 48 kHz and vice-versa – an old problem that has never been solved by FiiO, because they didn't test it. Unfortunately I didn't notice it earlier (nearly all files on it were 44.1 kHz then), until it was too late and FiiO cancelled the support.

Problem number two: The scroll wheel is about to completely lose control – unlike with my X5 or X3 II.

I'm still using it in my bedroom system (with Hugo₂ and Campfire Atlas), the only question is how long it is possible under these circumstances.

 

[bms44974]

I had no problems with the X5ii, it worked fine. I used the X5ii and M9 (tour unit) side-by-side for about a week. The only advantages that the M9 had for me were 1) the M9 had no problems reading microSD cards formatted on another device (not a big deal, but a difference), and 2) the better sound stage and instrument separation of the M9, particularly when using balanced output (not available on X5ii). I have tried other devices for which balanced and SE output were indistinguishable. However, on the M9, I found balanced output to be better even at much lower volumes than SE. YMMV. Cheers... Brian

 

[Tuneslover]

What problems do you have with the X5II? I use it daily with a lot of different type of files (FLAC, SACD ISOs, DSD128, MP3s) and it plays them fine. No lock ups etc. I have sold my X5III today because I don't use streaming services and bluetooth etc. - the X5II is also a lot user friendly if you just play files. But really curious what problems people have with the X5II.

Well if you're really interested read this thread from the beginning and you'll have a better understanding.

My biggest gripe (which is in my post) is how FiiO completely abandons supporting a product that is only a couple of years old with firmware bugs that they choose to not bother resolving. That in my opinion is totally irresponsible.

The other gripes that I have is that the player randomly freezes or locks up. It takes quite the gyrations to get it to work properly again, I need to take out both MicroSD cards, hold the power button for a while till it finally reboots, reinsert the cards, then I have to go into settings and re-update the media library. Also, the random play...I almost exclusively use my X5ii in random play mode so that I can be surprised by the 8,000 or so songs I have on the cards. Well, their random mode isn't very random at all. It's incredible how often I hear so many tunes over and over again. I know that there are at least 40-50% of the songs on the cards that have NEVER played. With 8,000 songs (which is a pretty modest amount of songs compared to what others have said they have) you would think it would take quite a long while before you hear the same song twice, but alas not so with my X5ii.

These complaints were brought to FiiO's attention and they initially said that they were working to resolve these (and other) issues, however they did very little to support the X5ii and were more interested in rolling out new DAP's which led to first, ignoring and then abandoning support concerns (much of which were due to their premature firmware releases).

Now having said all that, I have learned to live with these shortcomings...like as if I had a choice. The X5ii wasn't exactly a cheap device when it came out but for what it offered I had no issue slapping down the cash to buy one. I wasn't expecting in return to get a quirky device that could be this frustrating along with frustrating support. It makes me think twice before deciding to buy another product from FiiO. I'm happy for you that you have NO ISSUES (lucky bugger) with your X5ii.

 

[Pewterlocks]

Well if you're really interested read this thread from the beginning and you'll have a better understanding.

My biggest gripe (which is in my post) is how FiiO completely abandons supporting a product that is only a couple of years old with firmware bugs that they choose to not bother resolving. That in my opinion is totally irresponsible.

The other gripes that I have is that the player randomly freezes or locks up. It takes quite the gyrations to get it to work properly again, I need to take out both MicroSD cards, hold the power button for a while till it finally reboots, reinsert the cards, then I have to go into settings and re-update the media library. Also, the random play...I almost exclusively use my X5ii in random play mode so that I can be surprised by the 8,000 or so songs I have on the cards. Well, their random mode isn't very random at all. It's incredible how often I hear so many tunes over and over again. I know that there are at least 40-50% of the songs on the cards that have NEVER played. With 8,000 songs (which is a pretty modest amount of songs compared to what others have said they have) you would think it would take quite a long while before you hear the same song twice, but alas not so with my X5ii.

These complaints were brought to FiiO's attention and they initially said that they were working to resolve these (and other) issues, however they did very little to support the X5ii and were more interested in rolling out new DAP's which led to first, ignoring and then abandoning support concerns (much of which were due to their premature firmware releases).

Now having said all that, I have learned to live with these shortcomings...like as if I had a choice. The X5ii wasn't exactly a cheap device when it came out but for what it offered I had no issue slapping down the cash to buy one. I wasn't expecting in return to get a quirky device that could be this frustrating along with frustrating support. It makes me think twice before deciding to buy another product from FiiO. I'm happy for you that you have NO ISSUES (lucky bugger) with your X5ii.

I am so used to hearing pretty much the same 3-4 HUNDRED songs over and over again with the Fiio's broken randomizer software, that I just skip thru to the next song. I have had the same song back to back on a regular basis, with the amount of music I put on this device the odds of back to back should be astronomical. I have 24,000 songs on my dap. Yes the X5 2 is built like a brick and I still like it's rugged look. I mean come on while the prices continue to rise,the support for the most part sucks ( all manufacturers) not just Fiio..

For a less then mainstream hobby you would think that they would be better with customer service as opposed to what we get and the excuses that come with it. Why should I have to pay to return a crapped out device within the warranty period and then wait 1 to 2 months to get it back. How about the dead battery issue, trying to get on is vertically impossible. Blah,blah, blah

As a niche company, they might want to be more aware of there client base, if we decide not to continue this hobby and just say screw it and go back to using the cells. Where would it leave them? Dammit I want to be pampered

 

[trivium911]

I am so used to hearing pretty much the same 3-4 HUNDRED songs over and over again with the Fiio's broken randomizer software, that I just skip thru to the next song. I have had the same song back to back on a regular basis, with the amount of music I put on this device the odds of back to back should be astronomical. I have 24,000 songs on my dap. Yes the X5 2 is built like a brick and I still like it's rugged look. I mean come on while the prices continue to rise,the support for the most part sucks ( all manufacturers) not just Fiio..

For a less then mainstream hobby you would think that they would be better with customer service as opposed to what we get and the excuses that come with it. Why should I have to pay to return a crapped out device within the warranty period and then wait 1 to 2 months to get it back. How about the dead battery issue, trying to get on is vertically impossible. Blah,blah, blah

As a niche company, they might want to be more aware of there client base, if we decide not to continue this hobby and just say screw it and go back to using the cells. Where would it leave them? Dammit I want to be pampered

Looks like someone tried to get the source code in order to update the firmware.

http://fiio.me/forum.php?mod=viewthread&tid=42613&extra=&page=2&mobile=yes

Not sure what Game Fiio is playing but I don't like it.