[Chris J]

I think I am understanding things.....

There are cheaper headphone that can give you lots of bass but aren't made for studio monitoring.  I.e. the AT 770PRO, and btw, the new ear pad may have something to do with mudiness.

By playing with power amp I've gotten the ATs to sound pretty good...kinda like the sub in my car.  Thats what I was going after.  Its a huge unweildly bass sound and I could see using an EQ to tame the power but why do I need an amp with such low impedance headphones.  They require less power than my beats solo HD. 

I could see possibly using the F17 to sculpt the sound so the super lows on my mixes made for my truck don't blow my cans.  (i.e. mad mike's bass mix, and more popularly, and musical, the new little Boosie...bass heads check it out!!!  I hope this is what you mean by bass head because if you walk around listening to the the tuning CDs for subwoofers man there is something wrong with you).

But still I don't get the amp feature or why I'd need it. 

I have come around to these headphones.....they can cheaply give me the feel of rolling in my 1200watts of sub while walking the dog, thats all I want, but I want some clarity too.0

The problems came in that the impedance is SOOOO low that you have to keep outputs down or it muddies stuff up.  Could be the new ear pads someone mentioned too.   But taming the volume, and using power amp along, and using my beats cable with mic for the phone I've gotten these cans to sound all right.

I still don't see why I need an amp.

And I still don't see why I shouldn't spend same money as AT plus AMP, buy the pioneer DJ200s which are COMFORTABLE, give you bass head response, and give you studio monitoring clarity.   If you aren't afraid of taking studio cans out on a walk or for a trip (or snowboarding!!!!) why not just get the pioneers forget all this amp crap.

I still don't get why I need an amp for these headphone.  Is there an awesome EQ on the e17 that beats what the full poweramp can do? 

Sorry for the posts I won't reply till my E17 has had its 12 hours and I can mass with it. 

I do see the possible value of the AT770pros but compared to the pioneer DJ2000 the Reloop HI Ends (3Hz??????? wow) 

If you really just want a Dac for your computer there is a great one that is just a USB stick with a line out.  Me?  I'd get a full on audio interface for a few bucks more.

But buying an E17 just to pair with LOW IMPEDENCE headphone I don't get it! 

I can blow these headphones with my android.  Is that the idea, I turn down the amp on the Fiio and bump volume on my droid? 

RIght now I'm getting great great bassie sound out of bass heavy music.  Pretty bad sound for regular pop. 

I come from hip hop....little Boosie's new album, thats bass head to me...do people really just listen to music with no mids and HIs and therefore I'm talking way out of my depth?

I've never thought much about CANs...I think I'm happy I found this site....more stuff to learn about

-Pablo Rotter
   - producer, musician, computer tech,

Sorry man, but I can't quite figure out if you are trolling?

Long story, short version, if you have low impedance cans they may need more current than the source you are currently using can provide.
I use an amp with my HP notebook because the headphone jack on the HP sounds terrible, terrible, terrible. Muddy, foggy, veiled, doesn't output a lot of power either.
Plugging my E17 into the USB port on the HP notebook sounds better in every possible way.
I can reasonably assume that the E17 has a better DAC and better sounding headphone amp than the HP notebook.
YMMV
And that's the short version.

 

[ippudo]

Quote:

Is the E17 a bright sounding signature/neutral/dark?  thanks

I can't compare it to many other DACs, but next to my previous Behringer UCA-222 it's definitely on the bright side.

 

[bowei006]

How does this compare to the iBasso D Zero?

Headfonia has an E17 review with d zero

 

[kalbee]

I'd classify it a bit brighter sounding.
Though they do measure nice and flat.
So let me rephrase that: brighter than the DAC in a iPod (warmer).

 

[Achmedisdead]

Quote:

I'd classify it a bit brighter sounding.
Though they do measure nice and flat.
So let me rephrase that: brighter than the DAC in a iPod (warmer).

 
I thought warmer and brighter were the opposite? 

 

[kalbee]

Let me rephrase that: it is said that the iPod's DAC (or amp?) is on the warmer side.

 

[Achmedisdead]

Quote:

Let me rephrase that: it is said that the iPod's DAC (or amp?) is on the warmer side.

I would agree with that, for the Wolfson-equipped models.

 

[pabloaugustus]

Quote:

"Welcome to Head-Fi! Sorry about your wallet"
 
To be honest, studio monitoring headphones are all in the $150-$250 range. M50's and DT770 Pro's and varouis Sony's are extremely popular. We here use headphones that would otherwise not be popularly used in studios. Why buy $1K headphones when you can buy studio monitors and be like all the other producers with their big studio monitors. But as we can tell, a lot of production still sucks in how it sounds.
 
Besides Beats, you don't see headphones in videos a lot obviously. But one that really shows them is the "We are the World 25 for Haiti" video. It was produced by Quincy Jones who endorses the Q701's and many are using DT770 Pro's or Sony's or Fostex's and AKG's.
 
If you tracks will have an ill effect on any speaker system that will blow ears without an EQ, then either get different speakers if those are the problems or produce it a bit differently. Like you said, you can polish a turd all you want. But we would love it if the actual finalized track worked without EQ because many times, EQ won't help it as much if everything is congested and what not.
 
An amp for headphones at your range or easy driving ones isn't recommended unless you know what you are doing. Why put slotted and cross drilled disc brakes with ceramic pads on a toyota Camry? Because some want perfection or better audio. However this relates back to if you can hear it and if it is justifiable.

 
Well thats my point...I understanding buying 300 ohm $!000 cans and getting a portable amp.  I'm a studio producer composer musician not a bass head and you seem to agree with me
that an amp isn't needed for low ohm headphones.
 
So what do I need to know bout what I'm doing to pair an E17 with AT-PRO770s? Obviously I can blow these cans to heck so I think I'd want to focus on turning things down and if the E17s amp has a "sweet" coloration that along with software (powerAmp) EQ I can use to make a better sound then just an Android and low Ohm Headphones.  Plus I can access that bass range with a lot of control.   I can do that. 
 
Is that what you mean by "know what you are doing"?
 
Thanks for the introduction, I've only been exposed to headphones used for miced performers (I.e. HD 280s) and high end open back reference style headphones. 
 
But I've got subs in my truck and when I walk the dog I want that thump.  I don't want to get ripped on but beats best product IMHO is the HD Pro...its a great lightweight
headphone lots of bass.
 
But clearly more bass equals bigger drivers so I've got these AT-PRO770s and will see if I get it when I plug the E17 in. 
 
Are these theories similar to and in line with that of car stereo design where you want more amplification than needed so levels don't need to get pushed?  
 
 
What would be one of the nicest pair of cans I could match with this E17 for purely listening?  LIke pumping 808s, etc.   I see you guys rate phones and is that purely on a listening level
or on an accurate reproduction.
 
Basically I want cans that act like my truck.....give me a real world view on how enthusiasts treat the music I make. 
 
I also need accurate cans for breaks in the studio. 
 
Now what would be cool is an amp paired with a headphone that could give you basshead style listening when plugged in and same cans be plugged into the DAW output and sound accurate.
 
Lots of thoughts blah blah
 
Thanks for helping me....I'm so busy redesigning the studio and I'm learning all this headphone stuff....and I know I'm gonna wanna buy the best shizzle thats what bugs me!!!
 
Thanks agaain so much, I'm grateful of your time,
 
-Pablo

 

[pabloaugustus]

I tried it.  The E17 died after about 30 minutes.  It allowed me to have loud controlled bass from my AT770s.
 
The portable amp concept was hard...I put phone in back amp in front....but what if I got a call?  Can anything be put in place of the 3.5mm cable that connect the Fiio to your
devices' output.
 
I set gain to 0, treble -2, bass +6 got volume around 30 it was banging hard and then it just died.

 

[jasonb]

It just died? Is the battery charged?
Quote:

I tried it.  The E17 died after about 30 minutes.  It allowed me to have loud controlled bass from my AT770s.
 
The portable amp concept was hard...I put phone in back amp in front....but what if I got a call?  Can anything be put in place of the 3.5mm cable that connect the Fiio to your
devices' output.
 
I set gain to 0, treble -2, bass +6 got volume around 30 it was banging hard and then it just died.

 

[pabloaugustus]

My E17 just broke...I think I posted it somewhere else on here sorry.  I put gain at zero bass at 8 treble -2 linked droid razor/M went for a walk.  My AT770s sounded really good. 
 
I'm not sure what kind of output droid gives you but I expected louder based on ohms of that ATs.   I had a great time was subbb wooofing out to lil boosie then when I got home
 
it died.  Screen response good it just won't pass the aux signal through.  Gonna go to page and troubleshoot.
 
 
I also wanted to respond to the comment that most studio cans cost between x-y$.   Well there are two kinds of studio cans.  Super closed back that you give to all the musicians (SH HD280).
 
But engineers often want an open or semi open back super high quality headphone for detailed listening, not bass bumping, just accuracy.  There are many approaching and exceeding $1000 in price range. 
 
The price of an expensive set of headphones must either be due to:
 
a) exceptional engineering resulting in "accurate" response
b) exception engineering resulting in an awesome sonic experience.  
c) seeing how much chumps will pay!  This is the criminal part, their needs to be regulation in this marketplace.
 
Theres overlap but studio cans, especially for monitoring overlap with the highest end stuff.
 
And another huge irony!  Behrydynamic (I can never spell) makes cans for the studio that don't sound very good or have a high failure rate, and are cheap.  But their consumer headphones are more accurate for monitoring and you can get more bump.  In fact I think the DT770s are horrible as monitoring headphones, while their consumer model is great.  Weird?  
 
(I did research a bit of this, especially the Behrydynamic part....I think they've lost their bearings)

 

[bowei006]

Quote:

My E17 just broke...I think I posted it somewhere else on here sorry.  I put gain at zero bass at 8 treble -2 linked droid razor/M went for a walk.  My AT770s sounded really good. 
 
I'm not sure what kind of output droid gives you but I expected louder based on ohms of that ATs.   I had a great time was subbb wooofing out to lil boosie then when I got home
 
it died.  Screen response good it just won't pass the aux signal through.  Gonna go to page and troubleshoot.
 
 
I also wanted to respond to the comment that most studio cans cost between x-y$.   Well there are two kinds of studio cans.  Super closed back that you give to all the musicians (SH HD280).
 
But engineers often want an open or semi open back super high quality headphone for detailed listening, not bass bumping, just accuracy.  There are many approaching and exceeding $1000 in price range. 
 
The price of an expensive set of headphones must either be due to:
 
a) exceptional engineering resulting in "accurate" response
b) exception engineering resulting in an awesome sonic experience.  
c) seeing how much chumps will pay!  This is the criminal part, their needs to be regulation in this marketplace.
 
Theres overlap but studio cans, especially for monitoring overlap with the highest end stuff.
 
And another huge irony!  Behrydynamic (I can never spell) makes cans for the studio that don't sound very good or have a high failure rate, and are cheap.  But their consumer headphones are more accurate for monitoring and you can get more bump.  In fact I think the DT770s are horrible as monitoring headphones, while their consumer model is great.  Weird?  
 
(I did research a bit of this, especially the Behrydynamic part....I think they've lost their bearings)

Their studio cans in my opinion sound better than their consumer ones.
 
Monitoring? They aren't that good for sound producers but artists?They do well.
 
The only $1000 headphones are  the HD 700/HD800 and Audeze and Fostex's and a few others.I have never seen one in an engineers lab.

 

[asdfghjkzxcvbnm]

Is it better to use 0 Gain and a high volume or 6db Gain and less volume?

 

[bowei006]

Is it better to use 0 Gain and a high volume or 6db Gain and less volume?

Up to you. 0 gain allows for more steps to control volume

 

[pabloaugustus]

Quote:

you don't disable the DAC you just connect to it through an analog connection (vise digital) - this obviously bypasses the DAC.

 
I know I'm new here I too am searching for an "obvious" answer not included in the manual. This device and entire class of devices is very mysterious to some of us
who may be quite expert in audio or computers but these little amps with built in DACs are slightly confusing as to who and what they are for and what the signal chain is for.\
 
It would not be unreasonable to think that the DAC may be included in the signal chain to the output through the amp, let me plug in a SPDIF source (you don't have spdif output on your nextgen android straight from japan?) and process the signal with the DAC before being amplified.
 
Your answer makes it seem like a stupid question, but I don't think it is.