[Kunlun]

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I haven't tested customs, but have plenty of hybrids, BAs, and Dynamics...  They can be tuned to create a similar bass response.  Also, to say that the BA isn't able to produce enough air pressure is really off.  I don't see how it can't.  If we do measurements, we can get a BA that can push out as much volume (dB) as a dynamic can.  dB is actually a derivative of Pascals (unit of pressure).  If a BA can offer the same volume as a dynamic can, it offers the same amount of pressure. 

One major difference is the venting of the shell. A vented-shell BA (F.A.D. is an example of a company doing this) can have a different bass energy and moving air feel than a typical closed-shell BA iem at the same dB for a given low frequency. If there were no difference, then why vent the shell? Think about it. I can demonstrate the difference with my variable vent MG6Pro and people will be able to do the same when Dale upgrades the adjustable bass vent system on the AS-1b and AS-2b.

 

[tinyman392]

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Im pretty sure BA has a natural weakness in bass

 
I still stand by the idea that tuning is what will make the difference.  I've heard BAs have absolutely amazing bass.
 
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I think the farthest we'll agree is that they can be tuned to sound similarly, but we'll disagree in that there's a difference in sensation.
 
You're right, I misworded my last post, of course they both can reach the same decibel levels, therefore ear pressurization!
 
In my experience there's something else besides decibels that can't be replicated by BA drivers; a moving diaphragm air sucks in and spits that air directly into your ear canal and that makes the bass feel more like its coming from something like a sub woofer in a way that a BA driver can never achieve.  Some head-fi'er wrote on the mg6pro (uses a 13mm dynamic) thread that a bass line hit so hard that it tickled his ear drum.  I haven't quite gotten that sensation cuz my m5s aren't as bass-powerful, but I can easily see where he got that.  I'm really convinced that if I could blind test A/B a BA-based IEM and a DD-based IEM, if the sound signature was otherwise the same, 10 times out of 10, I would be able to tell which type of driver the IEM was using.
None of this is meant to be hostile, by the way- just a healthy debate to lead to greater understanding! 

 
I guess we'll have to agree to disagree EG, you stick to your belief, I'll do mine

 

[tinyman392]

Quote:

One major difference is the venting of the shell. A vented-shell BA (F.A.D. is an example of a company doing this) can have a different bass energy and moving air feel than a typical closed-shell BA iem at the same dB for a given low frequency. If there were no difference, then why vent the shell? Think about it. I can demonstrate the difference with my variable vent MG6Pro and people will be able to do the same when Dale upgrades the adjustable bass vent system on the AS-1b and AS-2b.

 
If you vent it, it'll change the FR response as well, which is detectable in the FR graph (we are back to dB -> pressure).  I never said there was no difference between a vented BA and a non-vented BA (same goes for dynamic).  And I'll agree that's how a lot of adjustable bass systems work. 

 

[Cassadian]

Okay boys and girls.  This is a discussion for another time and place.  We could go on forever, but we'd never get the issue settled.  
 
So, excited for the AS-2!!!

 

[Inks]

Tinyman is right on this one,

Both move plenty of air, if you add a vent it's to increase the bass response. If two IEMs have the same bass response and one has a vent added, the one with the added vent will have its bass response boosted (more air movement =more bass, simple). There is nothing mystical here, a professional audiologist will tell you decibels are decibels. BAs also move plenty of air (air movement is the mechanism to dBs in these regions) but in general they are already per-tuned for a tighter response from Knowles and Sonion. Yet Klipsch made their X10 move more air than certain dynamics, then again I don't see the point unless you're a basshead. And thats without a vent, heck it moves more air than vented FAD IEMs.

In general dynamics have more bass which means more air movement, but if anything I'll label it as weakness since there is a lack of control compared to BAs (though it also has its offenders). If you are a bass head, sure go for the dynamic, but you are compromising accuracy to the source.

 

[dogears]

'Compromising accuracy' doesn't equate to 'wrong' however Sony MDR-7550 got it so right - to my ears at least.

 

[Xymordos]

I thought BA's sound aren't affected by housing, or else every single custom will sound really different.

 

[cn11]

So I'm now using Monster standard single flange silicone tips, to great effect. More open soundstage, and treble extension/detail compared to the other two best tips I'd been using until now. It's not a subtle difference. The Monster tips are really helping with the initial dark character I heard. That, and running them out of my O2 amp and Headstage DAC cable at work has them truly shining. The treble takes on this nice tactile quality, with more black space, with the O2 amp. I suppose that 15mm transducer likes a little more control...  

 

[dnullify]

Which begs the question, how many people are using this amped or unamped?
 
 
 
Also, has anyone with the 1.2 revision seen any improvement past 120+hrs of burn in?

 

[tinyman392]

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I thought BA's sound aren't affected by housing, or else every single custom will sound really different.

 
There is a way to properly vent/port a BA.  There is also a way to make it so that the BA itself is closed (thusly a housing change won't do anything to the BA).
Quote:

So I'm now using Monster standard single flange silicone tips, to great effect. More open soundstage, and treble extension/detail compared to the other two best tips I'd been using until now. It's not a subtle difference. The Monster tips are really helping with the initial dark character I heard. That, and running them out of my O2 amp and Headstage DAC cable at work has them truly shining. The treble takes on this nice tactile quality, with more black space, with the O2 amp. I suppose that 15mm transducer likes a little more control...  

 
Monster tips are great with the ASG-1.  They keep falling off of mine though (when I had them)
 
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Which begs the question, how many people are using this amped or unamped?
 
 
 
Also, has anyone with the 1.2 revision seen any improvement past 120+hrs of burn in?

 
I am (and will be) going unamped (although through my E1, they did get a nice improvement).

 

[eke2k6]

Quote:

So I'm now using Monster standard single flange silicone tips, to great effect. More open soundstage, and treble extension/detail compared to the other two best tips I'd been using until now. It's not a subtle difference. The Monster tips are really helping with the initial dark character I heard. That, and running them out of my O2 amp and Headstage DAC cable at work has them truly shining. The treble takes on this nice tactile quality, with more black space, with the O2 amp. I suppose that 15mm transducer likes a little more control...  

 
I noticed the same thing. My Fiio E10 takes them to another level of control and refinement.
 
cn11, try this EQ out: 2000 Hz : +1.5 dB. 4000 Hz : +2.0 dB. 5000 Hz : +2.0 dB. 8000 Hz : +2.0 dB. 12000 Hz : +5.0 dB 16000 Hz : +5.5 dB.. 
 
You better let me know what you think. I dug through 30 pages to find it again 

 

[cn11]

Tried out that combination, and definitely helps the top end, but I think it exacerbates the slight upper midrange spike that's been noted before (at least for my ears, and I'll admit I'm quite easily annoyed with midrange/treble harshness). My EQ setting was already pretty close to yours from 8K up through 16K, where I had the 16K up to about +5db. I just like to leave the midrange alone I suppose....
 
And thanks for digging that up!  

 

[dnullify]

Sorry to sound repetitive, but i feel like i read something about the ASG-2's release timeframe but i can't find it again.
 
IIRC "later this year". safe to assume that means aug-oct?
 
Does anyone know whether the upgrade from asg-1 to asg-2 will be an indefinite option, or only for a few months after the asg-2's release?

 

[eke2k6]

Tried out that combination, and definitely helps the top end, but I think it exacerbates the slight upper midrange spike that's been noted before (at least for my ears, and I'll admit I'm quite easily annoyed with midrange/treble harshness). My EQ setting was already pretty close to yours from 8K up through 16K, where I had the 16K up to about +5db. I just like to leave the midrange alone I suppose....
 
And thanks for digging that up!  

 
I just tried yours. I like it. I guess I'll rotate depending on my mood.
 
 
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Sorry to sound repetitive, but i feel like i read something about the ASG-2's release timeframe but i can't find it again.
 
IIRC "later this year". safe to assume that means aug-oct?
 
Does anyone know whether the upgrade from asg-1 to asg-2 will be an indefinite option, or only for a few months after the asg-2's release?

 
 
I think it was mentioned that Dale is waiting on the BA manufacturer to produce a decent amount of stock before accepeting ASG-2 orders. How long that takes depends on the manufacturer.

 

[kenman345]

I imagine Dale wants to make money, and the upgrade from ASG-1's to ASG-2's may likely be an ongoing thing, but we don't know yet.
 
The timeframe for the ASG-2's is whenever Aurisonics has fulfilled many orders of the AS-2's and have the buying power/market to get the BA drivers in a large supply, and also the time it takes for those to be manufactured. It would seem that these are the only inhibiting factors, as Dale has said that the delay of the ASG-2's is because of the need to make sure their is enough supply of the BA drivers to fill AS-2 orders which is their main focus for the product. The ASG-2's will be attracting a large amount of buyers and they don't want to release a product they can't fill orders for, that's a pretty reasonable reason to not release a product.
 
August or October? Who knows, it could be December for all we know.
Quote:

Sorry to sound repetitive, but i feel like i read something about the ASG-2's release timeframe but i can't find it again.
 
IIRC "later this year". safe to assume that means aug-oct?
 
Does anyone know whether the upgrade from asg-1 to asg-2 will be an indefinite option, or only for a few months after the asg-2's release?