[vwinter]

Quote:

 
Sounds in general aren't tuned for soundstage...  There are specific albums out there that are used for that, but it's actually quite a rarity nowadays.  Most soundstage you'll hear with a pair of headphones is artificially generated (not always a bad thing).  Separation and imaging is a different story though

 
Not mastered/processed/tuned to test soundstage but definitely to satisfy the composer's/creator's sonic vision as confirmed through their reproduction system.
 
Do you mean artificially generated by the headphones or in the production process?
I'd say it's definitely a bit from column A and a bit from column B.

 

[tinyman392]

Quote:

 
Not mastered/processed/tuned to test soundstage but definitely to satisfy the composer's/creator's sonic vision as confirmed through their reproduction system.
 
Do you mean artificially generated by the headphones or in the production process?
I'd say it's definitely a bit from column A and a bit from column B.

 
Artificially generated by the headphones...  Separation and imaging are generally built into the recording through the use of dynamics and timbre.  Actual sound stage is actually rarely ever done purposely. 

 

[vwinter]

Quote:

 
Artificially generated by the headphones...  Separation and imaging are generally built into the recording through the use of dynamics and timbre.  Actual sound stage is actually rarely ever done purposely. 

 
I just can't believe that to be true. As someone who has worked creating art, I find it hard to believe that someone would have the ability to shape their artwork on an additional facet or level and just completely ignore it for any reason that is not financial, temporal, or deliberate.

 

[Kunlun]

Quote:

 
Artificially generated by the headphones...  Separation and imaging are generally built into the recording through the use of dynamics and timbre.  Actual sound stage is actually rarely ever done purposely. 

 
Quote:

 
I just can't believe that to be true. As someone who has worked creating art, I find it hard to believe that someone would have the ability to shape their artwork on an additional facet or level and just completely ignore it for any reason that is not financial, temporal, or deliberate.

Tinyman seems unaware of the use of the Haas effect to build soundstage into a recording as well as tune it for an earphone. It actually doesn't make sense to say that imagining would be built into a recording but not soundstage as the two are related. In fact, the guy who engineered the Monster line of iems told me that the vast majority of what we think of as soundstage comes from the recording. Most discussions of an earphones' soundstage seemed a bit nonsensical to him for that reason.
 
I'm reminded of the guy who's well known for reviews who just takes whatever earphone is his favorite and gives it the magical ability to *gasp* change soundstages for each recording when in fact a $20 set of earbuds can do the same thing to some extent--because it's the recording as well as the earphone that contributes. I'm not claiming that different earphones will have no difference in soundstage, mind you, just that a failure to look the fact that recordings are playing a big part in soundstage will lead to exaggerated, sometimes wildly exaggerated, claims for an earphone's soundstage.

 

[kenman345]

Quote:

Tinyman seems unaware of the use of the Haas effect to build soundstage into a recording as well as tune it for an earphone. It actually doesn't make sense to say that imagining would be built into a recording but not soundstage as the two are related. In fact, the guy who engineered the Monster line of iems told me that the vast majority of what we think of as soundstage comes from the recording. Most discussions of an earphones' soundstage seemed a bit nonsensical to him for that reason.
 
I'm reminded of the guy who's well known for reviews who just takes whatever earphone is his favorite and gives it the magical ability to *gasp* change soundstages for each recording when in fact a $20 set of earbuds can do the same thing to some extent--because it's the recording as well as the earphone that contributes. I'm not claiming that different earphones will have no difference in soundstage, mind you, just that a failure to look the fact that recordings are playing a big part in soundstage will lead to exaggerated, sometimes wildly exaggerated, claims for an earphone's soundstage.

I remember talking to Dale shortly after first receiving my AS-2's about a year ago and one of the first things he asked me were how do I like the 3D imaging (and some other things). To me, 3D imaging is part of what I would think about when talking about the soundstage of any IEM or Headphone. I think if you were to agree with me that it's a combination of both the IEM's and the source/recording then it wouldn't be too far a stretch to assume Dale was proud of some work he did fine tuning them to get the most out of them. This means that Aurisonics as well as many other companies take time to tune their headphones or IEM's taking everything audible into account as best they can, which logically makes sense considering the prices they charge and the time they take to develop a new product.

 

[tinyman392]

Please note that I'm not saying that there exist no recordings with soundstage, they certainly exist. 
 
The vast majority of the music I listen to doesn't have a true sound stage.  It has an instrument x1 distance relative from my "head".  Then another x2 distance, then x3, onto xn (where n is the number of instruments).  But all this does is create layering...  Instrument 1 is behind instrument 2 which is behind 3, etc...  This isn't soundstage, this is instruments layered and imaged...  Essentially, I hear a bunch of instruments, all doing their own thing.  There is a lot of empty space in between the instruments...  That isn't filled with sound.  Or, only one instrument can take the place of one area at a time...  This is imaging and layering, not sound stage IMO.
 
Sound stage incorporates this, but more.  It allows each individual instrument to interact with one another.  The spaces in between the instruments can be heard properly and interact with one another.  That second part is extremely important to create a real sound stage that isn't just imaging and layering.  Sound stage is a hell lot more than just location, it's more about interaction.
 
That said, soundstage, IMO, implies imaging and layering.  Imaging and layering doesn't imply soundstage...  It's a 1 way road.
 
Therefore, I sparsely talk about sound stage, I find that it becomes rare in newer albums and songs.  I will talk about imaging and layering if the headphone does it effectively (in the case of the ASG-1; 1.0/1.1,1.2,1.3; they all were able to reproduce this beautifully). 

 

[vwinter]

^^ I would argue that soundstage is more about how sounds interact with a recorded or virtual space as presented by the headphone in combination with the extent of its ability to produce faithful stereo images within that space, which may or may not appear to extend beyond the location of the speaker.

Maybe I'm missing something but unless you mean sound from one instrument bouncing off of another and/or it's player, or sound from two nearby images blending more than from relatively distant images, I don't really see how instruments interact with eachother...

 

[tinyman392]

Quote:

^^ I would argue that soundstage is more about how sounds interact with a recorded or virtual space as presented by the headphone in combination with the extent of its ability to produce faithful stereo images within that space, which may or may not appear to extend beyond the location of the speaker.

Maybe I'm missing something but unless you mean sound from one instrument bouncing off of another and/or it's player, or sound from two nearby images blending more than from relatively distant images, I don't really see how instruments interact with eachother...

 
It's really hard to explain.  Many recordings I hear, I'll single out the drum set in this instance...  The drum set is composed to many instruments (obviously).  However, at times I hear that the sounds that come out of the drum set eminate from from the same area, but at the same time they don't.  The instruments really sound too separated from one another...  Like each instrument is a separate stream individually, but together, they don't sound like they would be from the same instrument, but still come from the same location.  In actuality, you'd hear some sort of interference from each individual instrument of the drum set, for some reason, it (the interference) is not there.
 
Other times, I hear the instrument at a distance, it's playing it's tune, in between it and myself would be another instrument...  Both of these are separated from one another.  Let's say instrument 1 and 2, I1 and I2 respectively, are positioned such that it goes I1 - I2 - ME.  Between ME and I2, I should be able to hear both I1 and I2, but instead, I hear empty space with no sound in it (rather than I1 and I2 traveling through that space).  I can position the instrument, but it doesn't sound like it's coming from there.  It's a weird feeling that's really difficult to explain. 
 
All of this has layering, and imaging; I can hear the individual layers as well as even place them somewhere.  It's not a true stage.  I'm not in a room with all the instruments.  Rather, Each instrument is in its own separate room that is placed wherever I would hear that instrument.  I, myself, would be in a room that contains each of these separate rooms hearing all the sounds from each separate room through some vortex where the sound itself doesn't need to travel through the air between its room and mine.  It's a real odd explanation, I can't describe it perfectly myself. 

 

[anoxy]

and then the shrooms wear off and i realize i'm sitting on the toilet with a pair of iems jammed in my ears...

 

[Theogenes]

and then the shrooms wear off and i realize i'm sitting on the toilet with a pair of iems jammed in my ears...

Heh, you WISH those were IEMs...

 

[jaysins]

Woooo. I just recently lost my ASG-1's though while moving. Time to tear the house apart. 
 
https://www.facebook.com/pages/Aurisonics/209300975753348?hc_location=timeline

 

[vwinter]

Tinyman seems unaware of the use of the Haas effect to build soundstage into a recording as well as tune it for an earphone. It actually doesn't make sense to say that imagining would be built into a recording but not soundstage as the two are related. In fact, the guy who engineered the Monster line of iems told me that the vast majority of what we think of as soundstage comes from the recording. Most discussions of an earphones' soundstage seemed a bit nonsensical to him for that reason.

I agree with this. Whether or not a headphone can convincingly reproduce it from recording is more of a variable. Some do it better than other while some might exaggerate it or compress it.

I can't find it but someone on head-fi once made an interesting comment about the importance of matching drivers in the ability of headphone to create clearer images and more accurate soundstage reproduction. And that makes a lot of sense to me.


@tinyman
I understand what you're trying to say. I feel that might be impacted by how something is recorded, assuming we are talking about recording sound in a space. But I can't really say without hearing the same thing.

 

[audionewbi]

anyone has a picture of the ASG-2 stealth edition? I have seen the 3-D rendering but not the actual real-life photo. I just want to know if the extra 100 dollar is worth it or not considering how they both are identical in terms of sonic feature. 

 

[Idsynchrono_24]

Quote:

anyone has a picture of the ASG-2 stealth edition? I have seen the 3-D rendering but not the actual real-life photo. I just want to know if the extra 100 dollar worth it or not considering how they both are identical in terms of sonic feature. 

 

 

 

 
Upgrade is more than I was expecting... Hmmmm.. Not sure what to do now as I really want that Flat-4 Kuro :l 

 

[tinyman392]

anyone has a picture of the ASG-2 stealth edition? I have seen the 3-D rendering but not the actual real-life photo. I just want to know if the extra 100 dollar worth it or not considering how they both are identical in terms of sonic feature. 

That's the one picture I forgot to take when I went to see Dale this past week. Sorry