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Fastest Dynamic Drivers that can match Electrostatic Drivers?

Jan 30, 2009 at 9:59 AM Post #31 of 121
Quote:

Originally Posted by John Willett /img/forum/go_quote.gif
I would dispute this comment.

The speed of movement on a dynamic diaphragm depends on the power of the magnet, the stiffness of the surround and the weight of the diaphragm and voice-coil.

Powerful magnets with light diaphragms and voice-coils will be faster than heavy diaphragms / voice-coils and small magnets.

Most Sennheiser headphones use voice-coils made from aluminium ribbon to make them light and responsive - and the magnets are neodymium.

I'm not saying they are the fastest, but they are certainly *not* slow.


Having said all this; no dynamic can ever be as fast and as responsive as an electrostatic - in the same way that a dynamic microphone can never be as fast and responsive as a condenser microphone.


I have heard that the new HD 800 comes close to the electrostatic sound (due to large diameter voice-coil, large magnets and ring radiator). But we will have to wait and see the truth of this when people get a proper chance to listen and compare.

I hope this helps.

John Willett
(Technical Support - Sennheiser UK)



I believe the slow reputation comes from the Sennheisers house sound which is rather laidback and smooth with slight hump in the lower midrange and upperbass, creating a rather untight and "slow" sound, while there is nothing wrong in the driver speed. This is most noticeable in HD650, and HD595 also shows this though latter mostly comes from its lacking upper midrange and treble.

SA5000 is incredibly fast and detailed. And it is very tight sounding too so it does also sound very fast, faster than any Grado I have heard.
 
Jan 30, 2009 at 10:44 AM Post #32 of 121
Quote:

Originally Posted by MaloS /img/forum/go_quote.gif
It is rather stupid to have a disargeement about a technical aspect. Not exactly a matter of opinion here - transient responce on electrostatic headphones is superior to dynamics.

ArmAndHammer:
think of it like this: how fast does a driver settle after an impulse is sent to it? Slower drivers will introduce more distortion because they will oscilate more widely than the signal requires - faster drivers technically can follow the signal more faithfully. That's all... (and yes technically you want the fastest, but there are other issues at hand which make people choose not the fastest headphone).


This is the perfect and correct answer.

If you really want to know how fast a driver is - is to put a fast transient through it and measure how it reacts.

There is not only how fast it starts, there is also how fast it stops - and no dynamic can ever come close to an electrostatic.
 
Jan 30, 2009 at 12:40 PM Post #33 of 121
Quote:

Originally Posted by John Willett /img/forum/go_quote.gif
This is the perfect and correct answer.

If you really want to know how fast a driver is - is to put a fast transient through it and measure how it reacts.

There is not only how fast it starts, there is also how fast it stops - and no dynamic can ever come close to an electrostatic.


Don't orthodynamics come close to electrostatic in terms of speed?
 
Jan 30, 2009 at 1:08 PM Post #34 of 121
Quote:

Originally Posted by John Willett /img/forum/go_quote.gif
There is not only how fast it starts, there is also how fast it stops - and no dynamic can ever come close to an electrostatic.


But remember when listening to music, ex. cymbals... how would you know if the original sound should have a long shimmering decay or a short bsssht sound. Some cans tend to cut it short... some do it right then some add an unnaturally long decay. This is where we don't know whether there is a signal telling the drivers to do that decay or whether it is overhang. Frequency response and other factors play a role in this, not just driver speed. This is hugely part of how people define speed... by sonics alone instead of measurement.

Again though, if we are only talking about measured speed, i don't believe any dynamics can beat stats.
 
Jan 30, 2009 at 6:47 PM Post #36 of 121
From a listening perspective I tend to notice the effects of speed when trying to focus on bass notes and their volume when they are alone or complemented by other instruments/noise.

As an example with my ER-4p or HD25s if I listen to a jazz song with a bass solo or the bass plays by itself it tends to be louder and as soon as the other instruments come in the bass becomes softer and harder to focus on. With any electrostatic headphone I listen to this never happens. The bass always seems to remain separate and hold its own levels. I could be wrong but I imagine the armature and dynamic drivers just aren't able to keep up with the song.

As others have stated I'm sure there are dynamics that are fast enough even if they don't equal the speed of an electrostatic headphone. It might not matter in the end.
 
Jan 31, 2009 at 2:16 AM Post #37 of 121
ITT: people compare subjective impressions of an ill-defined concept then wonder why they disagree.
 
Jan 31, 2009 at 3:51 AM Post #38 of 121
Quote:

Originally Posted by b0dhi /img/forum/go_quote.gif
ITT: people compare subjective impressions of an ill-defined concept then wonder why they disagree.


Bullseye!
 
Feb 1, 2009 at 12:44 AM Post #40 of 121
out of curiosity, what are the impedance of these fast dynamic drivers?

i remember one manufacturer that had options for their drivers saying their highest impedance driver = minimum mass driver
 
Feb 1, 2009 at 1:34 AM Post #41 of 121
I consider the the drivers of my Etymotic ER4's pretty darn fast.
 
Feb 1, 2009 at 1:57 AM Post #43 of 121
Quote:

Originally Posted by donunus /img/forum/go_quote.gif
But remember when listening to music, ex. cymbals... how would you know if the original sound should have a long shimmering decay or a short bsssht sound. Some cans tend to cut it short... some do it right then some add an unnaturally long decay. This is where we don't know whether there is a signal telling the drivers to do that decay or whether it is overhang. Frequency response and other factors play a role in this, not just driver speed. This is hugely part of how people define speed... by sonics alone instead of measurement.

Again though, if we are only talking about measured speed, i don't believe any dynamics can beat stats.


You are reading it wrong. The long decay of the cymbal should be in the recording. If the headie is infinitely fast, then the driver will follow the signal shape precisely and you will get the exact proper decay of the cymbal (unless the recording sucks balls or the headie just can't respond to the little details - in which case you will get something else and it is hard to tell what it is).
 
Feb 1, 2009 at 8:16 AM Post #44 of 121
Quote:

Originally Posted by DoomzDayz /img/forum/go_quote.gif
out of curiosity, what are the impedance of these fast dynamic drivers?


AKG K1000 = 120 ohm
 
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