Fastest Dynamic Drivers that can match Electrostatic Drivers?

[donunus]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaloS /img/forum/go_quote.gif You are reading it wrong. The long decay of the cymbal should be in the recording. If the headie is infinitely fast, then the driver will follow the signal shape precisely and you will get the exact proper decay of the cymbal (unless the recording sucks balls or the headie just can't respond to the little details - in which case you will get something else and it is hard to tell what it is).

yup, thats what i meant... But if it isnt in the recording and the cans creates its own decay then thats an anomaly is what I'm saying.

 

[Beagle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by troymadison /img/forum/go_quote.gif As fast as Stax: DT770, DT880,

Uh, no..
Quote:

Originally Posted by troymadison /img/forum/go_quote.gif Slower than Stax: HD650, HD580, DX1000, KH-K1000

Yes

Fast = no bass and/or too much upper mids

 

[MaloS]

Quote:

Originally Posted by donunus /img/forum/go_quote.gif yup, thats what i meant... But if it isnt in the recording and the cans creates its own decay then thats an anomaly is what I'm saying.

Cans with fast transient will not suffer from that issue per say (at least not as a consequence of the transient speed).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beagle /img/forum/go_quote.gif ...

Did you read ANYTHING that was said here?

 

[Duggeh]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Beagle /img/forum/go_quote.gif Uh, no.. Yes Fast = no bass and/or too much upper mids

You're mistaking upper midrange emphasis, which is mistaken by most people for detail, for speed.

 

[eruditass]

is speed and clarity/detail the same? here is my brief impressions of dt48's:
Quote:

Originally Posted by DoomzDayz /img/forum/go_quote.gif their 'detail extraction' was really really weird, it's like individual instrument/sound source had been put through dynamic range compression and everything quiet was really really clear and audible at the same time as everything else. very weird.

my stax did not have that kind of detail, but it is hooked up to my secondary and not main speaker amp.

 

[Beagle]

Quote:

Originally Posted by MaloS /img/forum/go_quote.gif Did you read ANYTHING that was said here?

Yeah, I did. What's your point?

 

[AmanGeorge]

Etys are crazy fast indeed. My SA5000 and K701 are also very fast. HD650s were not fast, but I don't think they intended to be. Slowness was half the reason I sold the DT880s.

 

[lucky]

I think it would help if we used a common definition of speed.

 

[kool bubba ice]

Quote:

Originally Posted by DoomzDayz /img/forum/go_quote.gif is speed and clarity/detail the same? here is my brief impressions of dt48's: my stax did not have that kind of detail, but it is hooked up to my secondary and not main speaker amp.

Yes, they sound weird, albeit, no treble emphasis or treble spike on any frequency, at least to my ears..They really are that detailed, the people who claim other wise, never heard them for a serious amount..Mumbles in movies are now coherent and understandable. I take that due to the 48s impressive ability to resolve complex passages,detail, clarity, and fast transients..

What amp were you using?

 

[Catharsis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by kool bubba ice /img/forum/go_quote.gif 1000/48 SA5000

Okay Mr. microscopic lightspeed - you know that I just have to ask.

Where would you place the DT880 in your ranking for speed relative to the others?

Be honest - don't need to make me happy.

 

[Catharsis]

Double Post - sorry.

 

[Catharsis]

Quote:

Originally Posted by catscratch /img/forum/go_quote.gif Dynamics cannot even come close to the speed of electrostatics by definition. Some dynamics fake sounding very fast by shoving the treble way forward, but in terms of actual speed, not even the Qualia 010, which is the fastest dynamic around by miles, can compare to electrostats. The question though isn't of being the fastest, but of being fast enough, and in that regard, it depends a lot on your music. If you listen to smooth jazz then I really doubt speed matters all that much, nor will the difference in speed be as readily apparent as when you listen to death metal, or to full-size orchestral music, or extremely complex electronica like Shpongle. You really have to stress a driver in order for its true abilities to become apparent, and when you do this, you will very quickly see (most) dynamics falling behind the music, while electrostats just take everything you shove at them and ask for more. You pay for that speed with less driver excursion, but then you can't have it all, not even at the top of the food chain. In headphones, anyway. If you want a fast dynamic, get the Qualia 010. The K1000 is pretty fast too, and to be honest, a balanced HD650 is pretty damn fast too, at least much faster than it is in a single-ended rig. On the other hand, when it's underdriven it's one of the slowest headphones around. The TakeT piezo driver does have an amazing combination of speed and impact, but the headphone still needs some work before it's ready for prime time (at least a dedicated amp a-la-Stax that can drive it right). Balanced armatures also have a good combination of speed and impact, but they fail at treble extension, which hurts their ability to replicate transients.

What kind of music would you recommend for testing driver speed? Not complex electronica?

 

[VoLTaG3]

Quote:

Originally Posted by Catharsis /img/forum/go_quote.gif What kind of music would you recommend for testing driver speed? Not complex electronica?

I would guess the best music to test driver speed would be Drum N' Bass.

 

[brat]

Interesting thread.
I think the speed is the most underrated quality of a speaker/headphone. There are tons of discussions about linearity, dynamic range, impact, soundstage, instrument separation, etc.
I'll never forget when after listening of a spectacular pair of Dynaudio speakers in a Hi-Fi store the owner has switched the whole system to a pair of DIY TLs with somewhat Jordan drivers. And suddenly the band playing entered the room! I was astounded! The TLs were lacking bass, the highs were severely rolled off but they were FAST! And the music was ALIVE and PRESENT. And then I've realised the importance of the fastness. That's why it's the major quality of a heapdhone for me.

 

[Hirsch]

I think some people are underestimating just how fast and detailed a good dynamic headphone can be. The fastest and most detailed headphone I've heard to date is the Qualia 010. Electrostatics are in second place, with the Omega II having a slight edge over the HE90 in pure speed, but losing out in overall presentation. I'd put the R10 at #4 in terms of sheer speed, but its presentation moves it past the Qualia in terms of sheer listenability to me (there's a lot more to a headphone than speed). In terms of listening preference, I'd have to rank them R10>= HE90 > Omega II > Qualia 010, which is pretty much the opposite of my speed and detail rankings. I'd also note that none of these headphones lacks detail, or would be considered "slow". But, to date, fastest and most detailed headphone that I've heard has been dynamic. In theory that should not be...but theories are not always correct.