Jan 30, 2009 at 12:42 AM Post #16 of 121
Quote:

Originally Posted by troymadison /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Fastest: K1000
Faster than Stax: K701, K601, K501, K500, SA5000
As fast as Stax: DT770, DT880, D2000, D5000, QP55x, QP250, ESP950, SR225, MDR-F1
Slower than Stax: HD650, HD580, DX1000, KH-K1000



Ughhh...Stax is fastest by definition (ESP950 is electrostatic, does not count).
Everything else is slower, but some do come reasonably close.
 
Jan 30, 2009 at 12:42 AM Post #17 of 121
It kills me that people look at the price of the current Stax and just assume that stats are expensive. I paid $50 less for my SR-Gamma than I paid for my DT880. An energizer and a vintage integrated amp from a thrift store brings the price to a little more than the DT880, but the DT880 needs an amp too.

In fact, I'd say that all of the headphones mentioned on this thread need pretty good amplification to sound fast.
 
Jan 30, 2009 at 12:47 AM Post #18 of 121
I doubt that there are any dynamic (moving coil) headphones that are technically as fast as a good electrostatic headphones. Not even the K1000.
 
Jan 30, 2009 at 12:56 AM Post #19 of 121
Quote:

Originally Posted by troymadison /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Fastest: K1000
Faster than Stax: K701, K601, K501, K500, SA5000
As fast as Stax: DT770, DT880, D2000, D5000, QP55x, QP250, ESP950, SR225, MDR-F1
Slower than Stax: HD650, HD580, DX1000, KH-K1000



I've got a K500, a DT770, and a QP55x. And an SR-5, SR-X III, and an SR-Lambda.

I can tell you for sure that the K500, DT770, and QP55x are not as fast as even the SR-5.

My A/250 might be near the SR-5.
 
Jan 30, 2009 at 1:32 AM Post #21 of 121
Ok...what does it mean to be fast and what does fast sound like? Is there any reason to ever want a slow headphone? Or can a fast headphone be slow when needed/wanted as well as be fast? I am totally lost here. I guess I need to go read some definitions.

***Ok, just read the definition at the top of the page and it pretty much means nothing to me. Can someone explain in English please? This seems like an interesting discussion if I only knew what you guys were talking about...lol
 
Jan 30, 2009 at 1:39 AM Post #22 of 121
I think technically staxes will react to the signal faster but because of its tonality, it could be perceived that it is slower than some leaner sounding dynamic cans.
 
Jan 30, 2009 at 1:49 AM Post #23 of 121
Quote:

Originally Posted by troymadison /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Eh, I guess we disagree


It is rather stupid to have a disargeement about a technical aspect. Not exactly a matter of opinion here - transient responce on electrostatic headphones is superior to dynamics.

ArmAndHammer:
think of it like this: how fast does a driver settle after an impulse is sent to it? Slower drivers will introduce more distortion because they will oscilate more widely than the signal requires - faster drivers technically can follow the signal more faithfully. That's all... (and yes technically you want the fastest, but there are other issues at hand which make people choose not the fastest headphone).
 
Jan 30, 2009 at 2:44 AM Post #25 of 121
You are all correct. read my post (#22) Theres technically faster drivers and sonically faster which has to do with a combination of driver speed and tonality. Grados for example probably aren't really that fast. Its the sonic signature that makes them seem fast. Senns are probably even faster than grados but just seems slower to some people because of their diffuse field response. I hear senns to be faster than grados though. But don't mind me, I'm special
tongue_smile.gif
 
Jan 30, 2009 at 3:42 AM Post #26 of 121
I would agree with Donuts post above, I think people misuse the word quite a bit. Because all the headphones listed on here so far are also headphones that have huge treble spikes- which may make them detailed, bringing out things in music we don't hear otherwise. but im not sure this means that their drivers are physically fast.

I don't know if the HD650 is fast or not, but I would guess that the AKG K240 Sextett is a very fast headphone because of it's ability to articulate complex passages with ease.
 
Jan 30, 2009 at 3:51 AM Post #27 of 121
Quote:

Originally Posted by Faust2D /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Well DT880 is a fast headphone. Its FR was actually modeled after ET-1000 and tailored to have very fast transient response. It is not as fast as stats but is still one of the faster affordable dynamic headphones. I like mine a lot
biggrin.gif



That applies to the original flat backed 1980s DT880 which was quite nice, the current model is in both of its outer designs, to my ears, significantly inferior.

Quote:

Originally Posted by troymadison /img/forum/go_quote.gif
Fastest: K1000
Faster than Stax: K701, K601, K501, K500, SA5000
As fast as Stax: DT770, DT880, D2000, D5000, QP55x, QP250, ESP950, SR225, MDR-F1
Slower than Stax: HD650, HD580, DX1000, KH-K1000



I could not fail to disagree with you less. For example, even if the K701 was able to compete with regards to speed in the way you suggest, which I flatly would say no to, its tonality and accuracy are miles off by comparison to even the 2020.
 
Jan 30, 2009 at 8:43 AM Post #29 of 121
Dynamics cannot even come close to the speed of electrostatics by definition. Some dynamics fake sounding very fast by shoving the treble way forward, but in terms of actual speed, not even the Qualia 010, which is the fastest dynamic around by miles, can compare to electrostats.

The question though isn't of being the fastest, but of being fast enough, and in that regard, it depends a lot on your music. If you listen to smooth jazz then I really doubt speed matters all that much, nor will the difference in speed be as readily apparent as when you listen to death metal, or to full-size orchestral music, or extremely complex electronica like Shpongle. You really have to stress a driver in order for its true abilities to become apparent, and when you do this, you will very quickly see (most) dynamics falling behind the music, while electrostats just take everything you shove at them and ask for more.

You pay for that speed with less driver excursion, but then you can't have it all, not even at the top of the food chain. In headphones, anyway.

If you want a fast dynamic, get the Qualia 010. The K1000 is pretty fast too, and to be honest, a balanced HD650 is pretty damn fast too, at least much faster than it is in a single-ended rig. On the other hand, when it's underdriven it's one of the slowest headphones around.

The TakeT piezo driver does have an amazing combination of speed and impact, but the headphone still needs some work before it's ready for prime time (at least a dedicated amp a-la-Stax that can drive it right).

Balanced armatures also have a good combination of speed and impact, but they fail at treble extension, which hurts their ability to replicate transients.
 

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