[wadec22]

To me, the D9200 have something really close to a neutral sound. Not really dark, not really bright. I really love that bass linearity - the extension is almost planar like. The focal clear graph is the most telling for me, tonality wise. The clear is the closest thing to a perfectly neutral headphone, save for that roll-off in the sub-bass. The D9200 largely fixes that, with just a bit more energy in the upper mids/low treble.

I still wouldn't call them sharp though, unless you're hyper sensitive to treble.

The D9200 is still my favorite closed back headphone at the moment, but I have to say, the Z7M2 definitely beats it at being, well, closed back. It isolates way more - almost as much as some IEMS, and leaks out substantially less noise. I don't have any comfort issues with the D9200, but the Z7M2 are basically giant cushions for your head. Like, I could probably fall asleep on my side with them and be more comfortable than my usual pillow. I like them a lot sound-wise too, but the treble just seems tame compared to the energy and excitement for my tastes.

You might actually like those @wadec22, the Z7M2 seems to measure pretty similar to the D7200 graphs I've seen. What I consider subdued treble might be that neutral slightly dark sound you like.

I am pretty treble sensitive. I couldn't handle the HD800 even with different pads, severe EQ and official SDR mod.

I've been through about 40 headphones to come back to the 7200 for the 2nd time. This signature is my favorite. Super flat, especially with different pads. Slightly warm and very clean measurements in the treble. I can understand some not thinking the 9200 is sharp, just looking at your measurements though, I can tell it would bother me. i'm VERY grateful for you taking the time to post it. Saves me from falling back down the rabbit hole!

 

[Napilopez]

I am pretty treble sensitive. I couldn't handle the HD800 even with different pads, severe EQ and official SDR mod.

I've been through about 40 headphones to come back to the 7200 for the 2nd time. This signature is my favorite. Super flat, especially with different pads. Slightly warm and very clean measurements in the treble. I can understand some not thinking the 9200 is sharp, just looking at your measurements though, I can tell it would bother me. i'm VERY grateful for you taking the time to post it. Saves me from falling back down the rabbit hole!

Glad I could help! Certainly, there are some tracks that the D9200 are not forgiving of. The 8K bump is probably the trickiest bit - though I want to confirm that's where I hear that treble spike I've previously mentioned. Not sure how much the ears can be trusted at frequencies much higher either.

Check out the Z7M2 if you can =]

 

[jmills8]

i'm sorry, i'm not following. that seems like a huge spend for next to no gain. The 9200 headband/suspension/pads are not wildly improved and IMO a step backward from the pads and band i'm already using. perfectly happy Denon user as is.

Yehaaw

 

[zolkis]

My MiniDSP Ears came in earlier this week, and I've been playing around with it enough that I feel fairly confident about the measurements.
[...]
Hope this is useful! Again, please take with a grain of salt because I'm new to this, but it's pretty reflective of what I hear. Also very much open to any advice to make my measurements better/more useful.

Nice! Appreciated including the Focal Clear.
I use an UMIK-1 with my own coupler that was calibrated to match the HD650 and various Stax measurements from innerfidelity using advice from the other site(s).

I have slight doubts about the high frequencies, at least subjectively the D9200 felt to be more linear there. Also, I expected the bass to be more extended, based on listening. But I know for sure this is also related to the (IMHO) overstuffed ear pads and is also likely to be related to the earpads-Ears coupling.

To be honest, I find the only real issue with the 7200 to be some low-level midrange ringing.

I am happy to report that I managed to fix that completely. In addition to the pad mods, it also required replacing the cups damping material with a wool felt pad of certain make/thickness/density. There is not a trace of midrange ringing left in the spectrogram. Subjectively it also has larger sound stage than the original. A slightly thinner wool felt pad sounds even better, at the price of very slight midrange ringing left (but much less than originally).









Even though the spectrogram would suggest too much bass, it sounds linear, clear, no bass masking, but it feels having the full bass extension indeed. Very nice, punchy, clean sound and large stage. The TH900 (both stock and modded) sounds and measures more bass-heavy and more V-shaped.

I will test this against the D9200 at the next occasion (@Maxx134: I have not yet purchased the D9200, as this D7200 kept up very well even in the previous modding iteration).

For comparison, here is the stock D7200 spectrogram:



One can see the similarity to the D9200 in the sense that the midrange gets too much weight. Also the treble is more disconnected.

 

[Napilopez]

Nice! Appreciated including the Focal Clear.
I use an UMIK-1 with my own coupler that was calibrated to match the HD650 and various Stax measurements from innerfidelity using advice from the other site(s).

I have slight doubts about the high frequencies, at least subjectively the D9200 felt to be more linear there. Also, I expected the bass to be more extended, based on listening. But I know for sure this is also related to the (IMHO) overstuffed ear pads and is also likely to be related to the earpads-Ears coupling.

Thanks! I'd still say it measures pretty extended - keep in mind that my graph starts at 10hz, not 20. It's basically flat all the way down to 24hz and only then drops off a couple of DB; in the RAW it stays above 84db calibration down to 20.

That said, I might try Tyll's rubber band trick and see how it affects the extension down there, although I didn't find repositioning to have a huge effect already. I do wonder if the screws on the side of the Ears affect seal.

 

[gb21011971]

To me, the D9200 have something really close to a neutral sound. Not really dark, not really bright. I really love that bass linearity - the extension is almost planar like. The focal clear graph is the most telling for me, tonality wise. The clear is the closest thing to a perfectly neutral headphone, save for that roll-off in the sub-bass. The D9200 largely fixes that, with just a bit more energy in the upper mids/low treble.

I still wouldn't call them sharp though, unless you're hyper sensitive to treble.

The D9200 is still my favorite closed back headphone at the moment, but I have to say, the Z7M2 definitely beats it at being, well, closed back. It isolates way more - almost as much as some IEMS, and leaks out substantially less noise. I don't have any comfort issues with the D9200, but the Z7M2 are basically giant cushions for your head. Like, I could probably fall asleep on my side with them and be more comfortable than my usual pillow. I like them a lot sound-wise too, but the treble just seems tame compared to the energy and excitement for my tastes.

You might actually like those @wadec22, the Z7M2 seems to measure pretty similar to the D7200 graphs I've seen. What I consider subdued treble might be that neutral slightly dark sound you like.

Can you compare the Z7 m2 to the Z7m1? Because I really found the m1 a pretty bad headphone, wouldn't compare it Beats, but almost.... Sounds from what you write that the m2 is a big improvement? Cheers.

 

[Napilopez]

Can you compare the Z7 m2 to the Z7m1? Because I really found the m1 a pretty bad headphone, wouldn't compare it Beats, but almost.... Sounds from what you write that the m2 is a big improvement? Cheers.

I haven't heard the M1 unfortunately. but by all accounts, the Z7M2 is a completely different headphones - closer to the Z1R than the original. I mean, the driver diaphragm, the magnet array, and the venting is completely different, so it's only really an 'MK2' in name. Certainly not any like any Beats I've heard. If anything, I think they sound a little too smooth - I could do with more bass punch and treble.

 

[Camper1995]

So yesterday I visited my local Denon store which had all their new headphone lineup on display.

I'll go straight to the point, my main comparison was between the 9200 and 7200. I have to say that the 9200 are a good step up from 7200, tho not as huge as I would have hoped, especially in terms of physical design / comfort. Sound-wise, they were such a nice mix of bright and warm and offered excellent clarity. I felt the treble was bright but not harsh or sharp, it was just right. I'm pretty treble sensitive and this one did not annoy me at all. Bass quantity on the other hand is reduced compared to 7200 but had better texture and was much more linear. Though it still rolls off quite early imo, sub-bass was audible but I wouldn't mind if it went deeper than it does (especially at this crazy price-point, I think it rolls off around 40Hz). I listen to a lot of rap/hip-hop and I'm somebody who likes a nice mid-bass thump so this one did not impress me that much in this regard. Midrange was very clean without any annoying spikes or dips and quite even. Also no annoying spike at 2-3k like on the 7200 so that's nice. Sound would completely satisfy me for a closed-back headphone and I could see myself owning the 9200. It doesn't compete with the ZMF Auteur imo but that one's an open-back and way bigger too (tho similar price point).

However I have to go back to the comfort issue. Even though the headphones are pretty lightweight, nothing seemed to be changed from 7200. It still uses the same headband (tho it did not create such a hot-spot on the top of my head like the 7200 did). Pads are the same, the oval opening for the ears is still quite small and the pads are still pretty shallow (maybe a tiny bit thicker than on 7200). I think this is my biggest issue with their new lineup in general. Pads should have been thicker with bigger opening for greater long-term comfort. Their size and depth annoys me and makes me constantly re-position the headphone on my head but nothing really helps. I think it's the main reason why I would never pick up any of the new Denons again. I sold my 7200 and I'm kind of glad. Comfort is simply the #1 thing for me.
Also they still leak sound to the outside world in comparison to other closed backs, most likely due to perforated and thin pads. It's not terrible but I wouldn't be able to take them to an open office environment and turn up my music.

 

[Napilopez]

So yesterday I visited my local Denon store which had all their new headphone lineup on display.

I'll go straight to the point, my main comparison was between the 9200 and 7200. I have to say that the 9200 are a good step up from 7200, tho not as huge as I would have hoped, especially in terms of physical design / comfort. Sound-wise, they were such a nice mix of bright and warm and offered excellent clarity. I felt the treble was bright but not harsh or sharp, it was just right. I'm pretty treble sensitive and this one did not annoy me at all. Bass quantity on the other hand is reduced compared to 7200 but had better texture and was much more linear. Though it still rolls off quite early imo, sub-bass was audible but I wouldn't mind if it went deeper than it does (especially at this crazy price-point, I think it rolls off around 40Hz). I listen to a lot of rap/hip-hop and I'm somebody who likes a nice mid-bass thump so this one did not impress me that much in this regard. Midrange was very clean without any annoying spikes or dips and quite even. Also no annoying spike at 2-3k like on the 7200 so that's nice. Sound would completely satisfy me for a closed-back headphone and I could see myself owning the 9200. It doesn't compete with the ZMF Auteur imo but that one's an open-back and way bigger too (tho similar price point).

However I have to go back to the comfort issue. Even though the headphones are pretty lightweight, nothing seemed to be changed from 7200. It still uses the same headband (tho it did not create such a hot-spot on the top of my head like the 7200 did). Pads are the same, the oval opening for the ears is still quite small and the pads are still pretty shallow (maybe a tiny bit thicker than on 7200). I think this is my biggest issue with their new lineup in general. Pads should have been thicker with bigger opening for greater long-term comfort. Their size and depth annoys me and makes me constantly re-position the headphone on my head but nothing really helps. I think it's the main reason why I would never pick up any of the new Denons again. I sold my 7200 and I'm kind of glad. Comfort is simply the #1 thing for me.
Also they still leak sound to the outside world in comparison to other closed backs, most likely due to perforated and thin pads. It's not terrible but I wouldn't be able to take them to an open office environment and turn up my music.

Thanks for the impressions! I agree about their pleasant mix of bright and warm. They are not 'neutral' in the traditional head-fi sense, but they seem to have a very speaker-like presentation and follow the harman curve fairly closely other than some extra brightness up top - which makes them a really good option to hear detail at low volumes.

I listen to a lot of rap/hip-hop/r&b too and I personally think they have pretty much the perfect amount of bass, with a very snappy kick and transients, especially for a closed back. They do respond very well to EQ too - the bass boost on my iFi Micro Black makes them into little earquake machines.

Do you wear glasses or have a lot of hair by any chance? Curious if that's affecting bass performance for you or if it's just a matter of preference. Always interesting to see how different people like their bass. A lot of people say the Elegia has enough bass for them, for instance, which I find it very hard to believe for modern bass-heavy genres. Sub-bass is pretty fine on that one, but the mid-bass is hollow.

I don't really hear them as rolled-off - my raw measurements show a couple of dB down from 40 to 30 and some more for 30 to 20, but it's still above my 300hz measurement baseline at 20hz. But different strokes!

And looks like comfort might be a more serious issue. I wear mine all day while working but then, comfort is much futher down my list than it is for most people and I very rarely find headphones uncomfortable in general. Curious to see what they'd be like with alternate pads, though!

 

[ctaxxxx]

Thanks for the impressions! I agree about their pleasant mix of bright and warm. They are not 'neutral' in the traditional head-fi sense, but they seem to have a very speaker-like presentation and follow the harman curve fairly closely other than some extra brightness up top - which makes them a really good option to hear detail at low volumes.

I listen to a lot of rap/hip-hop/r&b too and I personally think they have pretty much the perfect amount of bass, with a very snappy kick and transients, especially for a closed back. They do respond very well to EQ too - the bass boost on my iFi Micro Black makes them into little earquake machines.

Do you wear glasses or have a lot of hair by any chance? Curious if that's affecting bass performance for you or if it's just a matter of preference. Always interesting to see how different people like their bass. A lot of people say the Elegia has enough bass for them, for instance, which I find it very hard to believe for modern bass-heavy genres. Sub-bass is pretty fine on that one, but the mid-bass is hollow.

I don't really hear them as rolled-off - my raw measurements show a couple of dB down from 40 to 30 and some more for 30 to 20, but it's still above my 300hz measurement baseline at 20hz. But different strokes!

And looks like comfort might be a more serious issue. I wear mine all day while working but then, comfort is much futher down my list than it is for most people and I very rarely find headphones uncomfortable in general. Curious to see what they'd be like with alternate pads, though!

How does the 9200 soundstage compare to the Elegia? I've used the TH-900 a lot for gaming, and it's huge soundstage helps a lot with immersion. Elegia is on the smaller side, and can be a little bass light at times.

However, the main reason I'm leaning towards the Denon's is that they use 3.5mm cables, so I can use my existing aftermarket cables with them (both my 8ft 6.5mm and 4ft 4.4mm). Is there any fit issues at the connectors that would make them incompatible with 3rd party cables?

 

[Napilopez]

How does the 9200 soundstage compare to the Elegia? I've used the TH-900 a lot for gaming, and it's huge soundstage helps a lot with immersion. Elegia is on the smaller side, and can be a little bass light at times.

However, the main reason I'm leaning towards the Denon's is that they use 3.5mm cables, so I can use my existing aftermarket cables with them (both my 8ft 6.5mm and 4ft 4.4mm). Is there any fit issues at the connectors that would make them incompatible with 3rd party cables?

Well, considering I think the Elegia has a soundstage barely bigger than IEMs...

They both have similar imaging chops, but the D9200 is definitely wider and slightly bigger overall. But the Elegia isolates more and let's out less sound, which probably has something to do with it.

Nothing I can tell about the Denons that would cause connectivity issues. Basic 3.5mm holes that aren't recessed or anything.

 

[zolkis]

So yesterday I visited my local Denon store which had all their new headphone lineup on display.
I'll go straight to the point, my main comparison was between the 9200 and 7200. I have to say that the 9200 are a good step up from 7200, tho not as huge as I would have hoped, especially in terms of physical design / comfort. Sound-wise, they were such a nice mix of bright and warm and offered excellent clarity.

Yes, I had the same first impression.

I felt the treble was bright but not harsh or sharp, it was just right. I'm pretty treble sensitive and this one did not annoy me at all.

For me the treble was slightly on the edge. It's interesting how the higher end drivers tend to also sound brighter (like the TH900 driver).

Bass quantity on the other hand is reduced compared to 7200 but had better texture and was much more linear. Though it still rolls off quite early imo, sub-bass was audible but I wouldn't mind if it went deeper than it does (especially at this crazy price-point, I think it rolls off around 40Hz). I listen to a lot of rap/hip-hop and I'm somebody who likes a nice mid-bass thump so this one did not impress me that much in this regard. Midrange was very clean without any annoying spikes or dips and quite even. Also no annoying spike at 2-3k like on the 7200 so that's nice. Sound would completely satisfy me for a closed-back headphone and I could see myself owning the 9200. It doesn't compete with the ZMF Auteur imo but that one's an open-back and way bigger too (tho similar price point).

Subjectively the D9200 IMHO has deeper extension, more articulate and better controlled bass than the D7200, when listened from the same pads. I tried 3 pads: D9200, D7200 and modded D7200. But measurements would tell that part and I could not measure the D9200 yet. However, since the D9200 sounded even brighter with the modded pads, it sounds best with the stock pads. Now if I compare the stock D9200 with the modded D7200, the latter feels to be the more linear everywhere with a similarly rich tonality (see the measurements a few posts up).

However I have to go back to the comfort issue. Even though the headphones are pretty lightweight, nothing seemed to be changed from 7200. It still uses the same headband (tho it did not create such a hot-spot on the top of my head like the 7200 did). Pads are the same, the oval opening for the ears is still quite small and the pads are still pretty shallow (maybe a tiny bit thicker than on 7200). I think this is my biggest issue with their new lineup in general. Pads should have been thicker with bigger opening for greater long-term comfort. Their size and depth annoys me and makes me constantly re-position the headphone on my head but nothing really helps. I think it's the main reason why I would never pick up any of the new Denons again. I sold my 7200 and I'm kind of glad. Comfort is simply the #1 thing for me.
Also they still leak sound to the outside world in comparison to other closed backs, most likely due to perforated and thin pads. It's not terrible but I wouldn't be able to take them to an open office environment and turn up my music.

Well I can understand that part.

How does the 9200 soundstage compare to the Elegia? I've used the TH-900 a lot for gaming, and it's huge soundstage helps a lot with immersion. Elegia is on the smaller side, and can be a little bass light at times.

However, the main reason I'm leaning towards the Denon's is that they use 3.5mm cables, so I can use my existing aftermarket cables with them (both my 8ft 6.5mm and 4ft 4.4mm). Is there any fit issues at the connectors that would make them incompatible with 3rd party cables?

The TH900 is far more comfortable and the sound stage is quite much larger. As such, probably better for a gaming and movies headphone.

However, after modding the D7200 is on par with the TH900 on both fronts and also more linear than the considerably more colored / V-shaped TH900. In turn, the TH900 has higher sensitivity and more brutal bass impact - likely many would prefer that for games and action.

All in all, the D9200 is not more comfortable than the D7200, but sounds better in stock form (if the treble works for you). The TH900 is still better in comfort and gaming/action/EDM/rock/metal fun.
I cannot decide on selling either my TH900 or the D7200. They both get a lot of head time.

The D7200 is my office headphone and it doesn't leak too much at moderate (sometimes high) listening levels. The TH900 is my movie headphone while I have the e-stats (Stax, Phenomenon) and Senn's for critical/music listening and several noise-cancelling ones (Bose and Sony) for traveling or wireless listening plus a few drawer-fitters. However, the modded D7200 or stock D9200 could do all these with the least amount of compromise of all headphones that I know. That's why I said the D9200 is the first truly reference level closed headphone that I encountered in a long time (not counting the R10).

To challenge that, I have an ever postponed plan of making (printing? CNC?) a new driver plate to adapt a Stax SRX Mk3 (Gamma Pro) e-stat driver to the TH900 housing. Maybe something for 2019 . It certainly won't be too portable but I have high hopes for the quality . Anyway, it's not a stock model so the Denon D9200 remains my single do-it-all headphone model recommendation, with a wide room for easy modding potential (pad changes only).

For info, whoever wants higher/deeper pads for the D7200/D9200, I have a new set of MrSpeaker Voce pads, deep with large inner diameter (only EU).

 

[Napilopez]

Yeah, the D9200 are incredibly versatile, that's what I really love about them. Closed back, super detailed, good bass and treble. I still think these are the most detailed closed backs I've heard, and beat many open backs.

 

[vourt]

@zolkis - Your detailed comparison with D9200, D7200 and the TH900 is super helpful, i'm just wondering if you had the chance of testing the Sony Z1R which are the headphones i currently own and still thinking if i should go ahead with selling then and then buy D9200 / TH900 (could not afford holding both).
Main usage is office music listening and home gaming.

 

[zolkis]

@zolkis - i'm just wondering if you had the chance of testing the Sony Z1R which are the headphones i currently own and still thinking if i should go ahead with selling then and then buy D9200 / TH900 (could not afford holding both).
Main usage is office music listening and home gaming.

The Z1R certainly has an appeal, it's more linear than the TH900 and more fun than the D9200, though not so rich and correct in tonality IMHO. However, the Z1R bothered me every time with a slight hardness in the midrange, and slight wooliness in the bass. The D9200 has much cleaner bass IMHO and goes very deep. Also, it responds very well to all kinds of pads changes, whereas the Z1R is optimized to the stock pads and didn't sound better with other pads IMHO. If you are not unhappy with the Z1R, I suggest keeping it and wait some more experiences with the D9200 and also other headphones. There is a lot of competition today and the whole industry is moving forward with good pace. Update: the comfort factor is important to a lot of people. The Z1R is one of the most comfortable headphones, the Denon D7200 and D9200 clearly have issues with that.