[The Correlation]

There is a comparison slide inside this video, it was very informative.


So, in essence the D9200 driver seems to be "almost" the same as the D7200 driver - the membrane seems to be similar, eventually the magnetic circuit might be different, I don't know what they mean by a new iteration. The cups are certainly different, the cables too, with the D9200 one gets two cables, and it's made in Japan.

Even if they made a minor tweak on the driver, it might affect the sound just in the right direction and amount to make it worth upgrading. Let's see, but certainly there is less difference between the D9200 and D7200 than between the Fostex TH900 and TH610 (and Massdrop iterations using the TH610 drivers). To start with, I am not sure the Bamboo cups "sound" better than walnut. Maybe it's the cables that make most of the difference. Will see soon, hopefully.

Thank you very much for linking these videos, they are indeed interesting. To be honest, I find the only real issue with the 7200 to be some low-level midrange ringing. A finer material could well be the improvement to the sound the 7200 needed.

The made in Japan is actually also something important. I have noticed that some inconsistencies exist with current batches of 7200s. For instance, a new pair I purchased a few months ago actually had a really scratchy hinge and the cup fell off. The replacement didn't have that, but it left me weary.

 

[zolkis]

To be honest, I find the only real issue with the 7200 to be some low-level midrange ringing.

Right. It took me about a year, 8-10 different after-market and own made pads (paid in vain) and countless tuning/measurements iterations on the D7200 to tame that apparent midrange ringing.

Apparently it wasn't even present on every pair (I have heard stock D7200 without that ringing - it sounded excellent, from memory very close to the D9200).

So far the best was to modify the D7200 pads to have less foam, mainly in the back. As a bonus, I got better bass extension and slightly better treble too, with near-linear measurements (published on the D7200 thread).

(I would make the same mods on the D9200 pads as well, but instead of removing 30-40% of the internal foam from back and front, I'd only remove around 20% from the back side of the pads, making it slightly thinner and therefore the pads more plush. Stage would become larger and bass more "free", with better extension because of better seal and diminished internal air volume.

If after-market cups were available, I would have tried those as well on the D7200. As for now, you'd need a CNC machine or 3D printer to make Denon cups.
If Lawton starts doing that, it will likely cost even more than the Fostex cups.

By the size of it, looks like the D9200 cups would fit on the D7200, but I guess replacement cups won't come cheap either, so it makes more sense to buy the D9200 right away.

The morale is, if one doesn't hear the midrange ringing on the D7200, it should be good enough. If yes, there are two options: painful tweaking or cashing out more for the D9200. The latter is probably the safer option for most people.

 

[Serge Bernamej]

Funny because by now, all head-fi readers of the 7200/9200 posts know about that classic Zolkis mod, but I bet you everything that nobody else but him, have tried it.

 

[zolkis]

Funny because by now, all head-fi readers of the 7200/9200 posts know about that classic Zolkis mod, but I bet you everything that nobody else but him, have tried it.

Right, and that makes it rather irrelevant, especially for the given publicity - I get that and sorry for all the noise. I should stop talking about it, it's not really useful to include this option in all the comparisons. Anyway, it's one way to make the D7200 sound considerably and measurably better, and at no other cost than some manual work and a minor risk of ruining replacement pads.

 

[Serge Bernamej]

Right, and that makes it rather irrelevant, especially for the given publicity - I get that and sorry for all the noise. I should stop talking about it, it's not really useful to include this option in all the comparisons. Anyway, it's one way to make the D7200 sound considerably and measurably better, and at no other cost than some manual work and a minor risk of ruining replacement pads.

I really did not mean to look down on your mod, not at all. And I don’t think you should stop mentioning it; I rather hope somebody else would join on the mod

 

[Camper1995]

Right, and that makes it rather irrelevant, especially for the given publicity - I get that and sorry for all the noise. I should stop talking about it, it's not really useful to include this option in all the comparisons. Anyway, it's one way to make the D7200 sound considerably and measurably better, and at no other cost than some manual work and a minor risk of ruining replacement pads.

Is there any place that sells replacement D5200 / 7200 / 9200 pads? I'd attempt the mod but I don't want to ruin the only set of stock pads.
Cheers

 

[Serge Bernamej]

Is there any place that sells replacement D5200 / 7200 / 9200 pads? I'd attempt the mod but I don't want to ruin the only set of stock pads.
Cheers

The problem is that many poeple will find it very difficult to find replacement pads.

 

[zolkis]

Replacement pads can be obtained via your local dealer/importer. I have had no problems getting replacement pads for Fostex, Denon and Stax so far.

 

[Napilopez]

Update: These measurements under-represented the bass and over represented upper mids and treble due to seal issues. Updated measurements available here. What follows is my original post.

My MiniDSP Ears came in earlier this week, and I've been playing around with it enough that I feel fairly confident about the measurements. Still take these with a grain of salt as I'm still new to doing measurements myself and the EARS is not professional measurement equipment. Instead, I tried to compare them to a bunch of headphones I have on me so that hopefully people have a reference point.

This is done with the Minidsp HEQ calibration profile, which is supposed to be calibrated towards an ideal flat sound. Here's the average for five measurements. I found little variance with placement, mainly a little change in sub bass. I think it's fairly close to what I hear. Linear bass until the last few hertz, a good amount of upper energy.

Here's the raw uncompensated measurement from one sample. Note the MiniDSP often has a spike at 4.5k with several headphones that isn't actually there, and is less representative of what I actually hear overall so I'm sticking to HEQ for the comparisons:

Here's the HEQ comp with two other premium closed back headphones: The Sony Z7M2, and the Focal Elegia. Unfortunately had to return the HD820s before I got the EARS. They're all volume matched at 300hz as per MiniDSPs instructions. 1/12 octave smoothing:

And now for comparisons against some popular, cheaper headphones, here it is against the Sony 1000XM3 (ANC Off, turned on, wired), and Meze 99 Neo:

Lastly, here it is against the Focal Clear, for another reference in the same price range, even though it's open back. Pretty similar overall, with the D9200 sounding just a tad bit less rolled off and at the bottom, and a bit more V-shaped(in a good way imo):

Hope this is useful! Again, please take with a grain of salt because I'm new to this, but it's pretty reflective of what I hear. Also very much open to any advice to make my measurements better/more useful.

 

[wadec22]

My MiniDSP Ears came in earlier this week, and I've been playing around with it enough that I feel fairly confident about the measurements. Still take these with a grain of salt as I'm still new to doing measurements myself and the EARS is not professional measurement equipment. Instead, I tried to compare them to a bunch of headphones I have on me so that hopefully people have a reference point.

This is done with the Minidsp HEQ calibration profile, which is supposed to be calibrated towards an ideal flat sound. Here's the average for five measurements. I found little variance with placement, mainly a little change in sub bass. I think it's fairly close to what I hear. Linear bass until the last few hertz, a good amount of upper energy.

Hope this is useful! Again, please take with a grain of salt because I'm new to this, but it's pretty reflective of what I hear. Also very much open to any advice to make my measurements better/more useful.

This is really cool. Still surprises me how much different a sound signature they chose vs the very neutral, slightly warm/dark tilt on the 7200 that I covet so much. Honestly wish they would have just upped the comfort level - pads, headband, suspension system and kept same driver tuning.

 

[jmills8]

This is really cool. Still surprises me how much different a sound signature they chose vs the very neutral, slightly warm/dark tilt on the 7200 that I covet so much. Honestly wish they would have just upped the comfort level - pads, headband, suspension system and kept same driver tuning.

Exchange ear cups ?

 

[wadec22]

Exchange ear cups ?

not sure what you mean? I should exchange ear cups? I LOVE the 7200. I stuck some perforated ZMF lambskin universe pads and made a homemade headband cover with memory foam and pleather. I love the hell out of them and need no further changes. now if the 9200 had come out with killer pads (deeper with larger opening) a headband that was much improved and looked/felt more luxurious, i'd be all over it.

seeing it has been re-tuned and now looks like it is sharp up top - happy to stay where i'm at.

 

[jmills8]

not sure what you mean? I should exchange ear cups? I LOVE the 7200. I stuck some perforated ZMF lambskin universe pads and made a homemade headband cover with memory foam and pleather. I love the hell out of them and need no further changes. now if the 9200 had come out with killer pads (deeper with larger opening) a headband that was much improved and looked/felt more luxurious, i'd be all over it.

seeing it has been re-tuned and now looks like it is sharp up top - happy to stay where i'm at.

Remove 7200 earcups and put them onto the 9200 frame.

 

[wadec22]

Remove 7200 earcups and put them onto the 9200 frame.

i'm sorry, i'm not following. that seems like a huge spend for next to no gain. The 9200 headband/suspension/pads are not wildly improved and IMO a step backward from the pads and band i'm already using. perfectly happy Denon user as is.

 

[Napilopez]

This is really cool. Still surprises me how much different a sound signature they chose vs the very neutral, slightly warm/dark tilt on the 7200 that I covet so much. Honestly wish they would have just upped the comfort level - pads, headband, suspension system and kept same driver tuning.

To me, the D9200 have something really close to a neutral sound. Not really dark, not really bright. I really love that bass linearity - the extension is almost planar like. The focal clear graph is the most telling for me, tonality wise. The clear is the closest thing to a perfectly neutral headphone, save for that roll-off in the sub-bass. The D9200 largely fixes that, with just a bit more energy in the upper mids/low treble.

I still wouldn't call them sharp though, unless you're hyper sensitive to treble.

The D9200 is still my favorite closed back headphone at the moment, but I have to say, the Z7M2 definitely beats it at being, well, closed back. It isolates way more - almost as much as some IEMS, and leaks out substantially less noise. I don't have any comfort issues with the D9200, but the Z7M2 are basically giant cushions for your head. Like, I could probably fall asleep on my side with them and be more comfortable than my usual pillow. I like them a lot sound-wise too, but the treble just seems tame compared to the energy and excitement for my tastes.

You might actually like those @wadec22, the Z7M2 seems to measure pretty similar to the D7200 graphs I've seen. What I consider subdued treble might be that neutral slightly dark sound you like.