[barid]

Quote:

Exactly my thoughts on JH13.  Amazing for a $1,200 IEM to have such a blatant "deficiency."

 
I've been eyeing a pair of customs for a while now and had it narrowed down to the UERM or the JH13, but every time someone puts them up on a pedestal I see another person knocking them down a peg ( if we're mixing metaphors ).  The more I look and read the more I think I'll just stick with the W4 universal for the money.

 

[Spyro]

Owned JH13 but not UERM.  Based on everything I have read, without that sub-bass on JH13 I think both IEM's probably sound very very similar.
 
I am guessing that for a 6 driver IEM, JH didn't want the JH13 to sound too neutral and flat so they spiced up the lower bass a tad but many think it screwed up the over all sound sig.  Personally, I found it a little distracting but without it, I think JH13 would be too bass lite for my tastes.  I am more of JH16 guy. 

 

[czqdtc]

Quote:

 
I've been eyeing a pair of customs for a while now and had it narrowed down to the UERM or the JH13, but every time someone puts them up on a pedestal I see another person knocking them down a peg ( if we're mixing metaphors ).  The more I look and read the more I think I'll just stick with the W4 universal for the money.

Easy question. If you want pure music, stick with W4. If you want some excitement, get JH13. But you will always want to go back to W4, I promise you. JH13 just can't provide that magical mid-range.

 

[Zalithian]

The W4 is indeed really good. I've owned a few top tier IEMS and they were definitely the best "technically." At first I didn't like them at all, but I grew to like them more than any others I have owned. I had to sell them since I'm poor, but I just ordered another pair. I can't afford it, but hey, that's what credit cards are for.. right? Right?
 

 

[Xymordos]

UERM is flat and neutral in response, but it's mids are slightly forward. I don't feel like there isn't enough bass, since the bass is there when the song needs it. However, for people using other IEMs that isn't the ER4 (that thing's bass hits like a stick on a plastic barrel) there will be significant reduction in bass, especially compared to the JH13. The JH13 demo I heard had quite a boomy low end. The JH16 demo had a stiffer lower end but has way too much bass for my tastes. UERM's main attraction is in its massive sound stage and amazing instrument separation and clarity.
 
If you want to sleep with customs its quite uncomfortable. When I took my ear molds, I was asked to have my mouth slightly open. As a result, if I close(?) my teeth while wearing the iems feels awkward now. I have to pretty much leave my mouth position fixed.

 

[midoo1990]

Quote:

If you want to sleep with customs its quite uncomfortable. When I took my ear molds, I was asked to have my mouth slightly open. As a result, if I close(?) my teeth while wearing the iems feels awkward now. I have to pretty much leave my mouth position fixed.

erm,thats weird.i can move my mouth in any direction open or closed and nothing feels weird and the sound doesnt change.But i agree on the sleeping part.i cant sleep with my cutoms...or any iem for that matter.
 
Regarding this thread,i dont see any diminishing returns from universals to customs.i would use "significant".i owned pretty much all top tiers iems except se530 and i cant see anything coming close in SQ except the ck10(details,transperancy,airness) which i liked alot but couldnt handle the harsh treble.
i use my 13s at home or when im going on long trips,otherwise for rough usage i use my gro7 which is OK.Jh13 benefit from amping quite a bit imo,much better on my tube than ipod or whatever portable source.

 

[gnarlsagan]

I used to be set on getting customs but from what I've seen the diminishing returns problem is very real. It looks like no multi-driver set up can beat the accuracy of the ER4S. Especially using TWFK's results in at least one dip. If I take high fidelity to mean accurate sound reproduction at the eardum, is there anything that beats the ER4S? Do customs excel in other measurable ways?

 

[Spyro]

Quote:

I used to be set on getting customs but from what I've seen the diminishing returns problem is very real. It looks like no multi-driver set up can beat the accuracy of the ER4S. Especially using TWFK's results in at least one dip. If I take high fidelity to mean accurate sound reproduction at the eardum, is there anything that beats the ER4S? Do customs excel in other measurable ways?

Probably better realism and an overall more holographic sound, larger soundstage.  ER4 never sounded "real" to me.  It always sounded heavily tilted towards treble.

 

[gnarlsagan]

Probably better realism and an overall more holographic sound, larger soundstage.  ER4 never sounded "real" to me.  It always sounded heavily tilted towards treble.

I'd say that is because of either a lack of a proper seal or in ear resonance at 2.5 and 7.5kHz, which is a known problem depending on the ear and can be toned down with eq. With my shallow narrow ear canals and a very deep fit I can say the ER-6 sounds tonally perfect throughout the entire spectrum, more so than the UERM imo. I haven't seen any customs that measure as flat, and I'm assuming they sound like they measure. If there is a big enough boost or dip anywhere it will be audible in my experience.

 

[Xymordos]

Try the UERM, it sounds like a fully upgraded ER4, and it doesn't use the TWFK. I don't even recognize its mid/high driver in fact...doesn't seem to be produced by knowles. I heard the ER4 before. I think they both sound as flat, with the UERM having better bass, so it's less treble tilted, but mid forward.
 
Moving my mouth doesn't change the sound, it just feels less comfortable than without the customs on...

 

[Xymordos]

Also my W5000 have more bass oomph than the UERM imo, so there isn't that much bass on those things. The demo sounds very different from the real thing. The main attraction of UERM to me is its clarity, instrument separation and the sound stage, definitely the sound stage.