[violinvirtuoso]

Quote:

I see it on graphs, but I really can't hear it with any of my phones. Graphs tell that it's down -2.5dB at 50Hz with 16 Ohm phones, not really audible. With 32 Ohm phones it's down 2.5dB at 30Hz, which is completely inaudible. My measurements: http://rmaa.elektrokrishna.com/Comparisons/Cowon%20J3%20Loads%20vs%20Clip%2B.htm
 
I am using "resolving" phones (which is no criterion for that kind of issue) - I also have heard several of those so-called "high end" players, which all are pretty much a joke.

You are right, the roll-off isn't that bad. But it was definitely noticeable when I tried my SM3 (17 ohms).

 

[violinvirtuoso]

Quote:

I think the graph just makes it look a lot worse than it really is. It's there but it's not that noticeable and I don't hear much of a difference if any when EQ is added.
 
What qualifies as a "resolving phone" violinvirtuoso?

I definitely agree that the graph makes the roll-off look worse than it is. In general, I find freq response graphs to exaggerate audible differences (though it does make it very easy to see changes).
 
I don't have definitive answer to what a "resolving phone" is. I can't put a price minimum for it (because there are crazy values like the RE0 out there), and I can't put a graph to it. I have my own test tracks (listening for subtle clues such as how the performer breathes), but not everyone has that song, or rather the same recording of the same song with the same or higher bit rate with the same or better gear (rest of the audio chain).
 
I did not in any way mean to say that the Cowon players sound bad or even mediocre. My point was simply that I don't think the Cowon players are perfect; as well as why I think other people might have perceived them as perfect.

 

[SwordAngel]

So, I suppose it should be even less of an issue with my Westone UM3X (56Ω)?
 
Quote:

I see it on graphs, but I really can't hear it with any of my phones. Graphs tell that it's down -2.5dB at 50Hz with 16 Ohm phones, not really audible. With 32 Ohm phones it's down 2.5dB at 30Hz, which is completely inaudible. My measurements: http://rmaa.elektrokrishna.com/Comparisons/Cowon%20J3%20Loads%20vs%20Clip%2B.htm
 
I am using "resolving" phones (which is no criterion for that kind of issue) - I also have heard several of those so-called "high end" players, which all are pretty much a joke.

 

[violinvirtuoso]

Quote:

So, I suppose it should be even less of an issue with my Westone UM3X (56Ω)?
Yes.

 

[Noir7]

as for the J3, how does it fare with database management? is it as good as the ipod series? long ago i owned a D2+ but quite frustrated for its data management. most album randomized it self and unorganized.
 

 

[elfary]

Yesterday i auditioned my good old X5 along with my iPhone 3Gs and 09 Classic+lod+t3 and to me it was clearly audible the lack of LOW BASS.
 
You can try to fool your ears by tweaking the sound through the great rockbox eq but the lack is still there. I listened with Shure SE420's and triple flange tips.
 
Not knowing nothing about electricty or sound the only reason i can think of for the bass roll off is a not capable enough amplifier (current wise).
 
To me the sound is about DAC+AMP+HEADPHONEs. Digital processing just degrades the integrity of the digital data in order to fool the ear (With lots of success by the way).
 
A custom EQ comes in very handy to fine tune the sound to taste and the given gear but if you MUST use it to make up for something that is not there then the hardware is not good enough in my book.(Even if it provides you with lots of well marketed DSPs to cover for the hardware weaknesses).
 
Being a minimalist when it comes down to sound i'll take a non "bass rolling off" dap anyday over a rolling off one. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Bennyboy71]

so whats this got to do with the J3?
 
Bass roll-off, my arse. J3 sounds great.
 
Quote:

Yesterday i auditioned my good old X5 along with my iPhone 3Gs and 09 Classic+lod+t3 and to me it was clearly audible the lack of LOW BASS.
 
You can try to fool your ears by tweaking the sound through the great rockbox eq but the lack is still there. I listened with Shure SE420's and triple flange tips.
 
Not knowing nothing about electricty or sound the only reason i can think of for the bass roll off is a not capable enough amplifier (current wise).
 
To me the sound is about DAC+AMP+HEADPHONEs. Digital processing just degrades the integrity of the digital data in order to fool the ear (With lots of success by the way).
 
A custom EQ comes in very handy to fine tune the sound to taste and the given gear but if you MUST use it to make up for something that is not there then the hardware is not good enough in my book.(Even if it provides you with lots of well marketed DSPs to cover for the hardware weaknesses).
 
Being a minimalist when it comes down to sound i'll take a non "bass rolling off" dap anyday over a rolling off one. Just my 2 cents.

 

[Noir7]

so are there any comment regarding the database management?

 

[Nanashi]

Quote:

so are there any comment regarding the database management?

I find that it handles it pretty well. Just as you would see it on you computer, that is if you drag and drop. On the player itself you have different sub-fields to choose from (song, artist, etc...,) I usually pick songs and shuffle from there. I really don't know what there isn't to like about this, it's probably the formula used by most players, renamed or slightly changed that is. Does this answer your question as I'm not sure if that's what you meant with data management?
 
Also, iPods, at least from my previous experience suck at data management outside of anything but the player or itunes which is a big issue if your player or PC HDD go bugs***

 

[Noir7]

Quote:

I find that it handles it pretty well. Just as you would see it on you computer, that is if you drag and drop. On the player itself you have different sub-fields to choose from (song, artist, etc...,) I usually pick songs and shuffle from there. I really don't know what there isn't to like about this, it's probably the formula used by most players, renamed or slightly changed that is. Does this answer your question as I'm not sure if that's what you meant with data management?
 
Also, iPods, at least from my previous experience suck at data management outside of anything but the player or itunes which is a big issue if your player or PC HDD go bugs***

 
thanks for the reply, but could you be more specific about how it handle the sub fields?
is it organized (like naming from a-z, 1-9) or just random pick.
once i had a D2+, and the album management are quite a headache since it doesn't organized right and isn't as tidy as ipod structure.
 

 

[Nanashi]

It's organized ( when you go to songs, or actually any other field) by numbers, if there are any in the track name, and then alphabetical (A-Z.)

 

[Noir7]

Quote:

It's organized ( when you go to songs, or actually any other field) by numbers, if there are any in the track name, and then alphabetical (A-Z.)

thats a relieved, i sold my D2+ long ago just because of this problem.
looks like cowon really fix those issues from previous models.
i hope i won't go wrong replacing my ipod with these

 

[Nanashi]

Quote:

thats a relieved, i sold my D2+ long ago just because of this problem.
looks like cowon really fix those issues from previous models.
i hope i won't go wrong replacing my ipod with these

I'm positive you won't and hope you don't go wrong. I know that the minute I listened to my first tune on a Cowon player I was hooked for life. The package was sealed when I started tweaking the EQ and was blown away by how much different a sound can be achieved by this player. Also, I can honestly say that the J3 is the best one I have had/seen/heard without a doubt.

 

[rawrster]

I think compared to previous models that I've tested (S9,D2+) the navigation is much better. The D2+ wasn't bad when I flash skinned it and I assume the same for S9 but with the J3 I have no desire or need to even look for a flash skin to make the navigation better. It's good as it is and the controls actually make more sense. I've been browsing mostly by ID3 tags and either go to all songs or I go to a specific album I want to listen to.

 

[MARSHH]

Anyone here know the best full-sized headphone to pair with the J3?
 
My budget is around $250.
 
The reason I ask this is because I worry the J3 will not be able to sufficiently power decent headphones. And I believe the J3 cannot properly be used with a amp as well am I correct?