[Music Alchemist]

  There is a difference between the Mojo and "any DAC". The line out of "any DAC" may or may not be very good for driving headphones since it is normally not designed for that task. The output of the Mojo can be used as a line out but it is also designed to drive headphones. For most other DACs this is not the case and hence they need an external amp. The Mojo doesn't.
 
Again this is really all semantics. Like you say, adding any amp to any DAC is in fact double amping in a sense. The point is that most DACs need it while the Mojo does not.

 
Yes, you can drive most headphones with it, but the point here is that connecting an amp to the Mojo follows the same concept as connecting an amp to any other DAC. It's just that you have the added bonus of driving headphones directly from the DAC's analog output stage (which does have parallel transistors), unlike most DACs. But some headphones cannot be driven from it. Electrostatic headphones, for example, require an electrostatic amp or converter, so you would have to connect the Mojo to one of those for that type of headphone. Some exotic piezoelectric headphones may also require more power than the Mojo can provide. And I don't know anyone who would want to drive a HIFIMAN HE6 from the Mojo alone.
 

  The line out of "any DAC" does not have enough current to properly drive headphones since an amplifier is supposed to accept a line voltage  input. Also, the line out of "any DAC" is typically in the hundreds of ohms in resistance which is clearly unsuitable for driving headphone transducers..

 
Just so we're clear, @Hooster, I was not implying that headphones can or should be driven directly from conventional DACs. I just meant that adding an amp to the Mojo is not really double amping, just as adding an amp to any other DAC is not.
 
Of course, under most circumstances, I would not want to add an external amp. When I did compare direct from Mojo to adding an amp, the amp always made the sound quality worse. (But this was only with certain headphones and amps.)

 

[x RELIC x]

The design is a lot more involved than saying a=b compared to other DACs implementations. Semantics, yes, but I'm simply saying don't worry about double amping because the analogue out measures far better than most DAC's line-out and it's capable to drive headphones as well while keeping it as transparent to the source as possible without having extra gear in the Mojo's analogue path that most other conventional designs require. Win win.

 

[Deftone]

,Quote:

I feel that mojo is lacking in some. Mid bass slam and just overall dynamics. I prefer the dac portion of mojo as it's tech is nice but I'd like to alter its sound slightly with an amp to make it fun.

 
find an amp with the most distortion then, sounds like you want aggressive treble with fat bass, or even better get an amp with treble and bass EQ dials and turn them all the way up.

 

[Hooster]

When I did compare direct from Mojo to adding an amp, the amp always made the sound quality worse. (But this was only with certain headphones and amps.)

 
Many thanks for that useful observation. 

 

[Music Alchemist]

  Many thanks for that useful observation. 

 
Don't get the wrong idea from my impressions alone, though. This site is full of Mojo owners who prefer the sound with an external amp for one reason or another. It's the type of thing you just gotta try for yourself on a case by case basis to see which sounds better to you. (I'd guess the lone Mojo would win out most of the time.)

 

[NaiveSound]

find an amp with the most distortion then, sounds like you want aggressive treble with fat bass, or even better get an amp with treble and bass EQ dials and turn them all the way up.

Just want a little more dynamics and more punchy, nothing crazy...

 

[Music Alchemist]

Just want a little more dynamics and more punchy, nothing crazy...

 
Is this only for the Empire Ears Zeus-XR? Or do you have other unlisted headphones?
 
The reason I ask is because an amp or DAC/amp may synergize well with one headphone and not so well with another. What might give me more exciting dynamics with one headphone may not do the same for your headphones. Unfortunately, you can't know for sure until you try for yourself.
 
I'd advise experimenting with EQ before plunging further down the rabbit hole.

 

[Deftone]

Just want a little more dynamics and more punchy, nothing crazy...

 
Schiit Fulla (MusicAlchemist says this is more exciting sounding than mojo)
 
Schiit Magni 2 (I used to own one, its brighter/more agrressive sounding than mojo) 
 
It could just be that your EE Zues just doesnt sound exciting enough for you.....  what else have you plugged the zues in to, to come to the conclusion mojo is not enough?

 

[m8o]

My serial number is up there too. I really have to test this. I haven't noticed this behavior; maybe it's the charger and cable I choose to use (Just Mobile AluPlug & Alucable Duo Bundle). But I rarely have a silent environment too. I have to charge it up to and thru full charge, close the windows to super loud NYC, and mute the TV, dogs, and wife! (Haha to the last one)

Quoting myself to provide an answer to this. My Mojo serial number is M049XXX has been pluggged in and fully charged since mid-afternoon (it's late evening now). Whether off or on, latter with my dap on playing music over optical or not, all plugged in ... the Mojo doesn't make a sound.

My adapter and cable is above. I bought it cheap from Massdrop but Amazon Prime price is close.

 

[Deftone]

   
Is this only for the Empire Ears Zeus-XR? Or do you have other unlisted headphones?
 
The reason I ask is because an amp or DAC/amp may synergize well with one headphone and not so well with another. What might give me more exciting dynamics with one headphone may not do the same for your headphones. Unfortunately, you can't know for sure until you try for yourself.
 
I'd advise experimenting with EQ before plunging further down the rabbit hole.

 
Many headfi'ers ignore "synergy" and then start to blame things like output power etc.

 

[NaiveSound]

Is this only for the Empire Ears Zeus-XR? Or do you have other unlisted headphones?

The reason I ask is because an amp or DAC/amp may synergize well with one headphone and not so well with another. What might give me more exciting dynamics with one headphone may not do the same for your headphones. Unfortunately, you can't know for sure until you try for yourself.

I'd advise experimenting with EQ before plunging further down the rabbit hole.

Schiit Fulla (MusicAlchemist says this is more exciting sounding than mojo)

Schiit Magni 2 (I used to own one, its brighter/more agrressive sounding than mojo) 

It could just be that your EE Zues just doesnt sound exciting enough for you.....  what else have you plugged the zues in to, to come to the conclusion mojo is not enough?

I now have the Empire Ears Zeus-XRA (adel) which definetly brought the *fun* dynamic sound down a few good notches below the Zeus XR (non adel).
Going with Adel tech was a mistake I made but I have to wait some months and I'll be able to go to another revision or go back to my beloved XR(non adel) which was plenty of life, fun, resolution, dynamic and everything fun.

Just wanted to see if adding an amp on top of mojo could get me close my old XR...

I'm not very good with EQ, I always seem to distort the overall sound and not truly get what I want out of it.


I have connected the Cowon Plenue m2 (pm2) to mojo.

The way I do it is, by streaming Tidal hifi (or my own flacs) straight to the Pm2 and run the (jeteffect 7 EQ presets) and feed mojo via optical and then headphones. It's by far the funnest and nicest sound I could get out on various headphones and my Zeus XRA. A tad closer to the XR.


But I've decided to get rid of the Cowon plenue m2 and fund a used T1 2nd edition to use until the next Zeus revision.

I only used the Cowon pm2 for this jeteffect EQ presets and they sound very nice without distortion (in most but not all presets) but ONLY while feeding mojo. As mojo just made it proper yet still kept the fun EQ. (which I mildly used)

But I've tried EQ parametric in UAPP and feeding mojo and it just sounds awful. But I'm sure that's my wrongdoing.

But Cowon pm2 is too pricy to keep around just a mere EQ. Even tho it's looks and it's sound is decent.

 

[Music Alchemist]

  Schiit Fulla (MusicAlchemist says this is more exciting sounding than mojo)
 
Schiit Magni 2 (I used to own one, its brighter/more agrressive sounding than mojo) 
 
It could just be that your EE Zues just doesnt sound exciting enough for you.....  what else have you plugged the zues in to, to come to the conclusion mojo is not enough?

 
Oddly, for me, the Fulla is more exciting than the Mojo with the MT220, albeit at the expense of some sound quality, but with the KTXPRO1, I don't get much more excitement at all from the Fulla than the Mojo, and the Fulla sounds way worse. So it really does depend mainly on which headphones you're paring things with.
 
I had a Magni 2 Uber (and Modi 2) before I ever had a Fulla, but I used different headphones with each, so I can't give a good comparison there.
 

  Many headfi'ers ignore "synergy" and then start to blame things like output power etc.

 

 

I now have the Empire Ears Zeus-XRA (adel) which definetly brought the *fun* dynamic sound down a few good notches below the Zeus XR (non adel).
Going with Adel tech was a mistake I made but I have to wait some months and I'll be able to go to another revision or go back to my beloved XR(non adel) which was plenty of life, fun, resolution, dynamic and everything fun.

Just wanted to see if adding an amp on top of mojo could get me close my old XR...

I'm not very good with EQ, I always seem to distort the overall sound and not truly get what I want out of it.

I have connected the Cowon Plenue m2 (pm2) to mojo.

The way I do it is, by streaming Tidal hifi (or my own flacs) straight to the Pm2 and run the (jeteffect 7 EQ presets) and feed mojo via optical and then headphones. It's by far the funnest and nicest sound I could get out on various headphones and my Zeus XRA. A tad closer to the XR.

But I've decided to get rid of the Cowon plenue m2 and fund a used T1 2nd edition to use until the next Zeus revision.

I only used the Cowon pm2 for this jeteffect EQ presets and they sound very nice without distortion (in most but not all presets) but ONLY while feeding mojo. As mojo just made it proper yet still kept the fun EQ. (which I mildly used)

But I've tried EQ parametric in UAPP and feeding mojo and it just sounds awful. But I'm sure that's my wrongdoing.

But Cowon pm2 is too pricy to keep around just a mere EQ. Even tho it's looks and it's sound is decent.

 
Doing EQ the right way is challenging to say the least, even for the more experienced. I'm not surprised your initial efforts were disappointing.
 
Looks like you're introducing many factors into the equation. That provides for more possibilities, but also complicates things. I just hope you know what you're getting into before buying stuff. Otherwise you'll end up like me, going through gear like there's no tomorrow!

 

[jmills8]

Ok, $300 amp to improve on the Mojo, more than can be achieved by simply increasing the volume of the Mojo a notch or two? Anyone?

louder yes, slam no.

 

[Deftone]

I now have the Empire Ears Zeus-XRA (adel) which definetly brought the *fun* dynamic sound down a few good notches below the Zeus XR (non adel).
Going with Adel tech was a mistake I made but I have to wait some months and I'll be able to go to another revision or go back to my beloved XR(non adel) which was plenty of life, fun, resolution, dynamic and everything fun.

 
There's your solution, judging by what you have said and in my own experience you wont be satisfied until your get an original XR again.

 

[NaiveSound]

There's your solution, judging by what you have said and in my own experience you wont be satisfied until your get an original XR again.

Thanks guys, I'll just wait. Well... With a t1 2nd ed.

I've had it before in the past but it's been a while.

Would you guys say t1 2nd ed has decent synergy with mojo?