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Chord Hugo
Sep 6, 2014 at 4:50 PM Post #8,057 of 15,692
obsidyen said:
  The power switch sucks balls.
Click to expand...

 
how come no-one informed me of this tweak?... I feel cheated, my Hugo power-switch only does the on/off thingy...
mad.gif
 
 
Sep 6, 2014 at 9:26 PM Post #8,058 of 15,692
stevendjm said:
Thanks kkcc. If no bypass, then the signal will go through unnecessary amp section inside the hugo, causing negative impact on sound quality... Isn't it?
By the way, how would you compare hd800 with hugo output versus wa22 output?
Click to expand...

 
I have my Hugo plugged into active speakers and the Studio Six at the same time via an RCA splitter and the sound with my UERMs plugged in as well is the same as it is without the other things plugged in as far as I can tell. 
 
Sep 7, 2014 at 9:32 AM Post #8,063 of 15,692
After reading many recent pages, seeing a lot of newcomers, and the questions being asked, I think it's important to reiterate a few points.
 
 
There is no Line-out bypass level. There is actually nothing to bypass. You can preset the output level by holding the cross-FEED (not FADE) button when you turn Hugo on. You can also adjust the volume to most suitably match whatever you're connecting, without any degradation to the sound quality.
 
Secondly, in this situation, with the design of Hugo, and because the Hugo's outputs are analog, it is impossible to add anything to the output and make it better in sound quality. Except for special cases where very hard-to-drive headphones need more power. And even then, Rob mentioned that Hugo should even be able to drive around the 115dB level with difficult loads. But especially any IEMs, and the vast majority of headphones will only see degradation with the addition of analog gear. It's math. It's not up for debate.
 
There is not an amp gain stage like you're used to. There's not a DAC section, then an amp section. The way it's designed, you're essentially listening straight from the DAC because of the FPGA implementation.  In fact adding an amp is essentially double-amping.
 
Reminder of Rob's words:
"Now Hugo has a single active stage ... Note: there is no headphone drive. Normal high performance DAC's have 3 op-amp stages, followed by a separate headphone amp. ... (Hugo) is fundamentally simpler than all other headphone amp solutions."
 
"... there is not a separate headphone stage as such - its integrated into the DAC function directly. You can't remove the sound of the headphone amp from the sound of the DAC, it's one and the same."

An amp may drive something louder so headphones have more power, which will inevitably sound better if you need high SPLs. For most normal use applications, you cannot add to the sound of Hugo's output and improve on it. You are only inevitably and absolutely adding output impedance, interference, distortion, and lowering the S/N ratio, from a number of places by adding another pile of electronics and wire to the signal - in the form of an amp.
 
That's why there's so much disagreement on this around here, but you cannot improve on the quality of the sound off the output. Hugo is always more clean, controlled, and technically correct. Which isn't many people's preferred sound, which is totally ok. That's why we all have a billion different headphones, to suit taste, mood and genre. If you prefer recording your blue-ray disc onto VHS because it gives you that jolt of nostalgia (maybe akin to running your tube amp with Hugo), go nuts! Good for you. Nothing wrong with that. Just know that is what you're doing.
 
 These "improvements" people are perceiving are colorations and distortions more align with what they are used to, or more aligned with their preferences. Sure, their amp may have more low end, because of an uncontrolled driver - that's exactly what you'd get. The "improvements" are actually, in almost all cases, inaccuracies, colorations and distortions added to the sound with additional equipment. "Texture" is actually more distortion. "Bass extension" is really an underdamped driver, etc...
 
Mathematically, you cannot add to a complete analog system and make it better. Unless there was something fundamentally wrong with the Hugo at the line-out. Which is not the case. The specs top most everything. And some specs by enormous proportions. You can't add a lower performing anything and make it operate on a higher level. And simply, there are inherent and inevitable flaws associated with attaching another box electronics of any caliber to the Hugo's signal, it is not the best use of the signal! But some people will dig the character it adds to the sound. And that is fine, as long as you understand that picking up any extra gear to add to the output is actually only adding flaws, and you're tweaking coloration. The whole point of hi-end audio is to get out of the way of the music. Leave it as simple and pure as possible. Adding loads of electronics in the form of an amp is the antithesis of this concept. An amp adds alot. It really does.
 
Kind of like the difference between a high quality brand new leather wallet, and one that's been run in a couple years in your pocket. The new one is not one you're intuitively familiar with yet. You're used to and familiar with the older one, it fits you, and it looks way cooler to you now as it bears your personal character, and has the worn patina. All those bars and hotels...   Ok now this sounds like you're hooking up with your wallet, which Head-Fier's don't do, because their wallets hate them.
 
Cheers guys
 
Sep 7, 2014 at 12:26 PM Post #8,065 of 15,692
candude said:
  Amen!
 
Also read this post from Rob: http://www.head-fi.org/t/702787/chord-hugo/1830#post_10459450
Click to expand...

 
Thanks, meant to link to that.
 
Sep 7, 2014 at 1:37 PM Post #8,066 of 15,692
Maybe it's just my taste, but the sound is best thru my Rudistor amp with the Hugo turned on with the crossfeed button pressed, I guess this just means maximum volume (violet-white color).
I maybe was wrong thinking the Hugo attenuator was completely bypassed by this method (just from my listening impressions), but, no matter, it sounds great. Everyone looking for a DAC should get a Hugo (just sayin' ...).
 
Sep 7, 2014 at 2:06 PM Post #8,067 of 15,692
soundfreaq said:
  After reading many recent pages, seeing a lot of newcomers, and the questions being asked, I think it's important to reiterate a few points.
 
 
There is no Line-out bypass level. There is actually nothing to bypass. You can preset the output level by holding the cross-FEED (not FADE) button when you turn Hugo on. You can also adjust the volume to most suitably match whatever you're connecting, without any degradation to the sound quality.
 
Secondly, in this situation, with the design of Hugo, and because the Hugo's outputs are analog, it is impossible to add anything to the output and make it better in sound quality. Except for special cases where very hard-to-drive headphones need more power. And even then, Rob mentioned that Hugo should even be able to drive around the 115dB level with difficult loads. But especially any IEMs, and the vast majority of headphones will only see degradation with the addition of analog gear. It's math. It's not up for debate.
 
There is not an amp gain stage like you're used to. There's not a DAC section, then an amp section. The way it's designed, you're essentially listening straight from the DAC because of the FPGA implementation.  In fact adding an amp is essentially double-amping.
 
Reminder of Rob's words:
"Now Hugo has a single active stage ... Note: there is no headphone drive. Normal high performance DAC's have 3 op-amp stages, followed by a separate headphone amp. ... (Hugo) is fundamentally simpler than all other headphone amp solutions."
 
"... there is not a separate headphone stage as such - its integrated into the DAC function directly. You can't remove the sound of the headphone amp from the sound of the DAC, it's one and the same."

An amp may drive something louder so headphones have more power, which will inevitably sound better if you need high SPLs. For most normal use applications, you cannot add to the sound of Hugo's output and improve on it. You are only inevitably and absolutely adding output impedance, interference, distortion, and lowering the S/N ratio, from a number of places by adding another pile of electronics and wire to the signal - in the form of an amp.
 
That's why there's so much disagreement on this around here, but you cannot improve on the quality of the sound off the output. Hugo is always more clean, controlled, and technically correct. Which isn't many people's preferred sound, which is totally ok. That's why we all have a billion different headphones, to suit taste, mood and genre. If you prefer recording your blue-ray disc onto VHS because it gives you that jolt of nostalgia (maybe akin to running your tube amp with Hugo), go nuts! Good for you. Nothing wrong with that. Just know that is what you're doing.
 
 These "improvements" people are perceiving are colorations and distortions more align with what they are used to, or more aligned with their preferences. Sure, their amp may have more low end, because of an uncontrolled driver - that's exactly what you'd get. The "improvements" are actually, in almost all cases, inaccuracies, colorations and distortions added to the sound with additional equipment. "Texture" is actually more distortion. "Bass extension" is really an underdamped driver, etc...
 
Mathematically, you cannot add to a complete analog system and make it better. Unless there was something fundamentally wrong with the Hugo at the line-out. Which is not the case. The specs top most everything. And some specs by enormous proportions. You can't add a lower performing anything and make it operate on a higher level. And simply, there are inherent and inevitable flaws associated with attaching another box electronics of any caliber to the Hugo's signal, it is not the best use of the signal! But some people will dig the character it adds to the sound. And that is fine, as long as you understand that picking up any extra gear to add to the output is actually only adding flaws, and you're tweaking coloration. The whole point of hi-end audio is to get out of the way of the music. Leave it as simple and pure as possible. Adding loads of electronics in the form of an amp is the antithesis of this concept. An amp adds alot. It really does.
 
Kind of like the difference between a high quality brand new leather wallet, and one that's been run in a couple years in your pocket. The new one is not one you're intuitively familiar with yet. You're used to and familiar with the older one, it fits you, and it looks way cooler to you now as it bears your personal character, and has the worn patina. All those bars and hotels...   Ok now this sounds like you're hooking up with your wallet, which Head-Fier's don't do, because their wallets hate them.
 
Cheers guys
Click to expand...

 
 
Well said.
 
Sep 7, 2014 at 2:39 PM Post #8,068 of 15,692
So just to be clear, there's no difference between using RCA outputs and headphone outputs whilst connecting Hugo to active speakers?
 
Sep 7, 2014 at 3:39 PM Post #8,069 of 15,692
rgs9200m said:
  Maybe it's just my taste, but the sound is best thru my Rudistor amp with the Hugo turned on with the crossfeed button pressed, I guess this just means maximum volume (violet-white color).
I maybe was wrong thinking the Hugo attenuator was completely bypassed by this method (just from my listening impressions), but, no matter, it sounds great. Everyone looking for a DAC should get a Hugo (just sayin' ...).
Click to expand...

 
Totally. It sounds like you prefer a tweak to your sound that you find more enjoyable. Enjoyment it what matters in the end - however that comes. Technically perfect isn't always the best case, and certainly not for everyone.
 
Personally, I love how the Abyss amps up.. : )  with a Liquid Gold behind it. It just needs some extra weight. Nothing wrong with any of that.
obsidyen said:
  So just to be clear, there's no difference between using RCA outputs and headphone outputs whilst connecting Hugo to active speakers?
Click to expand...

 
Not to my knowledge. It's all driven from the same place.
 
Sep 7, 2014 at 8:20 PM Post #8,070 of 15,692
So for ones using set of passive speakers with the hugo, would double amping Hugo -> external amp-> Speakers result in bad sound? Would getting a straight alone dac like the qutehd. -> external amp sound better?

Wondering how much double amping. would have a negative sound effect..?
 
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