Cayin N8 TOTL DAP: KORG Nutube, Dual AK4497, 4.4mm phone/line out

[Frankie D]

Chord recommends SE because their DAC implementation is very different than the typical off-the-shelf solutions so they don't benefit from a balanced implementation, and the SE measures better than balanced in their designs. A balanced implementation requires more components in the signal path and reduces transparency to the source, and transparency to the source is what the designer is going for. They do provide a balanced output on the higher end desktop gear for convenience to the user. Depending on the gear connected to the balanced output there may or may not be a benefit.

Other gear can benefit greatly from using a balanced topology, either for measurements or desired tuning, depending on the overall design goal. In the end it depends on the implementation and the end goal of the design.

Thank you. Still, it sounds like the SE 3.5mm can still be the best connection if implemented properly. In any event, thank you for the explanation.

 

[AnakChan]

Now that I've gotten some of my other obligations away, I've finally been able to listen to the N8 more dedicatedly despite having it in my hands for the past 6 weeks. My main comparison would be against the NW-WM1Z as I feel these two are more similar than with the DX200 (the other DAP I have in my hands). I just realised that I never shared my 1st impressions of t he N8 in this thread but on the King of DAPs thread instead.

Listening today, I feel that my original impressions still stand whereby the N8 is just more expansive compared to the NW-WM1Z. Mind you at least to my ears, the NW-WM1Z was never really did create a wide soundstage but was strong in depth. Other DAPs such as the A&K and even the DX200 to my ears created a wider soundstage. However the N8 seems to do both of creating a wide and deep soundstage with a lot of headroom. For the DAPs I've personally heard, to this date, I don't think any other DAP that's been able to create such a large soundstage that's comparable to desktop-based systems, therefore I'm impressed nevertheless. In terms of detail retrieval, the N8 pulls as well as the top tier DAPs as one would expect; furthermore its presentation of the details is very smooth indeed.

Tonally there seems to be a little bit more bass depth or warmth in the NW-WM1Z over the N8 - if the NW-WM1Z is autumn, the N8 would be spring. It's just different - to me tonal balance is entirely user preferential rather than one better than the other (such as technical excellence). The N8 does across the entire FR well however. Bass goes deep and has a decent impact, mids are crisp and clear, and the trebles extend high and smooth. Whilst the NW-WM1Z may be more warm and the DX200 a little more neutral, the N8 would fit in between (and on the opposite, I'd put the AK series more "clinical"). However for the aforementioned expansive virtual space N8 creates, I find that I focus more on that rather than the tonal balance of the DAP - comparing back 'n forth, that larger virtual space just grabs my attention more than the FR response making the N8 more enjoyable.

For the non-sonic aspects of the N8, whilst its a large and heavy DAP, it's lighter than the NW-WM1Z and my former AK380+Piggyback Amp module. I actually don't mind the N8 not having a 2.5mm TRRS. Personally I'm sold with the 4.4mm balanced anyway and think the DAP market should head toward that direction. Further with the N8 supporting the Korg NuTube is a positive move. It's really having multiple amps in one and Cayin has done a really fantastic job in the dampening vibrations around the NuTube. For those who have not experienced the NuTube, it is -very- sensitive to vibrations which results in your typical vacuum tube pings. The window for the NuTube glow is super cool though.

The N8 aren't without flaws however (at least to -user- preference), e.g. I'm not so crazy about its shape as to me its reminiscent of the AK380, and the UI, whilst smooth, reminds (or reveals to) me of an Android interface. Again this could be user preference however I'm more comfortable with the Sony-styled UI. As for the dials and buttons on the N8, they work well...it's just a matter of getting used to. I've not tested battery life however I have noticed that it does drain faster than my other DAPs when it is off. Also, charging it fully from my iMac Pro (Thunderbolt 3 -> USB-C), it took ~14-16 hrs. Not too sure if this is the norm.

I really wish I had more time to do a more proper thorough review of the N8 however this is a demo unit of which it'll have to go to someone else. I'm likely going to send it off this weekend so have only a few more days with it. My fault for not being able to do anything with it for the first 6 weeks.

Edit: oh this is still on FW 2.0 if it makes any difference. I've not upgraded it to 2.2

 

[tunes]

Now that I've gotten some of my other obligations away, I've finally been able to listen to the N8 more dedicatedly despite having it in my hands for the past 6 weeks. My main comparison would be against the NW-WM1Z as I feel these two are more similar than with the DX200 (the other DAP I have in my hands). I just realised that I never shared my 1st impressions of t he N8 in this thread but on the King of DAPs thread instead.

Listening today, I feel that my original impressions still stand whereby the N8 is just more expansive compared to the NW-WM1Z. Mind you at least to my ears, the NW-WM1Z was never really did create a wide soundstage but was strong in depth. Other DAPs such as the A&K and even the DX200 to my ears created a wider soundstage. However the N8 seems to do both of creating a wide and deep soundstage with a lot of headroom. For the DAPs I've personally heard, to this date, I don't think any other DAP that's been able to create such a large soundstage that's comparable to desktop-based systems, therefore I'm impressed nevertheless. In terms of detail retrieval, the N8 pulls as well as the top tier DAPs as one would expect; furthermore its presentation of the details is very smooth indeed.

Tonally there seems to be a little bit more bass depth or warmth in the NW-WM1Z over the N8 - if the NW-WM1Z is autumn, the N8 would be spring. It's just different - to me tonal balance is entirely user preferential rather than one better than the other (such as technical excellence). The N8 does across the entire FR well however. Bass goes deep and has a decent impact, mids are crisp and clear, and the trebles extend high and smooth. Whilst the NW-WM1Z may be more warm and the DX200 a little more neutral, the N8 would fit in between (and on the opposite, I'd put the AK series more "clinical"). However for the aforementioned expansive virtual space N8 creates, I find that I focus more on that rather than the tonal balance of the DAP - comparing back 'n forth, that larger virtual space just grabs my attention more than the FR response making the N8 more enjoyable.

For the non-sonic aspects of the N8, whilst its a large and heavy DAP, it's lighter than the NW-WM1Z and my former AK380+Piggyback Amp module. I actually don't mind the N8 not having a 2.5mm TRRS. Personally I'm sold with the 4.4mm balanced anyway and think the DAP market should head toward that direction. Further with the N8 supporting the Korg NuTube is a positive move. It's really having multiple amps in one and Cayin has done a really fantastic job in the dampening vibrations around the NuTube. For those who have not experienced the NuTube, it is -very- sensitive to vibrations which results in your typical vacuum tube pings. The window for the NuTube glow is super cool though.

The N8 aren't without flaws however (at least to -user- preference), e.g. I'm not so crazy about its shape as to me its reminiscent of the AK380, and the UI, whilst smooth, reminds (or reveals to) me of an Android interface. Again this could be user preference however I'm more comfortable with the Sony-styled UI. As for the dials and buttons on the N8, they work well...it's just a matter of getting used to. I've not tested battery life however I have noticed that it does drain faster than my other DAPs when it is off. Also, charging it fully from my iMac Pro (Thunderbolt 3 -> USB-C), it took ~14-16 hrs. Not too sure if this is the norm.

I really wish I had more time to do a more proper thorough review of the N8 however this is a demo unit of which it'll have to go to someone else. I'm likely going to send it off this weekend so have only a few more days with it. My fault for not being able to do anything with it for the first 6 weeks.

Edit: oh this is still on FW 2.0 if it makes any difference. I've not upgraded it to 2.2

In terms of width and depth of the sound space, where does the iBasso DX200 and Cayin N8 fit in compared to the Questyle QP1R?

 

[AnakChan]

In terms of width and depth of the sound space, where does the iBasso DX200 and Cayin N8 fit in compared to the Questyle QP1R?

Never tried the QP1R.

 

[jmills8]

In terms of width and depth of the sound space, where does the iBasso DX200 and Cayin N8 fit in compared to the Questyle QP1R?

N8 deeper and wider. I had all three.

 

[musicday]

Two questions only: for such premium music player ( $$ ), when the battery dies how can it be replaced and for how much?

 

[vodanhkhack]

Two questions only: for such premium music player ( $$ ), when the battery dies how can it be replaced and for how much?

Very very good questions! another 4K USD to....buy another Cayin N9 or N10 after 3 or 4 years, maybe?

 

[jmills8]

Two questions only: for such premium music player ( $$ ), when the battery dies how can it be replaced and for how much?

You been asking that for 4 yrs.

 

[musicday]

You been asking that for 4 yrs.

Never been answered, so had to be asked again.

 

[jmills8]

Never been answered, so had to be asked again.

You have asked this question on several post about many different daps. Ok Ill bite what do you do with ypur Tera Player ? I have a Cowin dap from 2006 with no battery issues. I have a DX100 with no battery issue.

 

[musicday]

You have asked this question on several post about many different daps. Ok Ill bite what do you do with ypur Tera Player ? I have a Cowin dap from 2006 with no battery issues. I have a DX100 with no battery issue.

It doesn't matter if you don't ask, I will do it for you. For example: if I want to buy a very expensive high quality portable music player, like N8, I want to enjoy it for as long as possible and I want to know if battery can be replaced, how easy, how much etc. Never intended to replace a portable music player every 2-3 years.

 

[jmills8]

It doesn't matter if you don't ask, I will do it for you. For example: if I want to buy a very expensive high quality portable music player, like N8, I want to enjoy it for as long as possible and I want to know if battery can be replaced, how easy, how much etc. Never intended to replace a portable music player every 2-3 years.

Well my dap from 2006 still working so 13 yrs. Another frim 2011 no battery issues so thats 8 yrs. What have the other companies said ? I assume you could ship it back to the company and have them replace it ? I lnow a few shops here that will replace the battery.

 

[tunes]

N8 deeper and wider. I had all three.

Since the N8 does not have optical out, how can I connect it as a transport the the CHORD HMS? See above inputs. USB, BNC,Optical

Also, is there WiFi capability for streaming from TIDAL or Qubos?

 

[jmills8]

Since the N8 does not have optical out, how can I connect it as a transport the the CHORD HMS? See above inputs. USB, BNC,Optical

Also, is there WiFi capability for streaming from TIDAL or Qubos?

Sorry, I dont know, I only use this for on the go.

 

[twister6]

It doesn't matter if you don't ask, I will do it for you. For example: if I want to buy a very expensive high quality portable music player, like N8, I want to enjoy it for as long as possible and I want to know if battery can be replaced, how easy, how much etc. Never intended to replace a portable music player every 2-3 years.

But you do realize that in the last 4yrs since you've been asking about battery (and OLED display ), you are getting the same answer that nobody makes DAPs with replaceable batteries, and after design/sale cycle is done, manufacturers usually have enough spare parts to support their products within a reasonable warranty period. Then, it's done. Every company follows the same route. Nothing going to change, so you might as well continue using your minimalistic no-display wav-playback only high output impedance Tera Player because it was designed to withstand the nuclear bast and the testament of time, and it works for you, bud It seems that over the last 3-4 years, you have been asking same questions in every DAP thread, still looking for Tera Player replacement or alternative. It's quite understandable where you are coming from and your requirements of longevity, but years later you are still asking the same questions, still didn't find the replacement, and still disappointed with all the new releases. Am I correct? It is what it is, man, just a reality. You either have to compromise on something, or get a spare Tera Player for the future.