Cayin N8 TOTL DAP: KORG Nutube, Dual AK4497, 4.4mm phone/line out
Mar 20, 2019 at 2:15 AM Post #1,592 of 3,873
Mar 20, 2019 at 3:14 AM Post #1,594 of 3,873
This looks definitely premium in brass but we may need something drastically different. Like.. how about mini N8 with Korg Tube only version at a little lower price.
I am sure that will sell like hot cakes...I will be the first one to buy.

We don't have any plan on mini N8 right now, if you are referring to a single-ended only high-end DAP, we probably won't attempt this market in near future. We believe Single-ended can sound great, that's why we invested a lot of resource on the single-ended circuit, but we can't afford the marketing cost to convince the general public on this issue. There is no point, from business point of view, to fight against the whole Personal Audio community IMHO.
 
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Mar 20, 2019 at 9:26 AM Post #1,596 of 3,873
We don't have any plan on mini N8 right now, if you are referring to a single-ended only high-end DAP, we probably won't attempt this market in near future. We believe Single-ended can sound great, that's why we invested a lot of resource on the single-ended circuit, but we can't afford the marketing cost to convince the general public on this issue. There is no point, from business point of view, to fight against the whole Personal Audio community IMHO.

I wasn't really after SE but more interested in the tube implementation which happens to come in through SE. I believe most of N8 users just love the tube sounds including myself.
Thus, I suggested the mini N8 with tube only. The Ibasso will come up with a tube amp card shortly and if it sounds right at lower cost, it may impact your market.
 
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Mar 20, 2019 at 11:07 AM Post #1,598 of 3,873
I wasn't really after SE but more interested in the tube implementation which happens to come in through SE. I believe most of N8 users just love the tube sounds including myself.
Thus, I suggested the mini N8 with tube only. The Ibasso will come up with a tube amp card shortly and if it sounds right at lower cost, it may impact your market.

You are talking about a super N8, not a mini N8. Your suggestion involves a significant increase in bill of material, and we need to increase the size of the DAP, as well as the battery in order to maintain the 8 hours duration benchmark.

Take a closer look at our circuit design and you'll understand the reason behind this:
10212114.jpg
 
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Mar 20, 2019 at 11:12 AM Post #1,599 of 3,873
So did you also run into any issue while performing the local storage upgrade using the internal storage?
No, once the OTA download started running at a decent speed it all worked fine the same as previous upgrades, it was just the first attempt where the download stalled partway through after running at a snail's pace for 12hrs or so that I had problems.
 
Mar 20, 2019 at 2:14 PM Post #1,600 of 3,873
The N8 sounds really great, but the unit is soooo heavy...
 
Mar 20, 2019 at 2:25 PM Post #1,601 of 3,873
The N8 sounds really great, but the unit is soooo heavy...
Oo I know, Im using it 3 hrs per day, five to six days per week. Im walking and taking trains to and from work plus Im standing 4 to 7 hrs at work.
 
Mar 20, 2019 at 3:32 PM Post #1,602 of 3,873
You are talking about a super N8, not a mini N8. Your suggestion involves a significant increase in bill of material, and we need to increase the size of the DAP, as well as the battery in order to maintain the 8 hours duration benchmark.

Take a closer look at our circuit design and you'll understand the reason behind this:
10212114.jpg

Thanks for sharing but just as an average listener I wouldn't be able to read your schematic but I still don't follow your logic behind device getting bigger
if we are to just take out components specific to 3.5mm lineout and 4.4mm line/phone out, unless the single, standalone nutube implementation requires bigger and more complex circuitry.
 
Mar 20, 2019 at 5:31 PM Post #1,603 of 3,873
We don't have any plan on mini N8 right now, if you are referring to a single-ended only high-end DAP, we probably won't attempt this market in near future. We believe Single-ended can sound great, that's why we invested a lot of resource on the single-ended circuit, but we can't afford the marketing cost to convince the general public on this issue. There is no point, from business point of view, to fight against the whole Personal Audio community IMHO.
I am not sure what is meant by single ended. However I do know they Chord recommends the 3.5mm connection and says that is sounds better than the 2.5mm connections espoused by others. And your 3.5mm connectionworh the Kory tube sounded fabulous when I heard it. Tks.
 
Mar 20, 2019 at 5:42 PM Post #1,604 of 3,873
N8 Brass Black
Master Quality Digital Audio Player with Dignis Case

MSRP: US$3,699 (available by April 2019)

Cayin shall extend the N8 legend by offering the N8 Brass Black, a new version of N8 that includes all the fabulous N8 technologies and a new chassis that offers the finest texture and detail.



When we announced Cayin N8, we surprised the world with numerous technological innovations to portable audio application. We offered 3 choices of amplification (4.4mm BAL, 3.5mm SE-SS, 3.5mm SE-Tube) in N8. On top of the full-blow balanced circuit behind the 4.4mm connector, users can choose between vacuum tube or solid state from the 3.5mm headphone output. This is, for the first time in audiophile history, vacuum tube amplification is implemented in portable DAP. The 5-stages amplification circuit behind the Timber selection feature is another significant achievement in portable audio. In addition, the newly introduced High Impedance High Output Mode, I2S digital output, and dual (balanced and singled-end) line out are unique features that covers different aspects and applications of DAP. We have indeed pushed the envelope and delivered our ultimate DAP implementation.

Metal work and Surface Treatment

N8 starts off with Stainless Steel chassis in brushed natural color finish, but when we want to introduce a “black” version, we decided to go for brass instead. We want to take advantage of brass’ better thermal conductivity characteristics but we need to resolve a long list of surface treatment problems before we can realize the edge. The first thing we need to do is to revise our tooling and CNC process. This is costly, but relatively straight-forward from technical point of view.


A new set of tooling before we start to use a new material for chassis​


N8 Chassis in CNC Process​


N8 Chassis before Surface Treatment​

We spend around 6 months trying out numerous options (yes, we have this in mind before we launch N8 to the market), and our final solution is CNC from solid piece of brass, brushed and then sandblasted, and finally Telfon spray coating at not lower than 220oC. This is the only solution that, when executed correctly, delivers the finest texture and detail, and achieve a hardened surface that offers excellent wear-resistant, anti-oxidation and anti-corrosive protection to our satisfactory.






Laser engraving penetrates Telfon coating, labels are displayed in natural brass color​

Comparing Brass Black to Stainless Steel version

We shall provide a brief comparison between the original N8 and N8 Brass Black as follows:

Heat Management

To dissipate the heat generated by the audio circuit effectively, we have attaching Panasonic PGS (Pyrolytic Graphic Sheet) to components that generated a lot of heat and direct the heat energy to the Stainless steel body. In other word, the chassis works as a heatsink and lower the operation temperature of N8.

Since brass is a much better thermal conductor then stainless steel, so when we apply the same heat management technique to the Brass Black N8, the heat energy will dissipate more effectively. It will reach stable operation temperature more quickly, and the surface temperature of N8 Brass Black is approximately 2℃ lower than the standard stainless steel version

Weight

The Brass Black version is about 5g heavier than the stainless steel version, user probably won’t notice the different unless they compare them carefully.

Sound Signature

Both Stainless Steel and Brass Black version employ exactly the same circuit design and components, the only different are chassis material and coating technique. Standard version of N8 is 304 stainless steel and it contains small amount of chromium and nickel. It is an austenite steel and is slightly responsive to magnetic fields. Brass, on the other hand, is non-magnetic but it possesses relatively good electrical conductivity when compare to Stainless steel. These physical characteristics will introduce minor different in audio performance because stainless steel chassis will offer better anti-interference (especially to high frequency) while brass chassis will improve the efficiency of the grounding system due to its edge in conductivity. As manufacturer, we shall leave the final listening impression to users. The different is subtle, it is not an “A is better than B” scenario and personal preference will pay a major role.



Dignis Protective Case

When we provide a set of dummy N8 chassis to Dignis during the early stage of their development project, we have reminded them about the need to protect the two control dials from accidental operation because we received a lot of user feedbacks on this regard. Dignis takes users suggestions seriously and spend 3 months to develop the N8 protective case. They have custom make a set of three metal guards and attached them with high quality adhesive tape strategically on the right side panel of N8. The protective case is semi-closure design with the control dials all wrapped up, leaving opening on both side for their designated operation. We have tested the protective case thoroughly and are happy to report that the Dignis solution is “almost” bullet proof.



We received the protective case sample just before CanJam New York. The case is carefully hand crafted and fit like a glove to the N8. Every corner is tailor-cut to perfect fit, and pierced metal plates were installed at the back of the case to enhance ventilation and deliver a very eye-catching 3D glitch-effect. We like it so much that we immediately place an order with Dignis and adopted this projective case as our standard accessories for Brass Black version. According to Dignis, the protective case will be available at their website by end of March. It will retail at US$199 and will be available through Cayin’s dealer network.



Price and Availability

In order to maintain consistency on the Telfon spray finishing and fulfilling the MoQ requirement, we shall produce the N8 Brass Black in one lot only. In other word, N8 Brass Black will be a limited edition and we have allocated 300 units for International market. Since the N8 Brass Black takes longer to produce (extra surface treatment and coating process) and has a lower yield-rate, we have to adjust the retail price accordingly. The US suggested retail price is $3,699 (with Dignis case bundled) and will be available by early April 2019. The N8 Brass Black will debut at CanJam Singapore (30-31 March 2019). Please stay tune for user impressions from the CanJam event, or contact your Cayin dealer for availability and local retail price.

Andy, can you please provide a little more information on the difference in sound between the stainless steal and brass versions. Perhaps mentioning some songs in the process? Also, is there anyway you can further explain the advantage stainless steel would have with its anti-interference to high frequency, etc. vs the advantage of brass and its better grounding? Does this mean these are circumstances when one would sound better than the other? Thank you.
 
Mar 20, 2019 at 6:03 PM Post #1,605 of 3,873
I am not sure what is meant by single ended. However I do know they Chord recommends the 3.5mm connection and says that is sounds better than the 2.5mm connections espoused by others. And your 3.5mm connectionworh the Kory tube sounded fabulous when I heard it. Tks.

Chord recommends SE because their DAC implementation is very different than the typical off-the-shelf solutions so they don't benefit from a balanced implementation, and the SE measures better than balanced in their designs. A balanced implementation requires more components in the signal path and reduces transparency to the source, and transparency to the source is what the designer is going for. They do provide a balanced output on the higher end desktop gear for convenience to the user. Depending on the gear connected to the balanced output there may or may not be a benefit.

Other gear can benefit greatly from using a balanced topology, either for measurements or desired tuning, depending on the overall design goal. In the end it depends on the implementation and the end goal of the design.
 

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