Cavalli Audio Liquid Fire
Apr 20, 2012 at 4:11 PM Post #1,276 of 2,306
 
Quote:
Also doesn't help that there's a small contingent of individuals bandying words on the supposed shortfalls of the LL, despite never having heard it for themselves in the first place.  That sort of behavior acts to mislead folks, instead of encouraging to form their own impressions.  I feel as though the "old guard" isn't amenable to keeping an open mind, and the LL is more likely ripe for adoption only amongst those who are new to the electrostatics market.

 
As Cacatalysis said, they are more established. Who wants to slap down that kind of money on an amp that's really no better (or worse) than an amp that already has a following.  If the LL was doing something totally incredible that these other amps aren't, than it would be a different story.  However, since it all basically comes from the same roots it's hard not to follow the 'old guard'. Then there's the issue of resale. Which one will be easier to unload if something better comes along, or you just wanted to sell it for cash. For someone like myself, who hasn't heard any of them (not even at a meet), how do you decide which one to pick?  I've ruled out the Woo because of the number of tubes. None of the other amps have reached production yet, so there's really been no feedback (I mean having listen to it for 6 months or longer type of feedback).
 
Apr 20, 2012 at 4:48 PM Post #1,277 of 2,306
It doesn't have to do something incredible - if it was indeed no worse or better than a BHSE it would be a great product for users who would prefer solid state or a one-box solution and don't want to DIY. 
 
Resale would be unpredictable - if there was a first run with a promo price (which there is not) that would mitigate losses should you choose to sell.
 
I agree - very hard to pick. Mini meets with users who have one or all in your area should be a good way.  Manufacturer's allowing 30 day demos like many in the high end DAC market would be even better.
 
Apr 20, 2012 at 5:08 PM Post #1,278 of 2,306
Quote:
As Cacatalysis said, they are more established. Who wants to slap down that kind of money on an amp that's really no better (or worse) than an amp that already has a following.
At the TOTL level, there is no discrete "better" and "worse".  Things are just "different" from one another.  Just because something that "already has a following" is good doesn't mean that everything that comes out after it shouldn't be considered.  And, if the CLL is no better or no worse than anything already out there (meaning it has equivalent performance when compared to the other TOTL e'stat amps on the market), it'd be a no-brainer, as it's cheaper than the WES and BHSE.  You'd be getting similar performance for less money.
 
If the LL was doing something totally incredible that these other amps aren't, than it would be a different story.
If the amp was doing something "totally incredible", it'd be the exception and not the rule.  So every product has to be "the best" or a "giant-killer" to warrant purchase?  If it was "totally incredible", would you be willing to pay more for it?  That would likely garner criticism for it being "overpriced".  At the price point these amps sell at, you're well past the point of diminishing returns, so looking for a huge improvement over what's already out there is an unrealistic expectation.  The way I see it, the LL does something different than other e'stat amps on the market, performs well in all fundamental aspects of sound reproduction, and is priced fairly.  That should be reason enough to take it into consideration.
 
However, since it all basically comes from the same roots it's hard not to follow the 'old guard'.
The "same roots" argument can be applied to much of audio.  There have probably been hundreds of discrete opamp power amps built in the past ten years.  They all use the same fundamental building blocks.  Aside from Class D amps, there hasn't been anything constituting a truly "new design" in many years now.  Everything that comes out is basically just a new take on old an old circuit design.
 
Then there's the issue of resale. Which one will be easier to unload if something better comes along, or you just wanted to sell it for cash.
I can't really speak to this point.  Were I to try to make a point here, it'd be based purely on speculation.  This much we know: The BHSE holds value over time.  I wouldn't expect any of the other TOTL e'stat offerings to be any different, but that's not something I can prove.
 
For someone like myself, who hasn't heard any of them (not even at a meet), how do you decide which one to pick?
Making a blind buy at these price points is absurd.  If somebody wants to go ahead and do that, that's perfectly fine, but those people certainly have bigger stones than I do.  I'd be scared to spend $4-6k on something I haven't heard before.  Are you in the market for a TOTL e'stat amp?  I don't think anybody needs to worry about "which one to pick" until you're ready to throw down for one.
 
I've ruled out the Woo because of the number of tubes. None of the other amps have reached production yet, so there's really been no feedback (I mean having listen to it for 6 months or longer type of feedback).
This argument is cyclical.  Nobody will adopt an amp that doesn't have long-term feedback, and long-term feedback can't exist until people adopt an amp.  If you don't know how good/bad it is yet, why be so quick to dismiss it?  Funny thing is that, though the BHSE is currently in production, you'd still probably be able to get an LL before a BHSE, even though the LL isn't yet in production.

 
Edit: Radio_head beat me to the response, and had some of the same points as me.  Good call.
 
Apr 20, 2012 at 6:10 PM Post #1,279 of 2,306
Amp purchases are subjective, just like anything else audio - so I'm not going to debate anything here. I was just giving you someones perspective of why I've ordered the BSHE (and not any of the other stat amps). One thing I will say though, there are several Headfier's that make audio purchases everyday without the luxury of listening first, including the BHSE. That's part of the reason we're members - because we rely on the opinion of others...
 
Apr 20, 2012 at 6:20 PM Post #1,280 of 2,306
All valid reasons.. at the end of the day, spend your money on whatever will make you happy.
I just don't see why one has to justify their own purchases to someone on the interwebs..
 
Isn't it bad enough most have to justify the purchase to their significant other in the first place :p
 
Apr 20, 2012 at 6:31 PM Post #1,281 of 2,306
 
Quote:
All valid reasons.. at the end of the day, spend your money on whatever will make you happy.
I just don't see why one has to justify their own purchases to someone on the interwebs..
 
Isn't it bad enough most have to justify the purchase to their significant other in the first place :p

 
Not really, because whatever she spends, I spend double.  I'm always encouring her to buy things
happy_face1.gif

 
Apr 20, 2012 at 7:02 PM Post #1,282 of 2,306
 
Quote:
All valid reasons.. at the end of the day, spend your money on whatever will make you happy.
I just don't see why one has to justify their own purchases to someone on the interwebs..
 
Isn't it bad enough most have to justify the purchase to their significant other in the first place :p

 
Hi Sachu,
How are you?
Talked to Alex yesterday and he told me he can send me the LL in time for the June 2nd NYC meet.
It will be a chance for those who are curious about the Liquid Lightining.
Regards,
Erico
 
Apr 20, 2012 at 7:28 PM Post #1,283 of 2,306
 
Quote:
 
 
Hi Sachu,
How are you?
Talked to Alex yesterday and he told me he can send me the LL in time for the June 2nd NYC meet.
It will be a chance for those who are curious about the Liquid Lightining.
Regards,
Erico

 
Hi Erico,
 
AM doing good dude. Just taken a back seat from the whole music listening game.. atleast the serious listening kind for the time being.
 
And that's great news on the LL delivery date. Should be fun indeed to see what folks make of it. Seems like there has always been a demand from Stax owners for alternative options for driving their headphones. Variety is always good.
 
Looking forward to what you make of the LL especially since you are in a very rare and blessed situation to be able to afford all 3 TOTL electrostat amps at the same time. 
 
Enjoy the journey!
 
Cheers,
Sachu
 
Apr 21, 2012 at 6:42 AM Post #1,284 of 2,306
My LF (#67) arrived yesterday in good shape, Robert made sure that it survived the journey to Indian Ocean by packing it well.  I'm still burning it in, but I thought I'd mark the occasion with a few thoughts:
 
  1. Paired with my PS Audio PWD, I think I can finally say that I have a true high-end--possibly end-game--setup.  I had some decent setups in the past, especially taking cost and physical size into account, but I think it's safe to say that I'm finally hearing the LCD-3 at close to its potential.  I had been enjoying my LCD-3, but now with the LF (and on the right recordings) the LCD-3 sounds more full, authoritative, and life-like than I've ever heard.
  2. The LF is bigger than I was hoping, which will make it harder to avoid questions from the spouse about how much it cost.  But I think I'll be telling her the truth when I say that this beautiful (and pricey) piece of equipment will actually save money in the long run, since I can't see myself needing any further upgrades.  And I love the fact that it's a fully-covered design, with the tubes shielded.
  3. I had been contemplating getting an HD-800 as a compliment to the LCD-3, for those times and recordings where I felt the LCD-3 may have been a tad too constricted in its soundstage or less than crystal-clear in its presentation.  I had also wanted a more comfortable headphone for long-term listening; before I sent my LCD-3s back for RMA, my LCD-3s had a brutally tight clamping force and heavy weight.  Post-RMA, the weight is still there, but the new pads (and possibly other tweaks) have made the clamping force less noticeable.  And with the PWD and LF, I'm finding that the LCD-3 doesn't sound deficient with well-recorded music of any genre.  It probably still doesn't match Stax-level clarity (I've only heard the 007 at a meet), but the LCD-3 with the LF has a stunning natural quality that still doesn't feel like details are being smeared. 
 
My headphone audio journey began about 3 years ago with portable audio.  When I started, I never imagined myself spending more than a few hundred dollars in this hobby, but several thousand dollars and countless headphone setups later, I think I can just kick back and enjoy the music without wondering whether there is a better piece of equipment out there.
 
Apr 21, 2012 at 7:28 AM Post #1,285 of 2,306
The point to reach!
Quote:
My LF (#67) arrived yesterday in good shape, Robert made sure that it survived the journey to Indian Ocean by packing it well.  I'm still burning it in, but I thought I'd mark the occasion with a few thoughts:
 
  1. Paired with my PS Audio PWD, I think I can finally say that I have a true high-end--possibly end-game--setup.  I had some decent setups in the past, especially taking cost and physical size into account, but I think it's safe to say that I'm finally hearing the LCD-3 at close to its potential.  I had been enjoying my LCD-3, but now with the LF (and on the right recordings) the LCD-3 sounds more full, authoritative, and life-like than I've ever heard.
  2. The LF is bigger than I was hoping, which will make it harder to avoid questions from the spouse about how much it cost.  But I think I'll be telling her the truth when I say that this beautiful (and pricey) piece of equipment will actually save money in the long run, since I can't see myself needing any further upgrades.  And I love the fact that it's a fully-covered design, with the tubes shielded.
  3. I had been contemplating getting an HD-800 as a compliment to the LCD-3, for those times and recordings where I felt the LCD-3 may have been a tad too constricted in its soundstage or less than crystal-clear in its presentation.  I had also wanted a more comfortable headphone for long-term listening; before I sent my LCD-3s back for RMA, my LCD-3s had a brutally tight clamping force and heavy weight.  Post-RMA, the weight is still there, but the new pads (and possibly other tweaks) have made the clamping force less noticeable.  And with the PWD and LF, I'm finding that the LCD-3 doesn't sound deficient with well-recorded music of any genre.  It probably still doesn't match Stax-level clarity (I've only heard the 007 at a meet), but the LCD-3 with the LF has a stunning natural quality that still doesn't feel like details are being smeared. 
 
My headphone audio journey began about 3 years ago with portable audio.  When I started, I never imagined myself spending more than a few hundred dollars in this hobby, but several thousand dollars and countless headphone setups later, I think I can just kick back and enjoy the music without wondering whether there is a better piece of equipment out there.

 
 
 
Apr 21, 2012 at 11:34 PM Post #1,286 of 2,306
So I finally picked up a new copy of The Wall after over 10 years of not owning one. It's pretty amazing with this combo I'm running lately. Really makes me want to just break down and buy the whole Experience box...
 
I'll definitely be spending some private time during my day off tomorrow with the LF and The Wall. Might even watch the movie again tomorrow, too.
 
Apr 22, 2012 at 8:56 AM Post #1,287 of 2,306
Meh. I bought the box. Was not worth it, imho.
What did i get for my hard earned money? A scarf, some drinking coasters, and a weird golf ball sized sphere.
How 'bout a bluray performance? how 'bout the album in 5.1? Nope.
 
Apr 22, 2012 at 9:48 AM Post #1,288 of 2,306
Meh. I bought the box. Was not worth it, imho.
What did i get for my hard earned money? A scarf, some drinking coasters, and a weird golf ball sized sphere.
How 'bout a bluray performance? how 'bout the album in 5.1? Nope.


No no the Experience 14 disc set. I don't have all their albums but I love Pink Floyd...
 

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