[hakunamakaka]

Yet I still hear a substantial difference between apple dongle and my desktop DAC. I can even tell apart when I use different sources on the same DAC. Even with something like HD650 difference is noticeable, but gets very evident with highly resolving headphones

 

[Wes S]

Yes, but not always.

Some DACs which are incredibly similar, such as the Gustard X18 and Gustard X26 Pro, I cannot tell a difference between the two in a blind test.

Others I can but it will be dependent on the music, with some particular tracks showing a particular characteristic of a DAC more and making it easier.

And some DACs it's extremely easy to tell a difference between.

This is the perfect answer.

 

[MickBenjamins]

You're asking people if the money they spent on an expensive piece of gear is justified, of course they will say they can hear the difference

 

[Orangutan]

I voted 'No' but I would like to emphasize that I have had only experience with the following:

Desktop:
Schiit Modi
Topping D30 pro balanced
Massdrop SDAC Single Ended

Portable:
ifi Hip-Dac
Fiio Q1Mk2

I am open to the idea that all the DACs I have so far owned just sounded same and maybe I could pick up difference in much significant differences in different chips or designs.

 

[iFi audio]

No, all circuits inside a DAC can impact the analogue signal they output but not necessarily the sound, because there is no sound

I don't think this is factually correct. That analogue signal is what you'll eventually hear. It'll get amplified and speakers/headphones will simply show what it is

Even a $9 DAC can easily exceed audibly perfect fidelity, any other DAC, even a massively more expensive DAC, can only do one of three things: 1. Achieve the same level of audible fidelity. 2. Achieve better absolute fidelity but is not audibly different or 3. Achieve audibly worse fidelity.

I'm not sure how many DACs have you heard, but the odds are that a $9 DAC compared to a $3'500 device that measures very similarly still would make a noticeably different sound in the same setup.

Again, all those things are perceptions, not the actual performance of DACs.

Just to be clear, measurements are useful as extra data points and there's certainly place for them (internally we do a TON of them to know whether our circuits are in check), but to many users who compare DACs these perceptions reflect their actual performance.

I know that contradicting a manufacturer or advertiser with the facts/science, outside of the Sound Science forum will eventually get this post deleted and me banned from the thread but at least until then:

As long as we can keep the conversation civilized you should be OK

"transparent and faithful sound reproduction actually means" - "Fidelity", which in spoken language is defined as how well the output signal of a device matches it's input signal but is also defined mathematically and is relatively easily measured (with a Null Test for example). So, it is not subjective, does not vary from one user to another and the only relevant "different reference points" are absolute fidelity and audible fidelity. Therefore ...

For a second there I thought that you had something entirely different in mind and related to an artist's intention etc. As for measuring tests, they're objective in the sense that you end up with numbers you can compare, but the question is what to do with that info then. If that's the primary factor for you to consider a specific DAC, that's perfectly fine, but many of us here would still like to actually listen to it and see whether we like it in our setups or not

 

[Wes S]

I don't think this is factually correct. That analogue signal is what you'll eventually hear. It'll get amplified and speakers/headphones will simply show what it is



I'm not sure how many DACs have you heard, but the odds are that a $9 DAC compared to a $3'500 device that measures very similarly still would make a noticeably different sound in the same setup.



Just to be clear, measurements are useful as extra data points and there's certainly place for them, but to many users who compare DACs these perceptions reflect their actual performance.



As long as we can keep the conversation civilized you should be OK



For a second there I thought that you had something entirely different in mind and related to an artist's intention etc. As for measuring tests, they're objective in the sense that you end up with numbers you can compare, but the question is what to do with that info then. If that's the primary factor to for you to consider a specific DAC, that's perfectly fine, but many of us here would still like to actually listen to it and see whether we like it in our setups or not

Well said.

 

[reggiegasket]

I had a Qutest on loan and as good as the built in DAC is I bought a Qutest straight away. I've splashed out on a LPS for the Qutest too that seems to help as well.

I'm also exploring a LPS for the Qutest. I even made myself a IEC powercord today ready for it
Which LPS did you get DJW50?

 

[ST33L]

I heard a difference going from Schiit Modi to RME ADI-2, but it certainly wasn’t night and day.

 

[iFi audio]

I heard a difference going from Schiit Modi to RME ADI-2, but it certainly wasn’t night and day.

It often isn't

 

[ST33L]

It often isn't

I guess my point was that some might expect a $1,000 DAC to be 10x better as the cost is 10x more (compared to the Modi), but it’s usually only fractionally better. To me, 5% better is worth 10x more, but others might value it differently.

Edit: I guess the same can be said with most equipment, including headphones and amps as well.

 

[The Jester]

There’s an active 39 page thread in the sound science forum discussing the same technical points as the last couple of pages, “DAC Difference” so maybe leave this thread more in tune with the OP “ Can you hear a difference between DAC’s” ?

 

[Dawgfish]

I can easily hear a difference. No doubt about it. I hear it and I'm not about to let anybody tell me I'm not hearing what I hear. I will not argue about this. Period.

 

[AnakChan]

Terms of Service which you all agreed to when you all signed up with Head-Fi :-

Posting Etiquette

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5. If what you want to post includes words/phrases like "placebo," "expectation bias," "ABX," "blind testing," etc., please post it in the Sound Science forum.
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This thread is a survey. Feel free to reply to YOUR experience, but beyond that bring it to the Sound Science forum instead.

 

[dankthropod]

I can tell the difference between external DAC and no DAC, but not between DACs, probably because I'm still in mid-fi tier. The sound is fuller, soundstage is bigger, and imaging is more precise. I usually like using songs with big soundstage, vocals, and lots of things happening at the same time. My song for listening to a specific DAC is Thriller by MJ. Night and day with internal and external dacs.

 

[paulrbarnard]

I have four DACs and they all sound different with the same headphones. It's the analogue bit after the D2A that makes the majority of the difference not really the converter itself. The whole analogue chain through to your ears can respond differently with a different matching of filtering, amplification, cables, pads, whatever. It is virtually impossible to eliminate all of that from the listening for differences equation.

Of course if you add in DSP then it all changes again.