Campfire - Solaris
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Rockwell75

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even the most faithful reproductions of a sound wave may be interpreted differently by two different brains, as the process of turning the information back into "music" in the head is a very unique and personal one for each listener, and is coloured by their own personal hearing efficiencies/deficiencies and preferences. I agree that you can use measurements to validate some absolute facts about a headphone, but as you say, the rigour and the means required to do that is beyond the means of most on this site bar a very select few (I'm definitely not one of them!).
This is a deep and far-reaching point and it contains the essence of why all attempts to root sound impressions in objectivity are doomed to fail at this point. Human perception consists of three major phases. A signal of some sort exists in the world and is transmitted to our sense organs, which then break it down and ship it to our brains. This is phase one. Phase two consists of our brains reassembling the signal and presenting it to our consciousness. Lastly there is phase 3 where our consciousness receives the signal and forms an impression of it. In terms of the current state of science we have a very firm grasp of phase one but we have next to no idea what's going on with phase two or three. Despite what fundamentalists may claim subjective consciousness is still a fundamental mystery as far as science is concerned and this hobby is one area where that really becomes apparent. We all perceive and form impressions-- even of objective phenomena-- in a unique and individualized way. When it's related to something as deeply affecting as our favorite music this adds yet another layer of complexity to the whole thing. For me personally the key is to not put too much stock in any one person or source and get as much information as I can and interpret it relative to my own needs and sensibilities...and of course absolutely nothing takes the place of actually listening to something for yourself. In terms of the list makers the only one who imho has proven himself to be consistently objective and relatively unbiased is Toranku.
 
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cr3ativ3

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For me it's less a matter of believing IEMs can compete with full size cans in terms of sound, staging etc. and more about the fact that I'm not cut out for the latter. Most of my listening is done on the go and I've never been comfortable wearing full size headphones-- not sure if it's the shape of my head or a just a simple tolerance issue. Suffice to say IEMs are the way to go for me. That said I'm going to be in Manhattan for a few days next week and one of my plans is to stop by Audio 46 and hopefully demo a few IEMs, in particular the Z1R so I can finally form my own impressions.
please share your impressions / compairsons to soalris , if you stop there :)
 
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Rockwell75

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please share your impressions / compairsons to soalris , if you stop there :)
Of course. In all honesty the Z1R is going to have to be pretty other-worldly to top the Solaris through the N6ii...but I'm eager to try it. Audio 46 also carries the Jomo Trinity, which I'm also hoping to demo.
 
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For me it's less a matter of believing IEMs can compete with full size cans in terms of sound, staging etc. and more about the fact that I'm not cut out for the latter. Most of my listening is done on the go and I've never been comfortable wearing full size headphones-- not sure if it's the shape of my head or a just a simple tolerance issue. Suffice to say IEMs are the way to go for me. That said I'm going to be in Manhattan for a few days next week and one of my plans is to stop by Audio 46 and hopefully demo a few IEMs, in particular the Z1R so I can finally form my own impressions.
Yeah I'm honestly not a headphone guy and prefer iems as well. I can do the dishes and chores much easier with iems. Plus better for travel as well.
 
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rutter

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From my experience the different qualities to putting together an actually worthwhile headphone are there. All of the stuff you people try to think of in rationalizing what you do is nonsense. The problem is each expensive headphone I've tried has trade-offs. This should not be the case at these prices. The only real reason why they would keep failing to put the package together is if these qualities are mutually exclusive in design and production. Of course none of you clowns get to this point, you just look for every excuse you can find.

Such headphones should already exist. Maybe Abyss at $5000. But they are out of reach of even most of the weirdos here. Maybe very expensive and similarly out of reach DACs and amps to a large extent get you there.

The thing is I see an illogical behavior over and over again. There's a set of positive words in head audio. They are common in probably every product thread, weakly correlated with price and quality. Meaning you people just flock to the threads of whatever you have and make it sound good and worthwhile. Except in other threads you see a much different proportion of negative words being used to describe the product. It's like you step into a different world. To make things more confusing higher tiers don't even bother mentioning lower tier products much if at all.

The point is this whole forum is a delusion/self-serving echo chamber that is unsustainable logically from a bird's eye view. It's too predictable in ways that are impossible to correspond to the truth. This is one of the reasons why I get annoyed seeing excuse after excuse. You can get exploited this way.
 
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Rockwell75

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Yeah I'm honestly not a headphone guy and prefer iems as well. I can do the dishes and chores much easier with iems. Plus better for travel as well.
For sure...and not to mention that with IEMs all you need is a single good source that can typically fit in your pocket. Not having to mess (and pay for) separate DACs, amps, preamps etc. is a huge plus. Furthermore, as much as it may baffle some, listening to my current IEM setup leaves nothing lacking for me. Maybe it's an ignorance is bliss thing but, sound-wise, I'm totally content with what I have right now and I'm not at all nursing an itch for "next level" fidelity that will compel me towards a larger full size setup in order to scratch it.
 
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rutter

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For sure...and not to mention that with IEMs all you need is a single good source that can typically fit in your pocket. Not having to mess (and pay for) separate DACs, amps, preamps etc. is a huge plus. Furthermore, as much as it may baffle some, listening to my current IEM setup leaves nothing lacking for me. Maybe it's an ignorance is bliss thing but, sound-wise, I'm totally content with what I have right now and I'm not at all nursing an itch for "next level" fidelity that will compel me towards a larger full size setup in order to scratch it.
You were saying the same stuff with the ZX300. I see you have something different now. At least you removed "endgame" from your signature. Did you upgrade the cable too? How did that go?
 
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From my experience the different qualities to putting together an actually worthwhile headphone are there. All of the stuff you people try to think of in rationalizing what you do is nonsense. The problem is each expensive headphone I've tried has trade-offs. This should not be the case at these prices. The only real reason why they would keep failing to put the package together is if these qualities are mutually exclusive in design and production. Of course none of you clowns get to this point, you just look for every excuse you can find.

Such headphones should already exist. Maybe Abyss at $5000. But they are out of reach of even most of the weirdos here. Maybe very expensive and similarly out of reach DACs and amps to a large extent get you there.

The thing is I see an illogical behavior over and over again. There's a set of positive words in head audio. They are common in probably every product thread, weakly correlated with price and quality. Meaning you people just flock to the threads of whatever you have and make it sound good and worthwhile. Except in other threads you see a much different proportion of negative words being used to describe the product. It's like you step into a different world. To make things more confusing higher tiers don't even bother mentioning lower tier products much if at all.

The point is this whole forum is a delusion/self-serving echo chamber that is unsustainable logically from a bird's eye view. It's too predictable in ways that are impossible to correspond to the truth. This is one of the reasons why I get annoyed seeing excuse after excuse. You can get exploited this way.
I've listened to half a million dollar full size speaker setups and they do some things mind blowingly well, just stunning. At the same time a speaker that is 2000 dollars using different tech will do something those speakers can't touch.
Generating sound out of boxes, iems, headphones is a flawed way to reproduce music, even 5K headphones will disappoint you if you approach them expecting perfection. There are plenty of 5K headphones that I have listened to that left me scratching my head, thinking what the hell people are paying that money for.

Outside of having the band play live in your living room, everything is a bit of a compromise.
 
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rutter

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Given what you're describing it sounds like speakers would make you scratch your head even more.

I don't know why but I really dislike the idea of speakers in general.
 
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Rockwell75

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You were saying the same stuff with the ZX300. I see you have something different now. At least you removed "endgame" from your signature. Did you upgrade the cable too? How did that go?
Yes I was and I know it seems to be playing right in to this pessimistic perspective of yours that we're all a bunch of willfully deluded nitwits who should be demanding a lot more than what we're getting and not at all satisfied with what we have...but such are things. I wrote a review of the N6ii (in my signature) that goes in to detail about my transition from the ZX300 to the N6ii so I won't rehash too much of it here. Suffice to say it amounts to my willingness to drop a bunch of money for a subtle increase in quality. Call me deluded but I'm loving it. I was satisfied with the ZX300 and it was actually its crap playlist functionality (not its sound) that got me looking at other DAPs. When I took the plunge on the N6ii I realized that 1) Solaris' DD responds very well to extra power, 2) Cayin gives a warmish tint to the tuning of their DAPs, slightly boosts the low end and smooths out the top and this combo of 1) and 2) was a perfect match for Solaris relative to my tastes and preferences. In an earlier post you mocked the idea of high end audio being a "hobby"...well for some of us this yellow brick road along which experience subtle variations in sound quality through experiencing different gear is very much a hobby. I am happy with what I have at the moment but I know there will come a time when I crave something new simply for variety. I know you think this is crazy in terms of cost but I have friends who spend way more on things like rifles and equipment to hand roll their own ammunition, who collect guitars they hardly play, mountain bikes they hardly ride, who collect art that sits in their living rooms. Hell many of my friends will spend way more money at the bar or eating out than I will on audio equipment this year. Does any of this matter? Not as long as nobody gets hurt and all these people find some sort of satisfaction or fulfillment in what they're doing...and I certainly am.

Edit: No I didn't go crazy on cables-- I'm running the stock Solaris cable with a 4.4mm termination.
 
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Rich people in essence? That's interesting... what are they "rolling" ammunition for, lol?
 
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Rockwell75

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rutter

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It doesn't in my case, lol. I was referring to the stuff your friends get that seems to be going to waste.
 
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rutter

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Edit: No I didn't go crazy on cables-- I'm running the stock Solaris cable with a 4.4mm termination.
Isn't the super litz the one that costs $50 more? Is the one I'm thinking of the super duper litz?
 
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Rockwell75

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Isn't the super litz the one that costs $50 more? Is the one I'm thinking of the super duper litz?
I'm not sure...the Super Litz comes stock with Solaris. The pure silver cable that comes with Atlas is an extra $50...and there are a number of cables a lot more expensive than that.
 
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