[jmills8]

This brings up a good point.

If the manufacturer is going to ship an unfinished product (in this case the manufacturer openly stated that the IEM requires burn-in to sound as per design) then they should at least provide instructions for how to get the product to a finished state.

I know many people will roll their eyes and say I'm just being pedantic, but that's probably because you've been in the game too long and have learned to put up with all the shortcomings of the service you are getting from this industry.

People have been saying this since 2014.

 

[fokta]

hmm.. I do my burn in by listening to it when I was driving... beside me when sleeping, and working.
Laptop and X5iii is always powering....

Just make the fun of it..... is it effective or not... I don't Care.. I am enjoying it

 

[candlejack]

You bet I am rolling my eyes...

I don’t see how the Solaris is an unfinished product, or else you consider all manufacturers aside a few exception like Audeze (for their TOTL products) to ship unfinished products...

For example the JVC FW10000 I just got is not burnt in and I think it requires it to sound its best, more so than the Solaris by the way. Not sure Sony will burn in the IER-Z1R either..

It comes as no surprise to me that you, David, would be among those rolling their eyes. You tend to be an apologist, while I tend to be a critic. I respect your opinion, but I don't agree with it.

My remark was not targeted at the Solaris or CA. It was a general remark. The only reason to make the remark here is because Ken himself recommended 100+ hours of burn-in. I don't know if other manufacturers have made this kind of statements, but what I said certainly doesn't apply to just CA.

 

[fuhransahis]

It comes as no surprise to me that you, David, would be among those rolling their eyes. You tend to be an apologist, while I tend to be a critic. I respect your opinion, but I don't agree with it.

My remark was not targeted at the Solaris or CA. It was a general remark. The only reason to make the remark here is because Ken himself recommended 100+ hours of burn-in. I don't know if other manufacturers have made this kind of statements, but what I said certainly doesn't apply to just CA.

Seems like you're more salty than you are a critic.

Plenty of reasons have been given as to why they don't burn in at the factory - they are a small shop, it could be a strain on resources and require more of those resources, which could then affect pricing and/or shipping lead times and increase a whole new QC check that could in itself have some errors for them to worry about. Amongst others.

 

[candlejack]

Seems like you're more salty than you are a critic.

Plenty of reasons have been given as to why they don't burn in at the factory - they are a small shop, it could be a strain on resources and require more of those resources, which could then affect pricing and/or shipping lead times and increase a whole new QC check that could in itself have some errors for them to worry about. Amongst others.

I am not crying over this, I assure you.

However, I do find it counterproductive when the customer would rather make excuses for a company (like you just did), than demand a higher quality product.

But I also know that, when something is not the quality you would like it to be, there are two ways to keep your happiness:
a) try to improve that thing,
b) convince yourself it's perfect the way it is.

This principle applies to way more than audio gear, of course. We do this every time we look in the mirror.

Anyway, I don't want to make burn-in seem like a huge issue. It would certainly not stop me from buying something I like otherwise. But it's something I would like to see the manufacturers start doing more often. It just seems like the professional approach.

 

[fuhransahis]

I am not crying over this, I assure you.

However, I do find it counterproductive when the customer would rather make excuses for a company (like you just did), than demand a higher quality product.

But I also know that, when something is not the quality you would like it to be, there are two ways to keep your happiness:
a) try to improve that thing,
b) convince yourself it's perfect the way it is.

This principle applies to way more than audio gear, of course. We do this every time we look in the mirror.

Anyway, I don't want to make burn-in seem like a huge issue. It would certainly not stop me from buying something I like otherwise. But it's something I would like to see the manufacturers start doing more often. It just seems like the professional approach.

Not saying you're crying, saying you seem to be inclined towards the negative side of all arguments.

You are mislabeling reasons for why things are the way they are as being excuses for certain faults, which is not the point. I'm saying I am happy to make the tradeoff where I am happy to partake in the burning in process so that Campfire can keep their prices at their relatively reasonable pricepoint and so that I wouldn't have to wait longer for them to potentially ship it, so on and so forth.

They are not yet at the scale of Audeze who can afford to burn in without increasing prices.

You frame yourself as taking a high road, but really it's just a salty road.

 

[bluebair]

Hey guys, no need to argue/insult. I feel that there are some good points on both sides here!

I know if burn in is recommended, I am one who wouldve liked instructions on how to do it. It is not something I've done before, I ended up playing it over night at a moderate volume with some of my favorite albums. Although it was difficult to find an agreement even on how to burn in, so that is why manufacture instructions for their reccomendations would be appreciated.

 

[davidmolliere]

I know if burn in is recommended, I am one who wouldve liked instructions on how to do it. It is not something I've done before, I ended up playing it over night at a moderate volume with some of my favorite albums. Although it was difficult to find an agreement even on how to burn in, so that is why manufacture instructions for their recomendations would be appreciated.

I don’t know many manufacturer that do provide instructions for burn in, as the subject is so controversial... I know I didn’t believe in burn in until I actually heard the difference with some gear. My early IEMs were BA didn’t notice any burn in but dynamic drivers for sure need burn in, some more than others (carbon coated / diamond like coating the most). Same for DAPs, before Sony DAPs and their capacitors I never experienced burn in before... so YMMV there is no absolute rule.

And the way you do it works, that how I did it and on headfi some people suggested pink noise, why not... the cascade file I linked to is a mix of pink and white noise with octave sweeps so basically the same occurs with music but maybe more so with that kind of content that does rapid changes of high amplitude. We don’t have the end word on this as science needs to further study what does occur in electronic and physical components over time including at the microscopic level and how (if) it affects sound. I sure hear a difference, if you do too well do burn in

 

[kingkikapu]

There's a warranty. Do your own burn in.

Just like you do with nearly everything manufactured with mechanical components on this planet.

Back on topic please. Leave the science to the scientists.

 

[andybo]

Now i have tried diverse tipps once again with Solaris. Comply TX400 had the best isolation und great fit for me in M. Unfortunately there is to lot of bass and the sound to dark. Its a bit muffled. CA stock foam tips there is a bit a problem with the fit and the solaris. Sometimes i must adjust the fit. But the sound is not exactly the some how the Comply TX400. Here you here a little bit more treble and a bit less bass. For me its the ideal sound signature . Isolation ist not as great als Comply but also good enough. Then Symbio W: Uff. Lot of treble energy and treble texture but a bit less bass than the other two. Great soundstage. Sound ist brighter and with more energy. Not for silbant recordings. Less bass makes the sound a bit thinner but airyer. With the Symbio W you have an IEM Sennheiser HD800.. But now i can here myself when the people say Comply Foams makes the sound muffled. CA stock form tips are the compromiss between Comply and Symbio W. My preferd tipps in case of sound quality. But i have tried the TX 400 with the wax guard. Could be that the normal T400 is less muffled. On classical recordings the Symbio W are my favorite tipps. They are also confortable and had good isolation. Now i must try spiral dots but i think the isolation is not as great how the 3 tips here . Unfortunaltely the reviewers often do not say what for tips they youse. Then the differences in sound signature is a lot. With the Comply the foam is more in the ear than with the CA stock tips. But this makes the sound a bit muffled.. I wish tips with the isolation and confort of the Comply but with less muffled sound.

 

[candlejack]

I'm saying I am happy to make the tradeoff where I am happy to partake in the burning in process so that Campfire can keep their prices at their relatively reasonable pricepoint and so that I wouldn't have to wait longer for them to potentially ship it, so on and so forth.

So you're happy to trade convenience for price. Nothing wrong with that. But it's not an option and you have no idea how much you're actually saving. It's not like you can choose between:
A. raw headphones for $X,
B. burned-in headphones for $X + $10.

People regularly pay extra for overnight shipping just to have their object of desire as soon as possible. I've seen people here get a new pair of headphones and not listen to them for a week while they were burning in. They effectively received them one week later. If you're happy to accept this penalty, it's your right, but I hope you can acknowledge that it's not a trivial issue.

Furthermore, to take your logic a step further: I would really like it (no joke) if I could get just the parts of the IEM and then build them myself at home to save (let's say) 40% of the current price. Since these companies are so concerned about keeping money in our pockets and delivering us the goods asap, they should give us this option, shouldn't they? I know this is a bit absurd, because we would need some measuring equipment to validate how good a job we did, etc. and, more importantly, because their whole business model would collapse.

The point is that if a company does something it's because it's in its own interest, not the consumer's. In the ideal case the two do not conflict and both parties win, but we shouldn't be naive. The reason why more companies are not doing the burn-in in house is because it benefits them to not do it and consumers are willing to put up with it.

You frame yourself as taking a high road, but really it's just a salty road.

You can see me any way you like. I am not always right, but I always come here in good faith.

 

[geagle]

But it's not an option and you have no idea how much you're actually saving. It's not like you can choose between:
A. raw headphones for $X,
B. burned-in headphones for $X + $10.

Personally, I'd LOVE to get my IEMs already burned in (=sounding exactly like the manufacturer intends them to, long-term) for an additional $10... I do doubt that that would cover the manufacturer's extra costs, though (but I might be wrong, of course). It WOULD defintely be great if that were an option one could choose.

 

[Music junky]

I ended up going back to 3.5mm . from 4.4mm.pent. on my Solaris and the Atlas . The sound is cleaner and smoother.

 

[Lookout57]

I got this Lunashop silver cable from @Dsnuts recommendation and...this thing literally doesn't work, as in there no sound coming out from one side of it...

I'm not sure if I will even bother sending it back to China. The cable does look nice though, and supple too.

Just left it here for anyone who considering buying it. I mean I doubt this happen on all of their cable but still...

I just got that cable last week. My only complaint was that I couldn't tell which MMCX was the right and what was the left. I left a message and they responded quickly that the right MMCX has a slightly indented band on the cover for the MMCX. I suggested that they add that to the description.

Other than that it's a good cable for the money. I'm in the process of documenting how it and my other 5 balanced cables (CA Copper Litz, CA Silver Litz, CA Ref 8, CA SXC 8, Lunashop Silver and Effect Eros II+ 8 wire) sound on the Polaris, Vega, Andromeda White, Atlas and Solaris.

 

[Audiophonicalistic]

Burning in is easy. Idk what the big deal is. All my iems have sounded better after burn in even before I knew what burn in was on my shure 215. Even my cheap speakers from amazon benefited from a few hour burn in. In the end its about how it sounds! Besides burning in is fun. I love listening to the small changes I think its cool and actually prefer it. I'm sure many like me think its fun to listen along the way lol.