[Blaze182]

I’m really enjoying my Solaris

 

[Jackpot77]

I'm really enjoying mine too. Trying to find time in the Christmas break to finish up my review, but the general gist will be that I really enjoy the sound. These AREN'T ultra-detail monsters, these AREN'T the bassiest / most sparkling IENs out there, and they WON'T be the golden bullet for absolutely everyone. For me PERSONALLY, given my preferences in terms of sound, they are the most rounded and accomplished tuning I've spent time with, and are worth considering if you ate in tbe market for an IEM in this price bracket.

The real differentiator for me is the dimensionality they give the sound - I think @Currawong nailed it a few pages back when he said that he needs to listen to other review gear first, otherwise it sounds flat. The Sokaris just have something to the sound (tuning or technicality) that makes it sound more real to my ears.

As I said, this won't be for everyone - there are tweaks to the FR which I'm not rickety enough to understand or explain that high make the unique sound and give it the dips wyd that some people dislike. That's the way it should be - this is an all-rounder of an IEM, but it's still only one company's take on it.

Regarding QC, no issues I can perceive with mine, and they sound broadly like others are describing it here. I'm planning on getting a MiniDSP EARalS rig at some point in the next few weeks, so once I've got that I'll take a shot at measuring mine using their supplied calibration and see what it looks like collared to the other graphs posted. I'm not a graphs and numbers guy as I think stuff like phase and ear geometry plays as much a part in how gear sounds as the basic FR so I probably won't be posting much up, but will be interested to take a look and add another data point to the discussion.

 

[ezekiel77]

If anyone in charge is listening I'd love to review this. Controversy=readers.

Call me?

 

[AxelCloris]

Thank you everyone for your patience while we worked to clean up the thread. We know this one took a while and we apologize for the inconvenience. Thank you again for understanding. We do ask that everyone please keep the discussion about the Solaris and not each other. Thanks all!

 

[KB]

Dear All,

We wanted to of course respond to this discussion of Solaris measurement variation posted on Reddit, and shed some light on the topic.

We are a 100%-hand-built-in-Portland-Oregon company with highly trained craftspeople. Our builders are very meticulous about everything they do and take great pride in everything they make. Campfire is a close-knit team of 17 people, and the same six builders build everything by hand.

We build in small batches, and yes there are some slight variations from batch to batch, all of which is closely monitored. We use four state-of-the-art measuring systems with Brüel & Kjær measurement microphones to track and maintain QC through the build all the way to final left-right pairing. With these processes, our pairings are far tighter than most IEM companies. (Like many other companies, we also test the products of competitors.) Everything we build passes a full frequency response measurement test before being paired left-to-right to make one set. This is all done individually by hand, and we pair them individually to try and achieve +/- 1dB between left and right. Left-right pairing to us is critical, so we take a lot of time and effort to make sure these pairings are tight.

As for the measured units on Reddit, we primarily trust our measurements over others. Measuring IEMs consistently can be challenging, and while we can’t know an independent measurer’s measurement setup and methods, we do know ours. We have been doing our own measurements for years, and we use industry standard measurement and analysis gear by Brüel & Kjær, GRAS, Crysound, Audio Precision, and Listen (SoundCheck). We feel that the issue brought up has been somewhat mischaracterized in subsequent posts. The poster was trying to determine if his grading was “A+, A or A-“ We are aware that dynamic hybrid designs will have some slight variations from batch to batch more so than a balanced armature design. However again we monitor this very closely and have strict controls so every Solaris sounds as it should.

Further, while we test all of our IEMs here during and after assembly, we cannot account for everything that happens to them once they are out of our hands. The tested IEMs were all used demo units, and while we can assume they are okay, we cannot know for certain.

We are 100% confident that the IEMs we craft and send to our customers are going to sound as they were designed to. We also back our products with a return policy that we are proud to say is used by very few who buy our products. We also have an open-door policy, a phone number where you can reach us to talk to us, and we do our best to cultivate and maintain a high level of brand loyalty, customer trust, and satisfaction.

Sincerely,

Ken Ball

 

[Currawong]

I'm really not sure that his methods are all that accurate.

This is his measurement rig, taken from: https://imgur.com/e1JJvvS



It is most definitely not a professional set-up. While it's appreciable that he goes to the effort to measure IEMs, with the literal mountain of possible causes of variations when measuring gear in shops with such a set-up, there's really nothing to discuss about them, at least for me. I might ask if he at least performed the same measurement multiple times to ensure consistency.

Really, I'd more value the comment about different units sounding slightly different. That issue has come up with many headphones too.

Edit: I talked to crinacle about it and asked him to post a reply with what he said.

 

[Dithyrambes]

He performed repeat measurements and got consistent results over burn in for weeks according to his post on reddit. Whether it's the ultimate correct measurement isn't as important as all three consistently measuring differently in my opinion.

 

[Penguino]

Dear All,

We wanted to of course respond to this discussion of Solaris measurement variation posted on Reddit, and shed some light on the topic.

We are a 100%-hand-built-in-Portland-Oregon company with highly trained craftspeople. Our builders are very meticulous about everything they do and take great pride in everything they make. Campfire is a close-knit team of 17 people, and the same six builders build everything by hand.

We build in small batches, and yes there are some slight variations from batch to batch, all of which is closely monitored. We use four state-of-the-art measuring systems with Brüel & Kjær measurement microphones to track and maintain QC through the build all the way to final left-right pairing. With these processes, our pairings are far tighter than most IEM companies. (Like many other companies, we also test the products of competitors.) Everything we build passes a full frequency response measurement test before being paired left-to-right to make one set. This is all done individually by hand, and we pair them individually to try and achieve +/- 1dB between left and right. Left-right pairing to us is critical, so we take a lot of time and effort to make sure these pairings are tight.

As for the measured units on Reddit, we primarily trust our measurements over others. Measuring IEMs consistently can be challenging, and while we can’t know an independent measurer’s measurement setup and methods, we do know ours. We have been doing our own measurements for years, and we use industry standard measurement and analysis gear by Brüel & Kjær, GRAS, Crysound, Audio Precision, and Listen (SoundCheck). We feel that the issue brought up has been somewhat mischaracterized in subsequent posts. The poster was trying to determine if his grading was “A+, A or A-“ We are aware that dynamic hybrid designs will have some slight variations from batch to batch more so than a balanced armature design. However again we monitor this very closely and have strict controls so every Solaris sounds as it should.

Further, while we test all of our IEMs here during and after assembly, we cannot account for everything that happens to them once they are out of our hands. The tested IEMs were all used demo units, and while we can assume they are okay, we cannot know for certain.

We are 100% confident that the IEMs we craft and send to our customers are going to sound as they were designed to. We also back our products with a return policy that we are proud to say is used by very few who buy our products. We also have an open-door policy, a phone number where you can reach us to talk to us, and we do our best to cultivate and maintain a high level of brand loyalty, customer trust, and satisfaction.

Sincerely,

Ken Ball

If Crin's measurements aren't good enough you should release your own. You have the best rig and definitely the best sample size possible. 100 unique units with your rig should be plenty to dispel this whole situation.

 

[davidmolliere]

Looks like we’re circling back to the same argument, I am in there with @Currawong though (glad to see the reasoning I had earlier is not that preposterous...).

Two things :

• Why not send back the units that have been measured to Campfire so that they can measure them with a professional rig?

• If there is a real issue then other reports will pop up

Last but not least why have those units not been sent back as defective to Campfire to confirm that there is a problem and also importantly identify the cause?

Until then it’s going to be consistency vs accuracy debate all over again. Not productive.

I hope we are not we going to see again a pattern of low post count users that never posted before (or mainly here the first time around derailing the thread), almost instantly liked by fresh new users and then re-used by other identical type of users a few minutes after to fuel the fire? (The post above is pretty similar to the pattern yesterday)

 

[tusing]

Hi, Ken. Thanks for your response.

For context, I've been an avid Campfire customer. I think the Andromeda is an IEM that is simply sublime - sonic gold - an instantly lovable signature with incredible tonality. There is no doubt that you have tremendous hand-built craftsmanship, and I'm sure that you put a ton of care into the subjective aspects of their IEMs.

However, I'm also an engineer, and I'm hesitant to trust statements on words and emotion alone. Crinacle is a well-respected IEM measurer throughout the community, and he has demonstrated consistency across individual measurements quite a few times. And while you mention that there will be "slight variations" across each individual Solaris, the measurements that Crinacle has taken show a huge difference between IEMs, to the point where each IEM measures consistently with respect to itself while measuring completely different from the others.

It's great to know that you have a solid measurement rig. As the data shows, Crinacle does too. But otherwise, your post doesn't really... say anything of substance, to put it bluntly. Of course you put care into your products, of course you match drivers. But words and speculation can only take us so far, and the actual data is as close to the ground truth as we'll ever get.

Objectively speaking, the only way to resolve this whole dispute is for CA show their own measurements - consistent ones, across units. If you trust your product, this should not be a problem. You already have the measurements, as you mentioned. And the community as a whole would be far better off if more manufacturers publicized their measurements.

 

[davidmolliere]

I am not sure what publishing all the Solaris measurement data would resolve at all.

I am still totally confused as to why supposedly defective units are not sent back to Campfire so that we really know what this is about, this is the only way to « resolve » this issue. Isn’t that what you do when you have a defective unit?

Until then nobody can do any sort of contradictory measurement so we’ll be running in circles. Not to mention if there is indeed a consistency issue at least Campfire would get to the bottom of the reason for it. Really no reason not to, or do I miss something? And preferably as fast as possible.

Given the discrepancy that is measured, this would be very apparent to anyone from an audition as well and this would have popped up already...

 

[Kitechaser]

If the units are defective, send them back.
What good does it do to anyone to hold onto "defective" units? Are they still being demoed?
Also why wasn't campfire audio contacted when this was first spotted, instead on blowing it up all over reddit like it was a tabloid scoop?
Fishy, just fishy. What these people in singapore are doing is unprofessional, and makes very little sense.

 

[tusing]

I am not sure what publishing all the Solaris measurement data would resolve at all.

I am still totally confused as to why supposedly defective units are not sent back so that we really know what this is about, this is the only way to « resolve » this issue.

Until then nobody can do any sort of contradictory measurement so we’ll be running in circles. Not to mention if there is indeed a consistency issue at least Campfire would get to the bottom of the reason for it. Really no reason not to, or do I miss something?

Given the discrepancy that is measured, this would be very apparent to anyone from an audition as well and this would have popped up already...

• The units weren't his to begin with.
  
• Manufacturer-published measurements serves as a contradictory measurement.
  
• Publishing measurement data of their own demonstrates that Campfire can show their units to be internally consistent. It also shows consumers what signature they can expect from the product, as all measurements so far has been wildly different. As far as the data shows, you're really just rolling a dice when buying a Solaris.
• People have noted discrepancies during audition. You'll find that subjective descriptions across those who have auditioned vary greatly, especially with respect to vocals.

If the units are defective, send them back.
What good does it do to anyone to hold onto "defective" units? Are they still being demoed?
Also why wasn't campfire audio contacted when this was first spotted, instead on blowing it up all over reddit like it was a tabloid scoop?
Fishy, just fishy. What these people in singapore are doing is unprofessional, and makes very little sense.

• What reason is there to contact Campfire about this? The product is not in an "alpha" or "beta" stage. The whole point of measurements is to show consumers what they're getting.
• Singapore is a giant hub for audio enthusiasts, it's not fishy at all.

 

[crinacle]

Hi all, I'll address the measurement stuff first before I dive deeper into this.

To reiterate on what is going on, around 10th December the Singaporean distributor for Campfire received the first Solaris demo units on the island. This was the first unit I've tried and measured and named "Sample 1" for simplicity. A few days later, two other dealers that I frequent also received theirs which I have also tested. Just looking at the measured data alone, the three were very clearly different. All three were measured with small sized spiral dot tips with an external canal simulator (outlined in IEC60318-4) which puts the IEM a few mm above reference plane, but all have been targeted at a 8000Hz resonance peak (or as close as possible). Other tips were tested as well to account for that kind of variation but were not published as a standalone post so as not to confuse readers. I posted the data for the first and second samples within a few days of testing.

However due to the differences observed, I held onto the third sample data (and variance data) for weeks. In those weeks, I went back to each shop and had all 3 samples re-tested constantly, accounting for both burn-in effects as well as significant human error. It was not until yesterday (almost 20 days after the first test was performed) did I feel confident enough to post about this variation to my own personal subreddit. It wasn't even on the larger subreddits, neither did I post it to Head-Fi.

To be absolutely clear, channel matching in each individual pair of Solarises were fine.

---

Now, it would be wise to completely ignore measurements and address the real issue: I have listened to and identified differences between Solaris units. And the bigger question is, since there are a few people who are waiting for my "real" impressions on this IEM, which is the representative? Do I take the "average" or do I take the best performing unit? My personal question to Ken and the Campfire team is which unit represents the Solaris' true signature.

Campfire has semi-reached out to me and requested another re-test of all the units once again. I would happily oblige, but unfortunately I have left the country and won't be back for another half a year. However, what I can do is to have the Australian demo units tested as well. I'll update in the next week or so.

 

[chickenmoon]

Objectively speaking, the only way to resolve this whole dispute is for CA show their own measurements - consistent ones, across units. If you trust your product, this should not be a problem. You already have the measurements, as you mentioned. And the community as a whole would be far better off if more manufacturers publicized their measurements.

Consistency between units has unfortunately not been addressed at all in Campfire's latest post, all that's been seriously said regards channel matching per unit and I can only take their conclusion that units sound as they should as units having no channel unbalance and not as being consistent with each other as they seem to want us to believe.

The need to measure and match left and right per unit so that they are within no more 1dB discrepancy indicates that discrepancies between units are greater than that. By how much exactly at the maximum is anyone's guess at this point.