BGVP discussion thread DM7/ DM6/DMG and NEW BA series

[perfecious]

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[MariusAB]

Well well ... it explains much, why we hear what we hear and what hbb said he hears. Much to think about. Can't be so big difference from unit to unit. But if it's real, then ..what a nice info you gave us

 

[archy121]

@perfecious sorry but i think you are making too much of a jump in your conclusion with what little you have to go by.

There are too many factors that create variances which your conclusion can not take account of.

You must be careful not to accidentally start scare mongering based on very little satisfactory evidence.

 

[Redcarmoose]

One thing I have noticed is a slight distortion on the right channel at the beginning of this song, hearing it in 192/24. At first I thought maybe my right DM6 was rattling, so then I switched to another pair with a different set of 4.4mm balanced cables and the artifact was still there. Not noticeable with my other IEMs. Not sure of what this is? Though I will keep exploring what it could be. It could actually be in the recording but not picked up on other IEMs?

 

[perfecious]

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[mr.karmalicious]

I don't think what I have is "little". What we have here, is two different guys, using the same rig, with the same IEM, having very different experiences

they also do have slightly different setups and possibly more importantly, different ears and different tastes.

 

[archy121]

@perfecious that’s why I said “accidentally”.
Some might read your interpretation as gospel without much tech understandings themselves.

I believe it can be very damaging to insinuate a manufacture may be responsible for driver variance due to QC etc . I noticed you highlighted in cable later.

I don’t think the two graphs alone from none scientific lab environment (HBB I believe has just has started out with his rig) are enough to make such a statement that could have very damaging affect to manufacturer.
More caution is required when making such strong statements imo.

@Redcarmoose I just listened to that track on Tidal (16/44) and did not pickup right channel distortion (LGV30-3.5mm NB).

I can try again with 24/192 if you can give the exact timing of that noise you hear.

 

[ryaneagon]

Just want to give my personal opinion using the DM6's for a couple months with stock cable with the WM1Z, and about 3 weeks using ALO Reference 8 - 4.4mm balanced WM1Z.

I've used the ALO cable for over a year with a set of 846's, finally decided to add it to the DM6's. I don't use any processing (direct mode) with the 846's, I love their sound signature with the ALO 8.

Using the stock DM6 cable I had to add and subtract via eq, About 3db at 1 & 2k Subtracted 2-3db at 8 &16k. After adding the ALO 8 cable to the DM6's I was able to leave the WM1Z on direct mode.

Long story short Reference 8 gives the DM6's Even and balanced sound, fantastic lows, mids and highs. It sounds like I am getting the whole dynamic range at a great resolution, warming up the mids and highs.

I ordered the Linsoul "Supreme 7N OCC Silver Plated Cable" (4.4 balanced) when I ordered the DM6's as well https://www.linsoul.com/product-page/Linsoul-7NOCC-Cable I've yet to use this cable, I'll get around to comparing this cable with the stock and Reference 8.

Cheers!

 

[Redcarmoose]

@perfecious that’s why I said “accidentally”.
Some might read your interpretation as gospel without much tech understandings themselves.

I believe it can be very damaging to insinuate a manufacture may be responsible for driver variance due to QC etc . I noticed you highlighted in cable later.

I don’t think the two graphs alone from none scientific lab environment (HBB I believe has just has started out with his rig) are enough to make such a statement that could have very damaging affect to manufacturer.
More caution is required when making such strong statements imo.

@Redcarmoose I just listened to that track on Tidal (16/44) and did not pickup right channel distortion (LGV30-3.5mm NB).

I can try again with 24/192 if you can give the exact timing of that noise you hear.

I will go deeper into the artifact tomorrow, as I was using the Sony TA desktop and don’t have access to it now. The other thing is the TA is doing DSD converting on the fly which is like an upscale of sorts and it may be from that. I normally listen to the DM6 with my Walkmans. But I spend a ton of time with them like at least 14 hours a week, and have never noticed anything like that distortion. I’m not looking for weaknesses in any way. But once in a while if I ever hear anything out of the ordinary, it’s surprising. Plus that album and particularly that song segment is one of my test tracks which I will use to demo my full-size headphones for friends who stop by; so I’m pretty familiar with the recording. But again you never know, as different headphones and different IEMs CAN make areas of a recording sound noticeable? But things like that are fascinating to me as they are rare. It’s such a big artifact, and I was able to replicate it two times in a row with two different pairs of DM6 IEMs, also using two different brands of aftermarket cables, no less.

 

[Redcarmoose]

I don't think what I have is "little". What we have here, is two different guys, using the same rig, with the same IEM, having very different experiences, which is the same as you or me getting the "Crinacle experience", while HBB has the great experience, which can cause actuall problems and even distrust. That's what the community should be careful about IMHO.

Also, tube length and tip-difference won't create these huge "phase shifts", that we all see on the graphs. Which again - my "non-definitive" conclusion would be - the cable. And I'm trying to do the exact opposite of "scare mongering". I want people to try the DM6 with different cables at least, which I'm 98% sure is where the differences come from, before they jump off and sell their DM6, which it would appear to be severely affected by the crappy SPC (gray mixed) cable. That's all I wanted from the very beginning. I'm actually considering sending my SPC cable (if I get it with my DM6) to HBB, so that he can test his DM6 with it. His stock cable was actually the white one, which many people said it was better, so even If he measures it (as some people have requested), it will not be very telling. I'm actually curious what cable Crin had when he measured the DM6 (if he can remember), but... anyway.

That's it. Now I'm going to sleep, because I'm almost dead from exhaustion.

Graphs have always caused a little confusion at Head-Fi. They are really meant to be secondary to subjective listening but can give further insight to what we hear. There is no perfect IEM or headphone, only variations of getting close. I’m not sure myself if the modifications from a cable changeout can be drastic enough to show up on a response graph, though you do have a group here at Head-Fi that believe everything you hear can be represented in a test graph. It would be nice if everyone was on the same page of satisfaction after a DM6 purchase; though I’m pretty sure no headphone or IEM has ever reached such status in Head-Fi history so far?

Just want to give my personal opinion using the DM6's for a couple months with stock cable with the WM1Z, and about 3 weeks using ALO Reference 8 - 4.4mm balanced WM1Z.

I've used the ALO cable for over a year with a set of 846's, finally decided to add it to the DM6's. I don't use any processing (direct mode) with the 846's, I love their sound signature with the ALO 8.

Using the stock DM6 cable I had to add and subtract via eq, About 3db at 1 & 2k Subtracted 2-3db at 8 &16k. After adding the ALO 8 cable to the DM6's I was able to leave the WM1Z on direct mode.

Long story short Reference 8 gives the DM6's Even and balanced sound, fantastic lows, mids and highs. It sounds like I am getting the whole dynamic range at a great resolution, warming up the mids and highs.

I ordered the Linsoul "Supreme 7N OCC Silver Plated Cable" (4.4 balanced) when I ordered the DM6's as well https://www.linsoul.com/product-page/Linsoul-7NOCC-Cable I've yet to use this cable, I'll get around to comparing this cable with the stock and Reference 8.

Cheers!

That’s a beautiful thing to read and I wholeheartedly concur. Cables are the route to folks being happy. I still am waiting for a pure copper cable for my 1Z/DM6 combo but the current OFC silver plated cable is great and gets the DM6 into the musically enjoyable zone.

 

[archy121]

I will go deeper into the artifact tomorrow, as I was using the Sony TA desktop and don’t have access to it now. The other thing is the TA is doing a DSD conversation which is like an upscale of sorts and it may be from that. I normally listen to the DM6 with my Walkmans. But I spend a ton of time with them like at least 14 hours a week, and have never noticed anything like that distortion. I’m not looking for weaknesses in any way. But once in a while if I ever hear anything out of the ordinary, it’s surprising. Plus that album and particularly that song segment is one of my test tracks which I will use to demo my full-size headphones for friends who stop by; so I’m pretty familiar with the recording. But again you never know, as different headphones and different IEMs CAN make areas of a recording sound noticeable? But things like that are fascinating to me as they are rare. It’s such a big artifact, and I was able to replicate it two times in a row with two different pairs of DM6 IEMs, also using two different brands of aftermarket cables, no less.

Earlier today I had foobar2000 producing distortion with just one particular track when the SOX resampler was left set to 2x.
Soon as I manually adjusted it to 96khz everything was fine. I think it’s the same thing you experienced.

And that Dark Knight Rises is a fantastic demo album. Personally I prefer the Dark Knight (OST) - Why So Serious 24/192. Gets me right on the edge with the right setup. Some real crazy ambient sounds in their that come through well on the DM6. Sounds I haven’t picked up before.
Also great sub bass test around 3:27 onwards.

 

[rendyG]

I don't think what I have is "little". What we have here, is two different guys, using the same rig, with the same IEM, having very different experiences, which is the same as you or me getting the "Crinacle experience", while HBB has the great experience, which can cause actuall problems and even distrust. That's what the community should be careful about IMHO.

Also, tube length and tip-difference won't create these huge "phase shifts", that we all see on the graphs. Which again - my "non-definitive" conclusion would be - the cable. And I'm trying to do the exact opposite of "scare mongering". I want people to try the DM6 with different cables at least, which I'm 98% sure is where the differences come from, before they jump off and sell their DM6, which it would appear to be severely affected by the crappy SPC (gray mixed) cable. That's all I wanted from the very beginning. I'm actually considering sending my SPC cable (if I get it with my DM6) to HBB, so that he can test his DM6 with it. His stock cable was actually the white one, which many people said it was better, so even If he measures it (as some people have requested), it will not be very telling. I'm actually curious what cable Crin had when he measured the DM6 (if he can remember), but... anyway.

That's it. Now I'm going to sleep, because I'm almost dead from exhaustion.

I like how much effort and thought you are putting into this, however you can´t "rescale" the graps and compare them one to another like this.
As much as I would like it to work like that, it just doesn´t. Measurements are much more complicated and, as you know, every fraction of the milimetre and not only that can make a noticeable difference.

For demonstration, let me quote my old post with my measurement. I was using random cheap uncalibrated mic in vinyl tubing, however I´m not that far from the "correct" curve. At the end I don´t care, as I use the rig just for relative comparison and possibly channel matching

Today I was playing with some filters for DM6. Settled on a rolled piece of alcohol swab in the nozzle for now.
Uncalibrated masurements included, to my surprise they are pretty close to ones from crinacle..


red - stock, light blue - with filter
Customizing treble is really simple with these alcohol swabs, just try different lengths and see which suits you the best.
I used a strip which is slightly longer than 3,5mm jack as you can see in the picture above (lazy to measure its length).

Treble is now cleaner and less distracting, however I see how someone would prefer stock treble, but I´m kinda treble sensitive.

comparison with T2 if anyone is interested..

Spoiler: DM6 vs Tinaudio T2

 

[mr.karmalicious]

Earlier today I had foobar2000 producing distortion with just one particular track when the SOX resampler was left set to 2x.
Soon as I manually adjusted it to 96khz everything was fine. I think it’s the same thing you experienced.

And that Dark Knight Rises is a fantastic demo album. Personally I prefer the Dark Knight (OST) - Why So Serious 24/192. Gets me right on the edge with the right setup. Some real crazy ambient sounds in their that come through well on the DM6. Sounds I haven’t picked up before.
Also great sub bass test around 3:27 onwards.

Wow, getting that kind of bass response--let alone with the spatial resolution it has!--really kills the old notion about BAs not being able to produce solid bass. I guess it makes some sense when you see how absolutely huge the bass BA is in the shell, though.

Edit: oh, I did want to mention that I'm definitely getting some fatigue. Based on the fact that it doesn't take too long right now, I'm guessing that it might just be because I've been listening for hours per day, and my ears are a bit tired of it...

 

[Blinxat]

Does anyone know how the DM6 sounds vs. Toneking T4?

 

[archy121]

@mr.karmalicious How many hours of usage on your DM6 and am I correct to think you have switched cables to BGVP OCC ?

I was also pleasantly surprised to find then sub bass rumble coming across so well from BA’s in the Dark Knight track. You must try it out in HiRes.
One wouldn’t know easily sub bass was from a BA in a blind test.

I found out this evening listening to Tidal Master tracks (24/192) how much the DM6 shines with HiRes material. It’s a different beast altogether.
Every random master track I played randomly sounded great and encouraged me to listen to it just for the musical ride. I guess in the evenings listening is also heightened which helps.
It really feels like listening to full sized headphones - very full bodied and rich sound. Slight niggles will hopefully sorted out with the OCC cable when it arrives.

At last I can see why some like HBB compare it to earphones many times it’s price point.